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Scudbuster

The "Monstrosity" of Abuse

31 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

We'll probably never know the true extant of this horrid situation:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/clerical-sexual-abuse-pope-asks-forgiveness-monstrosity-book-n720196

The good name of the Family is everything.  Some "Family", eh.  Some "good name".

It's a societal problem, not just a Church problem, and it has existed for millenia.  If "grandpa" or "daddy" is touching the children, the solution is to keep the children away from "grandpa" and "daddy" and keep silent.  And for that to be, it requires the complicity of mothers and grandmothers.  How sad is that?

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What continues to amaze me is the fact that so many of today's churchgoers continue to look the other way, brush these stories off as if it's "somebody else's problem", or "it's happening far from here" etc .  I think others believe it's a "thing of the past" and no longer relevant today.

The bottom line for me - I think we have a long, long, way to go regarding both the truth about the past and the safety of our kids going forward.

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Posted (edited)

I learned a long time ago...

show the enemy NO MERCY!

May he and his demons... all burn in their own hell!

But a more fitting fate.. would be me to send them into my Evil Jar!

Edited by LostSouls7
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On 2/13/2017 at 2:58 PM, back to earth said:

I was never sexually abused at the catholic school , but there were other forms of abuse   and really stupid crazy stuff going on. 

I would come home and tell my parents and they would "  Oh dont be so silly nothing like that would be happening at that school ! " 

 

I am gonna tell this story again ... from my  Brother in Law  ( he grew up in El Salvador    ..... this is a country named  'The Saviour '  mind you ... its pretty Catholic ! )

He is mystified as to why this happens in Australia and blames also, the parents. He says  abuse of any sort would not have been tolerated by parents in his home town. If some one did abuse the kids, the kids would tell parents and they would come out rampaging at it .  here is the story ( not sexual abuse, but another kind ) ;

They had a teacher that was weird and sadistic, he used to belt the kids, some of who were, admittedly naughty. But he seemed to take a sadistic delight in it and taunted  and mocked them about it . One day he picked on this quiet kid that did nothing wrong. Strapped him severely  , bruising hands and inside wrists . 

The next day the kid turns up with his father. Dad  just happened to be high rank in the military junta ...he came in uniform with two aids ;  " Are you the teacher the strapped my son and injured him ?  I hear you do that to other boys too ? Show me you strap. " The nervous teacher did so, the father took it and motioned to the other 'aids' to hold him and hold his arms out, he got '6 of the best on each side ', then they held his arms behind his back and the father ; " Are you married ? "

"  Yes . "

"Do you have your own children ?"

" No , not yet. "

" Okay .... if I ever hear of you abusing my son, or any other boy in the class, we come back and ......  < he held the strap against his groin >  ... I strap you 'down  there'  hard   and you never have children ! "

This was in front of the class !  

No more abuse from that teacher !  

Geez, I hope that teacher never had any kids. Thank you for sharing that story. You know my position on harming a child at the level of sexual or physical abuse, or advocating corporal punishment to raise a child the person can't possibly have empathy and has no business being around kids. 

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, LostSouls7 said:

I learned a long time ago...

show the enemy NO MERCY!

May he and his demons... all burn in their own hell!

Do you think their hell is like this:

hell-05.jpg

Or this:

hellfire-club-dublin.jpglatest?cb=20070125053257

Hellfire+Club+366.jpg

Edited by Mystic Crusader
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re: " Oh dont be so silly nothing like that would be happening at that school ! " 

LOL, that's how my parents were!  No adult could ever be or do anything wrong whereas most kids were wrong and bad.  If a teacher ever had to spank me (and a few did) my dad would have spanked me even more for "upsetting" an adult!  I NEVER told by parents what went on at school or any other place! 

re: And for that to be, it requires the complicity of mothers and grandmothers.  How sad is that?

It's very sad and also very common!  Better to let the kids "get what they deserve" rather than stand up for them and get hit by your husband!  That was our mom's policy!

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Re:... I strap you 'down  there'  hard   and you never have children ! "  This was in front of the class !   No more abuse from that teacher !  

I LOVE THIS STORY!

On 2/17/2017 at 8:41 PM, Sherapy said:

Geez, I hope that teacher never had any kids. Thank you for sharing that story. You know my position on harming a child at the level of sexual or physical abuse, or advocating corporal punishment to raise a child the person can't possibly have empathy and has no business being around kids. 

I'm with you there, Sherapy.  :wub:

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, jimrich said:

Re:... I strap you 'down  there'  hard   and you never have children ! "  This was in front of the class !   No more abuse from that teacher !  

I LOVE THIS STORY!

I'm with you there, Sherapy.  :wub:

I take a strong position against corporal punishment due to an abusive childhood and just in general as an experienced mother of 3 adult men. There was never a reason or need to harm my kids as I raised them. For goodness sake, who can't out think a little one. My boys were all different, my middle was incredibly energetic, we just banded together as a family and come up with creative ways to channel his incredible zest and curiosity for life, we put him in sports really young and now he is on a full ride at University playing football. If we want respectful, empathetic human beings, and emotionally intelligent we have to model the behavior with our parenting. Of course, there will be posters who in their ignorance ( not knowing/inexperienced) will equate this to lack of discipline or letting a kid do what ever they want, but it isn't that, kids are to be parented, but it isn't nessecary to harm them in the process.

Edited by Sherapy
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

I take a strong position against corporal punishment due to an abusive childhood and just in general as an experienced mother of 3 adult men. There was never a reason or need to harm my kids as I raised them. For goodness sake, who can't out think a little one. My boys were all different, my middle was incredibly energetic, we just banded together as a family and come up with creative ways to channel his incredible zest and curiosity for life, we put him in sports really young and now he is on a full ride at University playing football. If we want respectful, empathetic human beings, and emotionally intelligent we have to model the behavior with our parenting. Of course, there will be posters who in their ignorance ( not knowing/inexperienced) will equate this to lack of discipline or letting a kid do what ever they want, but it isn't that, kids are to be parented, but it isn't nessecary to harm them in the process.

I am not a parent so my opinions on parenting are generally not accepted by most parents.  My only reference to good parenting is my own nasty childhood and the bad parenting I grew up with plus just common sense.  My current concept of parenting is about loving guidance not too much or too little CONTROL of an innocent child BUT that means the parent must be emotionally resolved and balanced which ours were not.  The issue of giving kids emotionally healthy parents has long been a cultural issue so the alternative is to let things go wherever they will and take your chances in the game of life.  My siblings did a "fair" job of parenting and their kids seem to have turned out a lot more mentally healthier than anyone prior them so perhaps Divinity has a way of fixing generational issues in it's own way.

I solute and praise you for being mature and evolved enough to put 3 mentally healthy humans into the world and wish there were more mentally healthy parents to put more healthy humans here.  I can only believe that Divinity has it's own time table for putting more and more mentally healthy folks here before humanity once again wipes itself out although that might not be the worst thing that could happen in this realm.  Since getting over the tragedy of my own childhood, I have come to see that perhaps all of this is supposed to be and that nothing was or is actually wrong here.  It's a stretch but the Spiritual answer ~ this is all meant to be, including the pain and horror!  - seems more real to me than the human answer ~ something's wrong here.  It's just a cosmic game where nobody gets hurt and all's well!  The personal ego doesn't like that answer and the impersonal Reality doesn't care!  But it's not an inhuman uncaring - it's just the way ti is.

Edited by jimrich
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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, jimrich said:

re: " Oh dont be so silly nothing like that would be happening at that school ! " 

LOL, that's how my parents were!  No adult could ever be or do anything wrong whereas most kids were wrong and bad.  If a teacher ever had to spank me (and a few did) my dad would have spanked me even more for "upsetting" an adult!  I NEVER told by parents what went on at school or any other place! 

re: And for that to be, it requires the complicity of mothers and grandmothers.  How sad is that?

It's very sad and also very common!  Better to let the kids "get what they deserve" rather than stand up for them and get hit by your husband!  That was our mom's policy!

Abuse is what a society considers abuse. In the fifties students were caned or hit with rulers, beach bats  yards sticks etc (9 and that was just my experience) No one considered this abuse IF it was a consequence of poor behaviours. There was no hint of sexual abuse in any of my schooling. My father would probably have shot anyone who sexually abused us. However like all parents of the time whom I encountered if I was for example rude or disobedient at school he would add his own reminder about how i was expected to behave. In me this bred no resentment fear or anger It was just. I understood that rudeness or disobedience were not acceptable behaviors, and would be punished, so I had a choice, and no one to blame but myself if i broke the rules.

When I was about 12 our class teacher lined the boys up on the cricket pitch and told us to kick a football as far as we could.

The three shortest kicks included me. (I was a year younger than the rest, having been put up a year early in my schooling)

We were brought back inside and told that the three shortest kickers would be hit with either a beach bat  called mercy, or a yard ruler called justice. We were asked if we wanted justice or mercy.  I asked for mercy and the belts didnt hurt too much. The others asked for justice. They put on a brave face until the split in the end of the long ruler opened up and caught their backsides. The screams and tears soon followed.

That is when I learned the difference beyween justified corporal punishment and abuse

Edited by Mr Walker

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On 2/19/2017 at 2:46 AM, Mystic Crusader said:

Do you think their hell is like this:

hell-05.jpg

Or this:

hellfire-club-dublin.jpglatest?cb=20070125053257

Hellfire+Club+366.jpg

 

Now, hang on a minute ... dont you go dissing the Hellfire Club ... well, not the original version any way ;

The Good Knights and Nuns of Sir Francis   ( not of Assisi  ... Sir Frances Dashwood :)  ) 

" Born in 1727, Wilkes, a staunch Whig, was elected to Parliament as the Member for the Borough of Aylesbury, for which it is said he worked most diligently. His membership of the Hell Fire Club was not, however, quite so successful, for shortly after he gained entry he was expelled, following a prank he played on his fellow members. During one of their black masses, Wilkes, who had grown irritated by the anti-religious pretensions of the ceremonies, released a baboon dressed up as the Devil into the congregation. The result was pandemonium, with the Earl of Sandwich shouting aloud that the Devil was upon him, while other members collapsed in fright. Finally, the poor animal escaped through a window and order was restored, '

these were British MPs back then . 

" Even so, members of the Hell Fire Club, not satisfied that they had dragged Wilkes so low that his political career could never be revived, together hatched an even more wicked plan. They hired a lowly member of the House of Commons by the name of Samuel Martin to denounce Wilkes in front of everyone as a coward and a scoundrel. The insult called for nothing less than a duel. A time and place was arranged and on November 16, 1763, the pair faced each other with pistols ...

... it goes on an on ... to near revolution !  and eventually led to changes in the parliamentary system .

 

http://erenow.com/common/the-most-evil-secret-societies-in-history/16.html

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3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I take a strong position against corporal punishment due to an abusive childhood and just in general as an experienced mother of 3 adult men. There was never a reason or need to harm my kids as I raised them. For goodness sake, who can't out think a little one. My boys were all different, my middle was incredibly energetic, we just banded together as a family and come up with creative ways to channel his incredible zest and curiosity for life, we put him in sports really young and now he is on a full ride at University playing football. If we want respectful, empathetic human beings, and emotionally intelligent we have to model the behavior with our parenting. Of course, there will be posters who in their ignorance ( not knowing/inexperienced) will equate this to lack of discipline or letting a kid do what ever they want, but it isn't that, kids are to be parented, but it isn't nessecary to harm them in the process.

 

I once heard a wise man say  " I judge a man on how he treats a dog . "   ;)  

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2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Abuse is what a society considers abuse. In the fifties students were caned or hit with rulers, beach bats  yards sticks etc (9 and that was just my experience) No one considered this abuse IF it was a consequence of poor behaviours. There was no hint of sexual abuse in any of my schooling. My father would probably have shot anyone who sexually abused us. However like all parents of the time whom I encountered if I was for example rude or disobedient at school he would add his own reminder about how i was expected to behave. In me this bred no resentment fear or anger It was just. I understood that rudeness or disobedience were not acceptable behaviors, and would be punished, so I had a choice, and no one to blame but myself if i broke the rules.

When I was about 12 our class teacher lined the boys up on the cricket pitch and told us to kick a football as far as we could.

The three shortest kicks included me. (I was a year younger than the rest, having been put up a year early in my schooling)

We were brought back inside and told that the three shortest kickers would be hit with either a beach bat  called mercy, or a yard ruler called justice. We were asked if we wanted justice or mercy.  I asked for mercy and the belts didnt hurt too much. The others asked for justice. They put on a brave face until the split in the end of the long ruler opened up and caught their backsides. The screams and tears soon followed.

That is when I learned the difference beyween justified corporal punishment and abuse

There is no difference between corporal punishment and abuse. 

This was very painful to read. 

MW, what concerns me is you think that it was acceptable for an adult to do this to children.

 

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1 hour ago, back to earth said:

 

I once heard a wise man say  " I judge a man on how he treats a dog . "   ;)  

Amen BTE.

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On 2/13/2017 at 1:54 PM, back to earth said:

If he wants forgiveness he can stop lying and protecting pedophiles and Pelophiles ..... otherwise he can burn in his own hell . 

That's right. For all the lip service, he's still protecting them.

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I know he has to tow the line and spout off about forgiveness. That said, there also needs to be accountability for predators...and honestly, that's what they are. They aren't "clergy who have been affected by evil." Nice try at turning the perpetrator into the victim. They're predators who sought out these positions of power and access to children. 

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11 hours ago, Sherapy said:

There is no difference between corporal punishment and abuse. 

This was very painful to read. 

MW, what concerns me is you think that it was acceptable for an adult to do this to children.

 

I also grew up in the late '40s-'50s area where anything an adult wanted to do to any child was A-OK and there were almost no limits on what was labeled "justifiable or well deserved punishments".  Paddling was very popular as well as smacking with a ruler and just about any "misbehavior" of any kid (except the Teacher's pet) could easily bring what was deemed adequate CORRECTIONS.   Of course I now recognize that what most adults did to kids was simply a sadistic act of selfishness and ego satisfaction or REVENGE.  As Mr. Walker stated, the culture of that time had its own very sick and distorted concept of what abuse was and was not and the term very rarely ever applied to mere children.  In many cases, animals got better treatment than kids because animals were deemed to be more important and more lovable than kids.  As much as folks whine about CPS, IMO, it's the best thing that ever happened for kids who have no legal power at all.

 

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10 hours ago, jimrich said:

I also grew up in the late '40s-'50s area where anything an adult wanted to do to any child was A-OK and there were almost no limits on what was labeled "justifiable or well deserved punishments".  Paddling was very popular as well as smacking with a ruler and just about any "misbehavior" of any kid (except the Teacher's pet) could easily bring what was deemed adequate CORRECTIONS.   Of course I now recognize that what most adults did to kids was simply a sadistic act of selfishness and ego satisfaction or REVENGE.  As Mr. Walker stated, the culture of that time had its own very sick and distorted concept of what abuse was and was not and the term very rarely ever applied to mere children.  In many cases, animals got better treatment than kids because animals were deemed to be more important and more lovable than kids.  As much as folks whine about CPS, IMO, it's the best thing that ever happened for kids who have no legal power at all.

 

True, children were to be seen and not heard. I agree about CPS! An integral step of healing from childhood abuse is the willingness to see it for what it was to often abused kids grow into adult survivors of abuse and think they deserved to be maltreated and can't hold their parents accountable instead they take the responsibility for the adults behavior and this is how the sickness gets passed on. 

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The reasoning goes like this:  My elders say that I deserved to be: hit, beaten, paddled, slapped, ridiculed, humiliated, shamed, condemned, etc. so therefore so do you (their own child) - WHACK!.  It's revenge going in the wrong direction!   As tough and competent as my parents were, they NEVER would have taken their anger and frustrations back to their own parents - where it belonged!!!!  So that left just their kids and pets to take it all out on - and they did!!!!

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Wheel of negative karma stops here !   

Stop trying to  justify abuse with discipline    .... whoever  !  

 

Related image

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9 hours ago, jimrich said:

The reasoning goes like this:  My elders say that I deserved to be: hit, beaten, paddled, slapped, ridiculed, humiliated, shamed, condemned, etc. so therefore so do you (their own child) - WHACK!.  It's revenge going in the wrong direction!   As tough and competent as my parents were, they NEVER would have taken their anger and frustrations back to their own parents - where it belonged!!!!  So that left just their kids and pets to take it all out on - and they did!!!!

Exactly, lack of understanding of a child's development, lack of maturity ( for me, if an adult is hitting a child or plans to use corporal punishment as a tool for discipline in parenting they are emotionally and mentally immature. To use physical and verbal abuse at the expense of a child shows lack of empathy. 

Edited by Sherapy
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Re: " they are emotionally and mentally immature" - LOL, I'd say they're  INSANE!

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