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Ellapennella

U.S.A Marine asks Americans a question

96 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Yes, I saw that too.  This is another one of those unintended consequences created by the Left, namely Obama pulling troops out of Iraq.  If we had kept our troops there for a few generations, what we are experiencing now would never have occurred.  There has been a growing unrest in the Muslim world ever since the fall of the Caliphate some 93 years agoIt began to take up a fever pitch in the 70’s and yet the leaders in the West still don’t see it.  The non-Muslim world needs to deal with it before it gets out of hand.  We could have stopped this if Carter had supported the Shah.  We could have thwarted it if Reagan had supported the Afghans after the Soviets had left.  We keep shooting ourselves in the foot because too many Prog sheeple are worried about offending illegal immigrants and non-assimilating refugees.

 

I suspect that Gromdor’s attitude he sees in Europe and South America will begin to fade as this global anti-Globalist movement begins to pick up steam as these nations see and understand the importance of sovereignty.  America will once again become the world’s leader because our President will be decisive, not divisive.  And as far as the Muslim world goes, we need to realize that the terror isn’t because of what we are doing, but because of who we are, or more accurately, who we aren’t.  And that is someone who submits to the will of Allah.

That's all it's been since they last tried this? They wanted it to rise again in the 70's? 

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13 hours ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

We should have never went to begin with...

Oh nevermind I forgot Iraq had WMDs and were behind 9-11.

It was necessary to go in.  If we hadn’t it would have been an even worse situation.  But like Carter, Obama had the initiative handed to him on a silver platter and he threw it all away.  Oh ok, so you are right – never mind.  And yes, there were WMDs.  We nabbed the most dangerous one and took it out of circulation.  For a time we had stopped both programs until Obama kick started the other.

 

Insert a Double-Triple facepalm….

 

6ef4b84872952726548fe5135e263cf4.jpg

 

6ef4b84872952726548fe5135e263cf4.jpg

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13 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I am not so sure of that. How many centuries since the English subjugated Scotland, yet there is still an independence movement  There are no occupying troops there. How many generations has Ireland been occupied by the English, yet peace is not assured in Northern Ireland even with troops.  Our nations have been associated and entangled in each other's history for a couple thousand years.  Consider how much different it would be if US troops occupied Iraq for a few generations.  It wouldn't be peaceful.

I don't know that there is evidence one way or the other, but growing nationalism in other countries could as easily breed resentment as respect.  

I was thinking about the British Raj.  After a century, they left India as the world’s largest democracy.  It was ugly at times but it succeeded in reprogramming the general mindset.  Now this would be slightly different where the British worked with the entire country.  In Iraq, it is only a portion of the Pan-Arabia nation, but between the influence we would bring into Iraq plus the economic influence in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan we would have a chance to reform at least the Sunni branch in that hundred years.

And we don’t see resentment anyway?  We can’t cower in worrying about whether nations like or hate us.  We just need to assure that they fear us.  Then in time that fear will evolved into respect or hate.  We know what to do in either case.  But the thing will be that we will dictate the action, not react to it.

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13 hours ago, Gromdor said:

I don't see having troops in other countries for decades, approving a pipeline from Canada across the US to supply oil to China, having Japan doing $50 billion in investments here, or even having resorts/golf courses in places like Scotland and the UAE as being anti-globalist.  I would go as far as to say that some of these are even anti-sovereign.  All your examples are regrets for not meddling more in another countries affairs. 

?? my examples?  I haven’t commented on any of those except for occupation, so I don’t know what you are getting at?  I can think of many more regrets for not “meddling”.  Influence and partnerships are very effective means of meddling.

 

I don't see our dear leader being particularly non-divisive either. 

He isn’t the one being divisive.  He’s fulfilling his campaign promises and he’s returning this nation back to its original concept.  Many times the cure is rejected by the body because of necrosis.  It takes time for the healthy tissue to shake off the dying cells.

 

Ninja and Merc are still at each others throats instead of singing praises of how great we are, for example. 

And this is a major concern?  I don’t see Ninja singing the praises of how great this nation is anyway.

 

Every day and every new executive order brings more protesters to the street. 

Soros is busy.  It doesn’t matter what Trump does or doesn’t do, Soros will see to it that people fill the streets.  They’ll even make things up.  There’s plenty of Fake News out there.  They don’t even try to hide it anymore, but this will come back to bite them.

 

And when I look at foreign journalism, it is usually ridicule directed at the US and Trump instead of respect. 

And that’s been any different from the last 8 years?  Obama (and Hilary) had become a joke around the world

 

Heck the only thing great so far is the SNL skits.

Well, you’re right about the skits being pretty good.  But it is also sad in that they don’t understand what they are doing.  Do you really think all this crap the Progs throw at Trump is going to change anything?  Trump is a builder and a problem solver.  He is a man of action.  When he does get this travel ban in place, it will incense the Left even more.  It’ll push them closer to self-destruction.  By the time jobs start returning, the Left will be completely impotent.  And there’s nothing they can do about it.

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This is a rather interesting discussion perhaps stemming from the notion of empathy. I do not mean sympathy nor empathic concern, just empathy. Empathy, very simply is "walking the walk of another person." Empathy is a critical thinking skill that permits insight into another's point of view, a basic survival skill. Empathy is, however, a learned skill. Granted education is far more cumbersome and time consuming than other more direct methods, but the consequences are far more liberating and less onerous than intolerance, fear, and hate. Yes, we can fight fire with fire. But, we can also fight fire by extinguishing the vile fuels that foster it.

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7 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

11 hours ago, Astra. said:

I simply don't understand why Americans and allies are even in these Middle Eastern countries. Maybe if the west had butted out in the first place, years and years ago... and stopped interfering and poking our noses in their back yard. Things would not have escalated as what we are seeing today.

First the Crusades and then European colonialism wrecked the place and it's never been right, since. A colony of European Jews planted smack in the middle of it, doesn't help, either.

I guess this just shows the failure of the American educational system :)

 

It wasn’t the Crusades first.  It was the Muslim conquest of Iberia and Anatolia that started it all.  The Crusades was just payback.  You do know that Turkey, Syria, and Lebanon were originally Christian and the faith spread not by force of arms.  Tours in 732 held the right flank and Vienna firmed the left in 1683.  Since then, it has been pushback.  Vienna was the high water mark for the Ottoman Empire and between 1800 and 1918 saw the Empire dismantled.  We are still experiencing this historical event and will be for generations to come.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

I was thinking about the British Raj.  After a century, they left India as the world’s largest democracy.  It was ugly at times but it succeeded in reprogramming the general mindset.  Now this would be slightly different where the British worked with the entire country.  In Iraq, it is only a portion of the Pan-Arabia nation, but between the influence we would bring into Iraq plus the economic influence in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan we would have a chance to reform at least the Sunni branch in that hundred years.

And we don’t see resentment anyway?  We can’t cower in worrying about whether nations like or hate us.  We just need to assure that they fear us.  Then in time that fear will evolved into respect or hate.  We know what to do in either case.  But the thing will be that we will dictate the action, not react to it.

omg dude stop with the colonialism and occupation mindset 

Edited by Avatar Samantha Ai
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I have a fever and the only cure is more facepalm.

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2 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

omg dude stop with the colonialism

OK then, let’s just nuke’em.  You have your choice of poison now.

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49 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

OK then, let’s just nuke’em.  You have your choice of poison now.

 

What about investing in infrastructure, roads, rail, transportation to schools and work, health care, then make sure they have they have these industries.

Terrorism is mainly caused by a few rich and old men exploiting poorer, younger ones who don't have good jobs, a means to provide for a family and unable to even get married in some cases.

Let us not forget neocolonialism and drones in endless and illegal wars.

We don't need poison to make America greater. And we need a president who is willing to making the world greater and not just America.

 

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12 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You know what I find objectionable about that photo?

worf never wore command red in that style of uniform, and never without his non-regulation sash of Klingonness. 

Well worf did wear red in the first season. But, Damn! you're right. Not in that style, and he would understand if he was put to death for appearing without the sash. I think it's filling in worf features in a Riker body. 

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1 hour ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

What about investing in infrastructure, roads, rail, transportation to schools and work, health care, then make sure they have they have these industries.

Why can’t they invest in and maintain these industries?  They don’t because they don’t know how to use and take care of the facilities.  The mentality is not conducive to modernity.  Yes, some of these nations have industry but they are the exception and not the rule.  This is the one thing I couldn’t stand with the Bush (43) Admin trying to bring Democracy to the ME by just having the indigenous vote.  Democracy is fine but if you are use to a Monarchal/Theocracy/Authoritative system all your life (i.e. Islam), you don’t know anything about Democracy.  The only way to learn Democracy is by emersion and that only comes by growing up in a Democracy or by the influence caused by long term occupation.

 

Terrorism is mainly caused by a few rich and old men exploiting poorer, younger ones who don't have good jobs, a means to provide for a family and unable to even get married in some cases.

OMG!!!  This is a Double-Double Triple Facepalm!  You’re a Marie Harf acolyte.  No, terrorism is not due to exploitation or disenfranchisement.  It is strictly due to the doctrine of Islam.  Most Salafists are of the middle to upper classes.

 

Let us not forget neocolonialism and drones in endless and illegal wars.

You’re just spouting meaningless sound bites.  Wars don’t have an attribute of legal/illegal.  War is just war.  I think the term started with the build up to the Iraq invasion.  The Bush Administration had gone out of their way to cross all the “t”s and dot all the “i”s so that no one could object to the invasion.  In fact, it had become the most “legal” war ever in the annuals of history.  And all wars come to an end.  The vast majority of wars are done within 10 years.  Some persons have been born during a war, lived a long life and have died before the war ended, but the war did end.

 

http://www.ifweassume.com/2014/02/we-have-always-been-at-war.html

 

We don't need poison to make America greater. And we need a president who is willing to making the world greater and not just America.

We are fighting a world of poison.  We don’t need a President to make the world great.  We need a President to make America great and the rest of the world will take care of itself.

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11 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

We'd like to keep it that way?

I'm not sure my point was clear.  I'll put it another way.  The next time a Pakistani or Saudi commits a terrorist act on US soil, are you still going to support this obviously flawed legislation? 

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12 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

But what is questionable is that Iran I think can verify documentation but they are on the list same as with Saudi, they can verify and yeah we all know they raise the Wahhabi, right?  there will have to be a re-investigation of looking into them. It seems like everything that we the people see wrong President Trump feels the same as we do about it. It's like you can count on that. 

I don't think this one action was meant to be the entire response to keeping America safe and fighting terrorism.  He's been in office less than a month.  This was a quick first response, perhaps too quick, intended to show that he meant what he said rather than to fix the problem once and for all.  If there hadn't been such a backlash and court interference perhaps we would have already seen phase two by now. 

Just thinking out loud here, but it amazes me how many people seem to think that our Constitution applies to the whole world.  The United States has been overwhelmingly generous and welcoming to citizens of every nation but that should not be construed as our obligation.  We owe them nothing.  No one has a right to come here.  No one who accepts our hospitality has a right to hate us or reject our ways.  We do have the right to choose our guests and beneficiaries.  We do have a right to impose conditions on the same.  Our first obligation is to our own citizens, including protecting our rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".  Taking in unvetted, hostile, and recalcitrant aliens from anywhere can be a threat to all of these.  Destruction comes in many forms and not all of them go boom.  A community suddenly overrun with angry, displaced people with no desire to assimilate is just as likely to be permanently changed as if it were leveled by a bomb.

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5 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Well worf did wear red in the first season. But, Damn! you're right. Not in that style, and he would understand if he was put to death for appearing without the sash. I think it's filling in worf features in a Riker body. 

I looked up everytime Worf did not have his sash and the list begins in season 2 of TNG.

So maybe it is not Worf at all but Odo sneaking onto Enterprise and got it wrong as his channeling powers are not perfected.

But ya it was a cheap Riker shop, I can see it now by the reflection and same size.

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9 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I guess this just shows the failure of the American educational system :)

 

 

 

It wasn’t the Crusades first.  It was the Muslim conquest of Iberia and Anatolia that started it all.  The Crusades was just payback.  You do know that Turkey, Syria, and Lebanon were originally Christian and the faith spread not by force of arms.  Tours in 732 held the right flank and Vienna firmed the left in 1683.  Since then, it has been pushback.  Vienna was the high water mark for the Ottoman Empire and between 1800 and 1918 saw the Empire dismantled.  We are still experiencing this historical event and will be for generations to come.

 

You can always push a beginning further back. My reference was only to the Moslem middle east and historical events leading up to modern times.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, The Butler said:

I'm not sure my point was clear.  I'll put it another way.  The next time a Pakistani or Saudi commits a terrorist act on US soil, are you still going to support this obviously flawed legislation? 

Yes. and petition for more countries to be added. A question for you. Should we punish their countries of origin, or the ones who issued their passports?

Edited by Hammerclaw

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Posted (edited)

On 2/12/2017 at 10:35 PM, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

6ef4b84872952726548fe5135e263cf4.jpg

We should have never went to begin with...

Oh nevermind I forgot Iraq had WMDs and were behind 9-11.

It's worse than that. This was a deliberate destabilization of the region to create genocide.

History will record that we probably secretly encouraged Saddam to go into Kuwait through back channels.

Iran will be next ...

 

Edited by Raptor Witness
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6 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

It's worse than that. This was a deliberate destabilization of the region to create genocide.

History will record that we probably secretly encouraged Saddam to go into Kuwait through back channels.

Iran will be next ...

 

imo Syria was also destabilized by US, Israel and Turkey to stop competing pipeline from Iran through Syria to benefit themselves and Russia 

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Real talk by Cheney there.

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14 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

imo Syria was also destabilized by US, Israel and Turkey to stop competing pipeline from Iran through Syria to benefit themselves and Russia 

Ditto Saakashvili when he's running for cover, and the man with the golden gun.

enhanced-buzz-10813-1431546628-17.jpg

I for one don't give a damn about their pipelines.  I don't even care for ours.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Yes. and petition for more countries to be added. A question for you. Should we punish their countries of origin, or the ones who issued thepir passports?

The ones who issue the passports are government employees of foreign nations.  How would the US punish them?   

My opinion is that if you are going to impose restrictions on immigration based on security risks, then those restrictions should make some sense.  

I don't believe for a second that you're missing my point here.  The countries most likely to create problems are not included in the bans.  We both know why it is so. Trade and US strategic military infrastructure require good relations with Pakistan and The House of Saud.

 

Edited by The Butler
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27 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

Real talk by Cheney there.

He once demonstrated the ability to make a sensible statement about war strategy in Iraq but don't oversell him.  He came back and promptly forgot everything he learned. 

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9 minutes ago, The Butler said:

The ones who issue the passports are government employees of foreign nations.  How would the US punish them?   

My opinion is that if you are going to impose restrictions on immigration based on security risks, then those restrictions should make some sense.  

I don't believe for a second that you're missing my point here.  The countries most likely to create problems are not included in the bans.  We both know why it is so. Trade and US strategic military infrastructure require good relations with Pakistan and The House of Saud.

 

The travelers from said countries most likely to cause problems are already being scrutinized with extreme prejudice. Of course, if they make it to Mexico they can just traipse across the border in broad daylight. I find it hard to believe you wouldn't have countries who issue passports to jihadist foreign nationals held accountable.

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11 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The travelers from said countries most likely to cause problems are already being scrutinized with extreme prejudice.

Then what's the point?   Travelers from these seven countries already weren't?  

Quote

I find it hard to believe you wouldn't have countries who issue passports to jihadist foreign nationals held accountable.

I think that's exactly what he meant in his reply to you.  

I'm more than ready for any further executive actions from Donald Trump sensible enough to put 9/11 countries of origin on the list.   I'm waiting with baited breath for Donald Trump to utter his first squeak about it since he boldly announced his support for Saudi Arabia in his AIPAC speech.

Repeatedly cites beheadings as the reason to wage war in the Middle East.   Cites 9/11 in his travel ban.  Forgets Saudi Arabia. 

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