Putin, Trump and blackmail

[Frank Merton]

How ironic things can be sometimes.  The Russians were so clever manipulating news and putting out lies about the Clintons a manipulating so-called "investigations" by the FBI that they got their man elected.  We now know that the Trump people and the Russians were in almost constant contact (check almost any major newspaper).

What were these contacts about if not how to get Trump elected?  In the process the Americans are bound to have said things and given the Russians information that is now highly black-mailable.  

But what can they use it for?  If now Trump does things in Russia's favor, what will America think?  They will think either Trump is a Russian puppet or that they are blackmailing him.  So Russia doesn't dare.  Trump is somewhat trapped into taking a different line.  He can't hand over the Crimea to Russia, or help them in Syria, or even withdraw from Poland.  Everyone will not just wonder but wonder out loud -- loudly -- and rightly so.

[GlitterRose]

It really surprised me that no one who mattered seemed to be able to notice what was so blatantly obvious. And of course, that didn't make me too confident of our FBI, etc. 

[GlitterRose]

Honestly, I was thinking...what...are they all selling us out? Did everyone make some closed door deal we don't know about? 

[Frank Merton]

2 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Honestly, I was thinking...what...are they all selling us out? Did everyone make some closed door deal we don't know about? 

Although I had at first thought the Russian activity was on their own initiative and the Trump people would be careful to keep them well distant, getting the benefit of what the Russians were doing but not taking any risk.  

It seems Trump etal are a lot dumber than that, and actually maintained contacts on an ongoing basis.  It could have been innocent ("How ya doin'") and so on, but that seems unlikely.  Now we have to wonder seriously about Trump loyalty to the US.  (Actually I would be more inclined to put it down to incompetence or insanity).

 

[GlitterRose]

1 minute ago, Frank Merton said:

Although I had at first thought the Russian activity was on their own initiative and the Trump people would be careful to keep them well distant, getting the benefit of what the Russians were doing but not taking any risk.  

It seems Trump etal are a lot dumber than that, and actually maintained contacts on an ongoing basis.  It could have been innocent ("How ya doin'") and so on, but that seems unlikely.  Now we have to wonder seriously about Trump loyalty to the US.  (Actually I would be more inclined to put it down to incompetence or insanity).

 

We're wondering?

Trump is loyal only to Trump.

[Frank Merton]

1 minute ago, ChaosRose said:

We're wondering?

Trump is loyal only to Trump.

Well, yes, but also lacking any sense.

[acidhead]

Just curious...

Hypothetically speaking, if it is true the Russian GOV hacked the Democrats emails(all lies as you suggest) and it helped Trump and the Republican party to win the Federal election.....

What is the overall Plot?

To be clear:

What is the grand scheme moving forward now that the Russian spy Donald Trump is POTUS?

[Clarakore]

22 minutes ago, acidhead said:

Just curious...

Hypothetically speaking, if it is true the Russian GOV hacked the Democrats emails(all lies as you suggest) and it helped Trump and the Republican party to win the Federal election.....

What is the overall Plot?

To be clear:

What is the grand scheme moving forward now that the Russian spy Donald Trump is POTUS?

For Russia it would be a victory causing chaos and upheaval in America at worst or doubt and consternation at best.

It is their scheme not ours. We just have to deal with the fallout. Together or going against each other. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Avatar Samantha Ai

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Honestly, I was thinking...what...are they all selling us out? Did everyone make some closed door deal we don't know about? 

So we are to believe that a media that is hell-bent on taking Trump down, now has acquired a smoking gun and impeachment is a foregone conclusion except there is some strange, inexplicable cabal that is keeping the evidence from seeing the light of day?  Or maybe the evidence hasn't been put forward because there is none?

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case, the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also more generally.

Enjoy the drama.  I'll wait until the actual evidence is produced.

[Clarakore]

6 minutes ago, and then said:

So we are to believe that a media that is hell-bent on taking Trump down, now has acquired a smoking gun and impeachment is a foregone conclusion except there is some strange, inexplicable cabal that is keeping the evidence from seeing the light of day?  Or maybe the evidence hasn't been put forward because there is none?

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case, the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also more generally.

Enjoy the drama.  I'll wait until the actual evidence is produced.

Chill out. New assumptions are not being made on the original premise alone but variations of them as new information is revealed.

Can't help going back to the original one: Trump was in cahoots with Russia to help win the election.

And do wait until the actual evidence is provided. We are all waiting with you. As some assume the worst, with good cause,  others such as yourself will naysay at each step.

When and if the evidence comes I doubt the naysayers will join us on this issue. So unsure what you are waiting for exactly but we are all waiting.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Avatar Samantha Ai

[acidhead]

14 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

For Russia it would be a victory causing chaos and upheaval in America at worst or doubt and consternation at best.

It is their scheme not ours. We just have to deal with the fallout. Together or going against each other. 

Then what? After America is in this chaos and upheaval as you suggest... then what? What is the Russian plan after that?

[+and-then]

4 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

So unsure what you are waiting for exactly but we are all waiting.

Perhaps, something other than accusations without proof?  If there is actual proof that I'm unaware of then I'd like to see it.  The NYT posted a story last October about Trump campaign people being in touch with the Russians.  They repeated it yesterday or the day before but buried in the story was the caveat that there was no evidence of collusion or illegality of any kind.  THAT from the New York Times.  Now we have foolish Democrat shills like Pelosi and Iron Man Cummins, yelling about fake tweets and asking "what did he know and when did he know it", the whole thing has reached a point of hysteria.  If this president colluded or had his people collude with the Russians to dump Podesta's emails, I'm not sure even THAT is evidence of stealing an election.  But if he or his people actually did that, I'd call for his head, also.  Mind you, I'd expect a confession OR solid, incontrovertible proof.  You can be sure that as soon as that proof is found, he'll be OTD.  Meanwhile, I hope the leakers are found and prosecuted.

[Clarakore]

8 minutes ago, acidhead said:

Then what? After America is in this chaos and upheaval as you suggest... then what? What is the Russian plan after that?

The Russians probably do not have a master plan. They have caused enough damage as is. Trump should have never asked if they were listening and to hack Hill's emails. Either he knew they were or the Russians and the dossier compilers used this to their advantage to see the seeds or better yet weeds.

When peeing in someone's soup you don't really care about what happens next. 

 

5 minutes ago, and then said:

Perhaps, something other than accusations without proof?  If there is actual proof that I'm unaware of then I'd like to see it.  The NYT posted a story last October about Trump campaign people being in touch with the Russians.  They repeated it yesterday or the day before but buried in the story was the caveat that there was no evidence of collusion or illegality of any kind.  THAT from the New York Times.  Now we have foolish Democrat shills like Pelosi and Iron Man Cummins, yelling about fake tweets and asking "what did he know and when did he know it", the whole thing has reached a point of hysteria.  If this president colluded or had his people collude with the Russians to dump Podesta's emails, I'm not sure even THAT is evidence of stealing an election.  But if he or his people actually did that, I'd call for his head, also.  Mind you, I'd expect a confession OR solid, incontrovertible proof.  You can be sure that as soon as that proof is found, he'll be OTD.  Meanwhile, I hope the leakers are found and prosecuted.

Well we shall see if Trumpet's tunes change if and when your threshold of proof is met.

And of course you would want these leaders charged with a crime. Had they been leaking about the O or H would you still feel the same? 

[Astra.]

As far as I am concerned - this 'reeks' of possible cover up's in regards to Russia... Flynn's swift resignation....Trump blaming the media yet again...and him dodging important questions asked by the media... in which the public have a right to know.

I am sick and tired of Trump blaming the 'evil' media on everything that goes against his agenda. He keeps using this pathetic tactic..to divert from important issues...in where, imo he is hiding things.

Why are there so many questions, and none are being properly addressed ?

There seems to be smoke and mirrors being flung around...left..right...and centre, so as to cause distraction and try and sweep this Flynn / Russian business under the carpet. There has been so many conflicting comments from the WH...it's enough to make ones head spin.

Indeed, I think the corrupt tentacles of this Russian / Trump affair may run very, very deep...and Flynn knows a lot more about this than he is allowed able to say.

I think that Trump had to 'let Flynn go'...because he became a liability since these leaks became known...hence, Donald Trump needing to come out smelling like a bunch of roses.

Basically, I feel that Flynn may have been used as the 'fall guy' so to speak....to take the heat away from Trump (as there being any possible connections between Russia / Trump concerning the past election ?)....hence Flynn's sudden (no questions asked) departure.

 

[acidhead]

1 minute ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

The Russians probably do not have a master plan. They have caused enough damage as is. Trump should have never asked if they were listening and to hack Hill's emails. Either he knew they were or the Russians and the dossier compilers used this to their advantage to see the seeds or better yet weeds.

When peeing in someone's soup you don't really care about what happens next. 

 

 

So that's it?  Simply watch America in chaos and upheaval and it was for nothing.  No master plan?

Lol

Im sorry, but not really, that is a laughable explaination of why Russia would want Trump as POTUS.

Just one massive troll, huh?

 

[Clarakore]

29 minutes ago, and then said:

Perhaps, something other than accusations without proof?  If there is actual proof that I'm unaware of then I'd like to see it.  The NYT posted a story last October about Trump campaign people being in touch with the Russians.  They repeated it yesterday or the day before but buried in the story was the caveat that there was no evidence of collusion or illegality of any kind.  THAT from the New York Times.  Now we have foolish Democrat shills like Pelosi and Iron Man Cummins, yelling about fake tweets and asking "what did he know and when did he know it", the whole thing has reached a point of hysteria.  If this president colluded or had his people collude with the Russians to dump Podesta's emails, I'm not sure even THAT is evidence of stealing an election.  But if he or his people actually did that, I'd call for his head, also.  Mind you, I'd expect a confession OR solid, incontrovertible proof.  You can be sure that as soon as that proof is found, he'll be OTD.  Meanwhile, I hope the leakers are found and prosecuted.

BTW Mr. Hysteria. jk and then

But Trump, Pence & Spicer all denied there was contact between the Trump campaign and Russia. Then it turned out there was.

This is recent and new. If you are not concerned now about their lies then unsure if hard incontrovertible evidence will away you.

[+and-then]

2 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

The Russians probably do not have a master plan. They have caused enough damage as is. Trump should have never asked if they were listening and to hack Hill's emails. Either he knew they were or the Russians and the dossier compilers used this to their advantage to see the seeds or better yet weeds.

When peeing in someone's soup you don't really care about what happens next. 

 

Well we shall see if Trumpet's tunes change if and when your threshold of proof is met.

And of course you would want these leaders charged with a crime. Had they been leaking about the O or H would you still feel the same? 

 

If they were leaking classified SECRETS, yes.  John Podesta's emails were just embarrassing.  They weren't top secret info.  This whole "look the other way" when laws are being broken for political expediency is B.S.!  Supposedly the source for Flynn's downfall was a partial transcript of his phone conversation with a Russian ambassador.  WHO would have access to such a transcript?  HOW did it come to a reporter's attention?  We are talking about NSA/CIA level info here.  If our spooks are leaking then damned right, they need to be NAILED TO A WALL.  The America you people want isn't acceptable to those of us who grew up here over the past 60 years.  We will FIGHT to keep our country.  Will you?  That's where this is headed.

[+and-then]

Just now, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

BTW Mr. Hysteria. jk and then

But Trump, Pence & Spicer all denied there was contact between the Trump campaign and Russia. Then it turned out there was.

This is recent and new. If you are not concerned now about their lies then unsure if hard incontrovertible evidence will away you.

 

Where is the evidence?  Do you have some insight that the NYT is lacking?

[Clarakore]

2 minutes ago, acidhead said:

So that's it?  Simply watch America in chaos and upheaval and it was for nothing.  No master plan?

Lol

Im sorry, but not really, that is a laughable explaination of why Russia would want Trump as POTUS.

Just one massive troll, huh?

 

I should have just posted that as it did come to mind that Russia is trolling us.

Next thing you know they will be Rick rolling us too.

[Clarakore]

2 minutes ago, and then said:

Where is the evidence?  Do you have some insight that the NYT is lacking?

Evidence that they lied of no contact when it has been revealed there was contact? 

Or do you think NYT is lying? 

[Frank Merton]

1 hour ago, acidhead said:

Just curious...

Hypothetically speaking, if it is true the Russian GOV hacked the Democrats emails(all lies as you suggest) and it helped Trump and the Republican party to win the Federal election.....

What is the overall Plot?

To be clear:

What is the grand scheme moving forward now that the Russian spy Donald Trump is POTUS?

That's hard to say -- there are hundreds of possibilities.  However, the issue is not the spying on the Democrats but the cooperation between Putin and the Republicans.  This is what makes people uneasy -- at least people who don't trust Putin.

[Frank Merton]

There are a number of things Trump was expected to do where he has backed off.  Recognizing the occupation of Crimea, helping the Russians in Syria and endorsing their activity there, lifting the trade sanctions, looking the other way at misbehavior in Ukraine as Russia re-annexes it, and so on.  These now will be difficult for Trump and Putin to do.

[acidhead]

6 minutes ago, Astra. said:

As far as I am concerned - this 'reeks' of possible cover up's in regards to Russia... Flynn's swift resignation....Trump blaming the media yet again...and him dodging important questions asked by the media... in which the public have a right to know.

I am sick and tired of Trump blaming the 'evil' media on everything that goes against his agenda. He keeps using this pathetic tactic..to divert from important issues...in where, imo he is hiding things.

Why are there so many questions, and none are being properly addressed ?

There seems to be smoke and mirrors being flung around...left..right...and centre, so as to cause distraction and try and sweep this Flynn / Russian business under the carpet. There has been so many conflicting comments from the WH...it's enough to make ones head spin.

Indeed, I think the corrupt tentacles of this Russian / Trump affair may run very, very deep...and Flynn knows a lot more about this than he is allowed able to say.

I think that Trump had to 'let Flynn go'...because he became a liability since these leaks became known...hence, Donald Trump needing to come out smelling like a bunch of roses.

Basically, I feel that Flynn may have been used as the 'fall guy' so to speak....to take the heat away from Trump (as there being any possible connections between Russia / Trump concerning the past election ?)....hence Flynn's sudden (no questions asked) departure.

 

It's important to understand that if what Flynn said to the Russian Ambassador was so damning why wasn't he charged with a crime?

This Trump cannot control.  What he could control was keeping Flynn around as somebody he could trust to do his job in the future.

Tske from that what you will but incompetence is kind of important in any business never mind a government job as important as Flynns position.

Again, if Flynn incriminated himself he'd already be charged.  Not sure how any thinking individual cannot understand this.

 

[acidhead]

 

7 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

That's hard to say -- there are hundreds of possibilities.  However, the issue is not the spying on the Democrats but the cooperation between Putin and the Republicans.  This is what makes people uneasy -- at least people who don't trust Putin.

Okay... what are a few possibilities in the plan Frank?

Lol

[Frank Merton]

2 minutes ago, acidhead said:

 

Okay... what are a few possibilities in the plan Frank?

Lol

There are a number of things Trump was expected to do where he has backed off.  Recognizing the occupation of Crimea, helping the Russians in Syria and endorsing their activity there, lifting the trade sanctions, looking the other way at misbehavior in Ukraine as Russia re-annexes it, and so on.  These now will be difficult for Trump and Putin to do. (From message 22)