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Congress may shift climate research from NASA


Claire.

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Congress May Shift Climate Research Away from NASA

Lawmakers are remaking NASA in order to leave parts of the agency’s earth science program untouched but remove its climate change research.

It’s still unclear exactly how lawmakers plan to transform NASA’s mission, but Republicans and Trump administration officials have said they want the agency to focus on deep-space missions and away from climate change research, which is a part of its Earth Sciences Division. That has created uncertainty about the fate of the Earth Sciences Division, which accounts for about $2 billion of NASA’s $20 billion budget.

Read more: Scientific Amerian

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I've worked on earth science for NASA. That being said, it was earth science done on Mars. I tend to view the NASA mission ideal as exploratory. Mission creep has turned their focus on Earth. But...we've got NOAA.

I think moving that budget and research away from NASA is a good thing. Staying goal oriented is important.

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6 hours ago, Socks Junior said:

I've worked on earth science for NASA. That being said, it was earth science done on Mars. I tend to view the NASA mission ideal as exploratory. Mission creep has turned their focus on Earth. But...we've got NOAA.

I think moving that budget and research away from NASA is a good thing. Staying goal oriented is important.

That would have been a good idea during another administration, but this one will likely try to render impotent and/or destroy NASA's work related to climate.

I get the impression that the folks trying to do this have no clue how much different specialties overlap.  They will find it impossible to totally shut down climate research without destroying both NOAA and NASA.  And then there's the USFS, USDA and USDI that also do work related to climate (Climate affects both crops and trees and cows.).

Doug

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7 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

That would have been a good idea during another administration, but this one will likely try to render impotent and/or destroy NASA's work related to climate.

That may be. We shall see.

7 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

I get the impression that the folks trying to do this have no clue how much different specialties overlap.  They will find it impossible to totally shut down climate research without destroying both NOAA and NASA.  And then there's the USFS, USDA and USDI that also do work related to climate (Climate affects both crops and trees and cows.).

I'm interested as to why you think that refining NASA's mission focus would destroy it. I also doubt that climate research will be completely shut down. Sure, the political slant given to the research in federal agencies may change, but the work will still get done.

 

 

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On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 3:29 PM, Socks Junior said:

That may be. We shall see.

I'm interested as to why you think that refining NASA's mission focus would destroy it. I also doubt that climate research will be completely shut down. Sure, the political slant given to the research in federal agencies may change, but the work will still get done.

 

 

The Trmp administration has already tried to shut down climate-related sites at EPA, the Agricultural Research Service and National Park Service.  People at these agencies have found ways to circumvent the order, or in one case, have defied it.  I think they will withdraw, retrench and try again.  This battle is just beginning.

It is NASA's climate work that would be destroyed, not the agency, itself.  Sharpening its focus might help it do a better job in space - maybe.  But there are some climate studies for which NASA is uniquely qualified.  I suspect NASA will defend its climate work by turning the records over to a university before the order to destroy them comes down.

And, I agree, most of the work will still get done.  Studying weather requires one to look more than 30 years back and that means we're talking about climate.  I produce two or three new chronologies a year in my forestry work - those chronologies can be used in climate work.  I am planning a look at the seasonality of tree growth in different parts of the country - that's biology, but very useful for climatology.  AND:  I've just stumbled on a cache of 19th-century barometric records - could have a lot of fun with those without even getting near a US govt site.

I am expecting a fight, but Trmp's recent record has not convinced me of his competence.  Like the saying goes:  "With enemies like this, who needs friends?"

Doug

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Well maybe a lot of serious charts, graphs and data will magically all swing the other way, interesting use of the word magic in this 5 second discussion of global warming/climate change and a million other don't say that! future names.

 

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45 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

The Trmp administration has already tried to shut down climate-related sites at EPA, the Agricultural Research Service and National Park Service.  People at these agencies have found ways to circumvent the order, or in one case, have defied it.  I think they will withdraw, retrench and try again.  This battle is just beginning.

I'm aware of issues related to EPA sites (which seems to have largely boiled down to removing references to Obama), however, the Ag Research and NPS issues were about communication, to my knowledge. 

45 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

It is NASA's climate work that would be destroyed, not the agency, itself.  Sharpening its focus might help it do a better job in space - maybe.  But there are some climate studies for which NASA is uniquely qualified.  I suspect NASA will defend its climate work by turning the records over to a university before the order to destroy them comes down.

Okay, so "They will find it impossible to totally shut down climate research without destroying both NOAA and NASA" is not what you intended to say? I agree that there are aspects to climate study that NASA is ideally suited to - launching satellites, f'rinstance. I believe they should continue that. Does NASA have one physical copy of its climate work that Trump is going to douse in gasoline and toss a match onto? I doubt it.

45 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

And, I agree, most of the work will still get done.  Studying weather requires one to look more than 30 years back and that means we're talking about climate.  I produce two or three new chronologies a year in my forestry work - those chronologies can be used in climate work.  I am planning a look at the seasonality of tree growth in different parts of the country - that's biology, but very useful for climatology.  AND:  I've just stumbled on a cache of 19th-century barometric records - could have a lot of fun with those without even getting near a US govt site.

I am expecting a fight, but Trmp's recent record has not convinced me of his competence.  Like the saying goes:  "With enemies like this, who needs friends?"

I think we're in good agreement here. I talked with someone who pointed out how work on permafrost melt in Alaska - ostensibly an entirely climate-related thing - simply could be tailored to trying to discussing effects on the foundation-less military bases in Alaska. Although, I have to say, putting a heated building on top of permafrost...what the heck did they think would happen?

And Aha. Trump speaks poorly with very little grasp of grammar. I'm similarly unconvinced that there are deeper levels to his competence.

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19 hours ago, Socks Junior said:

I'm aware of issues related to EPA sites (which seems to have largely boiled down to removing references to Obama), however, the Ag Research and NPS issues were about communication, to my knowledge.

Trmp ordered the removal of all climate change info from sites "facing the public."  That mostly boiled down to public-access information sites.  Actual data sets like the International Tree Ring Data Base were not affected.  That was mostly taken as a shot across the bow:  get your stuff out of harm's way.

A few years ago NASA put out feelers to biologists looking for ways for monitor the planet from space.  That fit nicely with some small-scale stuff biologists were hoping for, BUT:  NASA wanted something big.  Biologists were thinking:  basket size; NASA was thinking:  bus size.  That issue never got settled, so neither got what they wanted.  Anyway, satellites are ideal for some types of monitoring.

I suspect NASA's work is more than backed up, but at least some of it needs to be on computers that aren't owned by the Federal government.  That's so that an Executive Order can be obeyed while defeating its intent.  Any published paper produces so many different copies on different computers that it probably couldn't be recalled, even if someone wanted to do it.

Doug

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