SHaYap Posted March 21, 2017 #451 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Good ol' Heraclitus ~ ~ Quote Heraclitus of Ephesus (Ἡράκλειτος, Herakleitos; c. 535 BC – 475 BC) was a Greek philosopher, known for his doctrine of change being central to the universe, and for establishing the term Logos (λόγος) in Western philosophy as meaning both the source and fundamental order of the Cosmos. Couples are wholes and not wholes, what agrees disagrees, the concordant is discordant. From all things one and from one all things. *** ~ It is wise to listen, not to me but to the Word, and to confess that all things are one. Fragment 50, as translated in the Loeb Classics edition Variant translations: Listening not to me but to reason, it is wise to agree that all is one. Listening not to me but to the Word it is wise to agree that all things are one.He who hears not me but the logos will say: All is one. It is wise to hearken, not to me, but to my Word, and to confess that all things are one. The word translated in these quotes and many others as "The Word" or "Reason", is the greek word λόγος (Logos). ~ wiki link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMountainKid Posted March 21, 2017 #452 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Sitting quietly Doing nothing Spring comes And the grass grows by itself - Zen 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMountainKid Posted March 21, 2017 #453 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Just another little quote that I remember. I promise not to do this anymore! "Even the God of Spring knows not how the flowers bloom." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimrich Posted March 21, 2017 Author #454 Share Posted March 21, 2017 All discussions between folks eventually come down to semantics or definitions and happiness, like love and god, may be amongst the most difficult to discuss since there are so many different definitions of happiness and even contentment or bliss. In the book: Happiness is a Choice by Barry Kaufman, Barry explains how to choose Happiness again and again if and when it leaves us. IMO, contentment is the same as happiness and learning HOW to be content, whenever I want it, beats waiting and hoping for contentment to magically come and get me or any other positive emotion/state. Perhaps some enlightened beings are PERMANENTLY content and NEVER lose it. However, using Barry's methods, I find that contentment is easily restored if and when I lose it (which is often!). For me, knowing how to be content, happy, pleased, relaxed, OK, good enough, etc is the best thing I've ever found and wish I'd found this 60 years ago!. Re: What do dogs chase when the desire to chase that car is gone? They learn how to get the desire back again and then go chasing some more cars whereas the dog who doesn't know how to get the desire back, wearily sits down and sinks further and further into hopeless depression and finally DIES of boredom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimrich Posted March 21, 2017 Author #455 Share Posted March 21, 2017 6 hours ago, third_eye said: Good ol' Heraclitus ~ ~ wiki link I didn't have the time to read all of that Wiki stuff but this one caught my attention: " we are, and we are not", which is pretty much what some modern philosophers, like Tony Parsons and Jim Newman, say.= "It is and it isn't". It's a paradox. While deep philosophy may thrill some beings, I'm content with the basics.... I just am! - am I OK?; am I happy?; Is this OK?; What do I need to do to just be HAPPY? Sunday, I sat with a very deep and serious group of nonduality veterans and thinkers, who all had very deep and profound things to say about the topic and all I thought was "Just let me be happy!" Knowing that I am the ONE and there is Nothing may or may not help me, a limited personal egoic creature, be happy so all the heavy "talk" about Advaita and 'no-me' kind of goes right over my head these days! Being the Infinite Source does feel pretty good and so I'll stick with that for now - until something bigger and better comes along! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted March 22, 2017 #456 Share Posted March 22, 2017 5 hours ago, jimrich said: Being the Infinite Source does feel pretty good and so I'll stick with that for now - until something bigger and better comes along! no more the need for bigger nor better nor the time of then from now ... Infinite is meaningless, unless ... Be Here Now ... ~ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes4747 Posted March 22, 2017 #457 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I dont think the proverbial dog needs to learn anything.. I think of contentment as a incubation state for happiness to occur... Actually, that just hit me-new idea rolling around in there. Perhaps even the necessary base for all spiritual growth, self knowledge and true states if bliss... To be ok with what is and ever ready for what will be-whatever that may be.. Is that the path to finding ones true path?? When i have felt kind of lost for so long, was that all i needed to realise? I feel its worked in retrospect and i didnt conciously make the decision to "be content with what is". I just kind of fell into it and all of a sudden i want to play my 6 string again.. Life has been tasting sweeter as of late... So continuing the journey, i just fall into myself? Well, ill be durned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted March 22, 2017 #458 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Wes4747 said: So continuing the journey ... A journey continued, is the same 'one' journey ... the 'eternal' moment ... yin by yang to yin for yang again ... breathe in to breathe out ... until only one state remain at the end ~ ~ Edited March 22, 2017 by third_eye elaboration 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimrich Posted March 22, 2017 Author #459 Share Posted March 22, 2017 19 minutes ago, Wes4747 said: I dont think the proverbial dog needs to learn anything.. I think of contentment as a incubation state for happiness to occur... Actually, that just hit me-new idea rolling around in there. Perhaps even the necessary base for all spiritual growth, self knowledge and true states if bliss... To be ok with what is and ever ready for what will be-whatever that may be.. Is that the path to finding ones true path?? When i have felt kind of lost for so long, was that all i needed to realise? I feel its worked in retrospect and i didnt conciously make the decision to "be content with what is". I just kind of fell into it and all of a sudden i want to play my 6 string again.. Life has been tasting sweeter as of late... So continuing the journey, i just fall into myself? Well, ill be durned. .....or out of your self. Just fall.............. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 22, 2017 #460 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Has happiness not always been a fleeting emotion for most? Is it not the pursuit of happiness that brings us alive? Like a dog chasing a-well anything! Lol Contentment is a different state of being, i believe it only requires a few basic self contained ingredients to manifest, i feel we have to 'do' for happiness. Now... What do dogs lose when the desire to chase that car is gone? Their lead , hopefully . 'False or shallow happiness', leads to satiety and eventually debauch . I agree with you about that type of seeking happiness . The happiness , or contentment I was speaking off is a different thing . Edited March 22, 2017 by back to earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 22, 2017 #461 Share Posted March 22, 2017 On 21/03/2017 at 0:57 AM, Sherapy said: Body language is a type of non-verbal communication in which physical behavior, as opposed to words, are used to express or convey information. Such behavior includes facial expressions, body posture, gestures, eye movement, touch and the use of space. Body language exists in both animals and humans, but this article focuses on interpretations of human body language. It is also known as kinesics (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_language). For ex: an a pre-linguistic infant smiles, or crys. Dont you read what i write? All of this is only potentially communication where a mind can create and interpret the meanings of the gestures or expressions These have to be learned. The rest is evolved response not intentional communication, at all. I don't deny humans use all those methods. They can, because they have the language of mind required to communicate. A baby's cries are not a form of communication from the baby, but are interpreted as one by the parent. Slowly the child learns that a cry will bring a response, and so THEN, it evolves as a form of intentional communication from the baby. (without intent there is no communication) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 22, 2017 #462 Share Posted March 22, 2017 On 19/03/2017 at 6:28 AM, jimrich said: IMO, there is nothing quite as sick as religious conditioning and that conditioning underlies most wars and especially cyber wars as can be seen right here. Some of my most abusive discussions were with doorstep Christians who ultimately resort to personal attacks if disagreed with on their precious religious views. It's amazing that someone could get that worked up over a belief. Christians, more than any other group, will argue and fight to the death over some personal belief. What about football followers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 22, 2017 #463 Share Posted March 22, 2017 16 hours ago, StarMountainKid said: Sitting quietly Doing nothing Spring comes And the grass grows by itself - Zen As ye grow it, So must ye mow it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes4747 Posted March 22, 2017 #464 Share Posted March 22, 2017 6 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Dont you read what i write? All of this is only potentially communication where a mind can create and interpret the meanings of the gestures or expressions These have to be learned. The rest is evolved response not intentional communication, at all. I don't deny humans use all those methods. They can, because they have the language of mind required to communicate. A baby's cries are not a form of communication from the baby, but are interpreted as one by the parent. Slowly the child learns that a cry will bring a response, and so THEN, it evolves as a form of intentional communication from the baby. (without intent there is no communication) Dont agree with this bit, communication is a transference of information. Lets break it down. Baby feels discomfort, baby cries and parents kniw baby has an issue. Information super highway. Again, body language is a type of unintentional communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 23, 2017 #465 Share Posted March 23, 2017 On 23/03/2017 at 0:57 AM, Wes4747 said: Dont agree with this bit, communication is a transference of information. Lets break it down. Baby feels discomfort, baby cries and parents kniw baby has an issue. Information super highway. Again, body language is a type of unintentional communication. yes. Communication is a transfer of information. The parents can receive a communication from the baby because they have sufficient self awareness of mind. The baby is not forming conscious intent and thus is not communicating . The baby also doesn't get a communication from the parent, only a feeling of relief from hunger or cold or discomfort. Only when the baby's mind becomes self aware does two way communication occur. I agree that this is a matter of definition, but due to my back ground in human speech, cognition and language. i don't consider things like whale or bird songs, or other evolved responses, to be communication as humans understand it. Thus i don't define the sounds of other animals as communication, as there is no conscious intent to communicate knowledge. In fact the animal is not even aware that it possesses knowledge to communicate. The songs of birds are so different that a mother can recognise every one of its chicks by their sound That is an evolved abilty of the bird, not a form of communication . If it is unintentional how can it be communicating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes4747 Posted March 23, 2017 #466 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: yes. Communication is a transfer of information. The parents can receive a communication from the baby because they have sufficient self awareness of mind. The baby is not forming conscious intent and thus is not communicating . The baby also doesn't get a communication from the parent, only a feeling of relief from hunger or cold or discomfort. Only when the baby's mind becomes self aware does two way communication occur. I agree that this is a matter of definition, but due to my back ground in human speech, cognition and language. i don't consider things like whale or bird songs, or other evolved responses, to be communication as humans understand it. Thus i don't define the sounds of other animals as communication, as there is no conscious intent to communicate knowledge. In fact the animal is not even aware that it possesses knowledge to communicate. The songs of birds are so different that a mother can recognise every one of its chicks by their sound That is an evolved abilty of the bird, not a form of communication . If it is unintentional how can it be communicating? Information is sent and recieved by unintending parties all the time. A text message recieved by the wrong recepient for example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 24, 2017 #467 Share Posted March 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Wes4747 said: Information is sent and recieved by unintending parties all the time. A text message recieved by the wrong recepient for example. That is not communication ( in my opinion and by my definition ) i accept that others disagree. Some define the use of pheromones by insects as communication. I do not because it lacks any conscious intent to communicate. Just as love can not be love without conscious awareness of the nature of love, communication can not exist without conscious awareness of the intent to communicate. But to take your example. if the text was in Russian it would communicate nothing to me. communication must include a conscious abilty to interpret and understand the intent, purpose, and content of a message. It is quite possible that, even a text in English would communicate nothing to me Eg " meet me at the corner of Vine and Nine, at seven", communicates nothing to me. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes4747 Posted March 24, 2017 #468 Share Posted March 24, 2017 How limiting. There are so many ways i feel i can communicate. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimrich Posted May 6, 2017 Author #469 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Somehow the nagging issue of no individuals in Wholeness or Oneness keeps coming up regarding my late wife and I. She, appears to be an individual in the Afterlife and I appear to be an individual over here and yet, there are no actual individuals anywhere - just the One or the Absolute APPEARING as separate individuals! It's a maddening paradox but sometimes, I get it! Well, for now, I am OK with us having an apparent relationship which is pretty similar to what we had while she lived on this side so I might just relax and let it be what it is .... Irene showing up over here in various ways and us still being a loving couple as best we can. I would gladly engage in another relationship on this side, if it happened, and I'm sure Irene would handle that quite well from her side. It's not like we are still a married couple in the physical sense! I just would never abandon or dismiss Irene in any way so long as she is still alive and well in the Afterlife and willing to drop by from time to time. i miss her a lot but at least she is still able to contact me over here and I can still contact her through various Mediums from over here. Non-duality is a fact but that doesn't KILL our APPARENT relationship any more than it can kill any other apparent relationship. It's just the One, appearing as "many"! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiXilver Posted May 7, 2017 #470 Share Posted May 7, 2017 many waves... one Ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimrich Posted May 7, 2017 Author #471 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Many APPARENT waves yet just one REAL ocean. No thing appearing as everything! "You alone exist." ~ Ramana Maharshi This is it. Just this........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMountainKid Posted May 7, 2017 #472 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Ocean waves are waves of energy with a crest and a trough.. But ocean waves need energy from some external source than the ocean. Without adding energy, the ocean is calm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted May 8, 2017 #473 Share Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) On 5/7/2017 at 9:43 AM, jimrich said: Somehow the nagging issue of no individuals in Wholeness or Oneness keeps coming up regarding my late wife and I. She, appears to be an individual in the Afterlife and I appear to be an individual over here and yet, there are no actual individuals anywhere - just the One or the Absolute APPEARING as separate individuals! It's a maddening paradox but sometimes, I get it! Well, for now, I am OK with us having an apparent relationship which is pretty similar to what we had while she lived on this side so I might just relax and let it be what it is .... Irene showing up over here in various ways and us still being a loving couple as best we can. I would gladly engage in another relationship on this side, if it happened, and I'm sure Irene would handle that quite well from her side. It's not like we are still a married couple in the physical sense! I just would never abandon or dismiss Irene in any way so long as she is still alive and well in the Afterlife and willing to drop by from time to time. i miss her a lot but at least she is still able to contact me over here and I can still contact her through various Mediums from over here. Non-duality is a fact but that doesn't KILL our APPARENT relationship any more than it can kill any other apparent relationship. It's just the One, appearing as "many"! Hi Jim . Such feelings and experiences are often hard to reconcile with modern views of what constitutes 'reality' . But we have a very long period before this when we viewed such experiences differently . Thats why I find it interesting to look at a wide eclectic field of the human experience explaining such things. Some concepts the ancient Egyptians had intrigue me on this level. The Vedic 'science' in this area is as complex as the Buddhist ones on human psychology. Comparatively the western Christian ones seem simplistic and hollow or overtly materialistic. Your mind ( and brain ) is a result of many thousands of years of that 'old conditioning', the framework you are now in has only recently emerged. So there is conflict in perceptions and thoughts. Good choice on going with the flow ! Coincidentally, down here its 'southern all hallows' ... all souls night ... feast of the dead ... time . I celebrate it every year. And grandfather still gets his tobacco offering . Edited May 8, 2017 by back to earth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyCharlesArcher Posted June 7, 2017 #474 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Dvaita-Advaita . . . Others and naught but your Self too!! http://karma-dharma-bhutadaya.blogspot.com/2010/04/loving-your-self.html?m=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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