Non-duality Advaita

[StarMountainKid]

1 hour ago, jimrich said:

My latest "discovery" is all about finding HAPPINESS any where and in any form (except booze)I  - be it with self esteem or no self.  I can see that being happy, in a consistent way. is what matters to me way more than being RIGHT!  That's my personal reality. 

You are right, in all this mambo-jumbo, at least I don't remember happiness mentioned. I would consider happiness the default state of mind. Not to be happy means there must be something making you unhappy. Some burden that needs to be investigated and revealed.

My happiest times were when I felt free, when I could just be myself no matter the circumstances I found myself in. When I had to behave in ways that was not the truth of who I was, when I had to pretend I was someone else to get along  I was unhappy. I was telling lies about myself, compromising, considering I had to do this to survive in some situation.

We are conditioned by society not to reveal or even know our selves. We must be the norm, the average, not to upset the apple cart, to compromise ourselves to fit in. This is living under self-imposed tyranny, the dictatorship of who I should be. This is why it is important to discover the unconditioned you and act from that, hell or high water.

This leads to peace of mind and an inner approval of yourself, secure as you are. I don't think you can't make yourself happy, you need to rearrange your mind so that it allows for happiness to appear all by itself. Free as a child. The burden is lifted, what a relief!

Now you're the boss. It's a courageous inner stance against all that that is trying to make you someone else. Not a confrontation, we just become unassailable.

I know, more mambo-jumbo from me, and I'm sounding pedantic. What I write always sounds way too serious. I mean it to read like some carefree, smiling kid playing, laughing because its all so obvious, so simple. He dances away in his own freedom, thinking, "Stupid complicated adults!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SHaYap]

4 hours ago, jimrich said:

 

Truth is merely the instance where the state of contemplation that persists in a coherent consistent cycle, it has nothing to do with Happiness or Sadness

Sometimes it is Happiness, sometimes Sadness, it is a state of flux between what is and what is not, between what is now and what is then and what is will be.

Truth is the river, Happiness is the current that flows by on it, and sadness is the garbage that goes along with the ride ...

~

 

[StarMountainKid]

17 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Truth is merely the instance where the state of contemplation that persists in a coherent consistent cycle, it has nothing to do with Happiness or Sadness

Sometimes it is Happiness, sometimes Sadness, it is a state of flux between what is and what is not, between what is now and what is then and what is will be.

Truth is the river, Happiness is the current that flows by on it, and sadness is the garbage that goes along with the ride

I think sadness can be a healthy human emotion. It's not always garbage. It's an emotion of compassion? Perhaps happiness is an emotion of contentment. Well, contentment can include both happiness and sadness. I may be happy within myself, but sad when I look at the tragedies in the world. Sort of both at the same time.

Maybe all this is included within the truth.

[jimrich]

Jim wrote: "Or perhaps nobody (egos) DARES to notice them since that might threaten those ego(s).  The "enlightened" will be noticed by other enlightened ones and ignored or attacked by frightened EGOS!  Look what the ego did to Jesus and his followers!"

5 hours ago, intoyoulikeatrain said:

We don't know what Jesus said. He never wrote a book. Apostles didn't write anything. Paul is not really an apostle. Others wrote about him, and no Christian book says a thing about Jim Carey's awakening.

Sorry about that "Jesus" thing.  i take it all back since I have no idea if any story in the bible is true or even verifiable.  Please forget I said it and have a good night sleep.

[jimrich]

4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Sorry to here about the loss of your wife. Welcome to UM.  It would help with the happiness if the warm weather would stay, good grief I am so tired of the cold and rain. I live in the Hollywood Rivera not to far from Redondo and Hermosa and it is so cold. 

Thanks for condolence and happy to meet you over here.  I lived in Hawthorne years ago and recall those cold mornings near the beach..  Did one year at Leuzinger High - a "rough" school.  Finished high school in Whittier then off to see the world!.........

[MWoo7]

2 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

"Stupid complicated adults!"

   Prob shouldn't but I tell my kids something like that.  They're not to be to hard on the adults because they mean well.  That goes double for the really old ones.

[jimrich]

2 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

You are right, in all this mambo-jumbo, at least I don't remember happiness mentioned. I would consider happiness the default state of mind. Not to be happy means there must be something making you unhappy. Some burden that needs to be investigated and revealed.

My happiest times were when I felt free, when I could just be myself no matter the circumstances I found myself in. When I had to behave in ways that was not the truth of who I was, when I had to pretend I was someone else to get along  I was unhappy. I was telling lies about myself, compromising, considering I had to do this to survive in some situation.

We are conditioned by society not to reveal or even know our selves. We must be the norm, the average, not to upset the apple cart, to compromise ourselves to fit in. This is living under self-imposed tyranny, the dictatorship of who I should be. This is why it is important to discover the unconditioned you and act from that, hell or high water.

This leads to peace of mind and an inner approval of yourself, secure as you are. I don't think you can't make yourself happy, you need to rearrange your mind so that it allows for happiness to appear all by itself. Free as a child. The burden is lifted, what a relief!

Now you're the boss. It's a courageous inner stance against all that that is trying to make you someone else. Not a confrontation, we just become unassailable.

I know, more mambo-jumbo from me, and I'm sounding pedantic. What I write always sounds way too serious. I mean it to read like some carefree, smiling kid playing, laughing because its all so obvious, so simple. He dances away in his own freedom, thinking, "Stupid complicated adults!"

That was POWERFUL stuff.  You'd like this guy who teaches folks to tell the truth, check him out: 

Quote

I would consider happiness the default state of mind. Not to be happy means there must be something making you unhappy. Some burden that needs to be investigated and revealed.

It comes down to one's definition of "happiness".   I did a lot of emtional work to undo unhappy "burdens" from my past and finally learned that happiness, as I define it,  is a choice and a choice that I can make again and again if and when "happiness" dries up or is absent in my reality. 

I genuinely appreciate that you have offered your own, personal experiences here instead of the typical impersonal lecture that most members offer so they can be safe from personal judgments and attacks.  It takes guts to say what is true (for someone) OUT LOUD in a crowd. 

Thanks.....

[Frank Merton]

Enlightenment, or its achievement, is one of the central ideas of Buddhism.  However, if you look at what exactly it is thought to mean over the years and from place to place, it incorporates all sorts of ideas.

There are monks in Japan who became enlightened simply by hearing a certain koan.  Nothing more.  The Buddha himself spent years and years working toward it, and, once enlightened, was able to do miracles and remembered all his past lives and was approached by the Hindu deities begging him to stay on earth and share his understanding.

Normally, to become enlightened, if that is one's ambition, one must give up all ambition, which raises the question, what about the ambition (desire) for enlightenment?  We must surrender all desires, not to get crude but in this context I have no choice, what about the desire to urinate when necessary?

If you go to certain museums in Thailand, you see statue after statue of monks who became enlightened on a certain date, but nothing much happened otherwise than they got a statue in this museum.

Is there, then, any reality in all this?  I think that meditation, combined with ethical and loving living (really ethical and loving for all sentient beings -- none of the corruption that people don't see as corruption, such as misleading advertising and telling half-truths to convert and voting for people who we think are good for our prosperity -- combined with right companions and right livelihood and so on -- gradually leads to something profound -- but clean up all the superstition and other nonsense that we have accumulated.

[jimrich]

hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

"Stupid complicated adults!"

 

21 minutes ago, MWoo7 said:

   Prob shouldn't but I tell my kids something like that.  They're not to be to hard on the adults because they mean well.  That goes double for the really old ones.

I'd say it's even sadder when one realizes that adults, just like kids,  are Survivors of ancient and seldom challenged beliefs and behaviors which keeps them locked into what may look like stupidity or outright evil and those Survivors are completely convinced that they are RIGHT which makes their kids WRONG and there's nothing to discuss there!  In therapy, it took a very long time to realize just how deeply my pathetic parents had been programmed, conditioned and POISONED by their parents and culture - just like two trained rats!!!

[+Sherapy]

36 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Enlightenment, or its achievement, is one of the central ideas of Buddhism.  However, if you look at what exactly it is thought to mean over the years and from place to place, it incorporates all sorts of ideas.

There are monks in Japan who became enlightened simply by hearing a certain koan.  Nothing more.  The Buddha himself spent years and years working toward it, and, once enlightened, was able to do miracles and remembered all his past lives and was approached by the Hindu deities begging him to stay on earth and share his understanding.

Normally, to become enlightened, if that is one's ambition, one must give up all ambition, which raises the question, what about the ambition (desire) for enlightenment?  We must surrender all desires, not to get crude but in this context I have no choice, what about the desire to urinate when necessary?

If you go to certain museums in Thailand, you see statue after statue of monks who became enlightened on a certain date, but nothing much happened otherwise than they got a statue in this museum.

Is there, then, any reality in all this?  I think that meditation, combined with ethical and loving living (really ethical and loving for all sentient beings -- none of the corruption that people don't see as corruption, such as misleading advertising and telling half-truths to convert and voting for people who we think are good for our prosperity -- combined with right companions and right livelihood and so on -- gradually leads to something profound -- but clean up all the superstition and other nonsense that we have accumulated.

• Thank you Frank, I was hoping you would post. As always insightful and to the point. What if one runs around declaring themselves enlightened, how does one determine this, and what does it mean to the rest of us? Ha ha ha ha about the  peeing part!!!!!

Edited March 11, 2017 by Sherapy

[jimrich]

When I first read this offensive post, I got hurt and wanted to place Parsec on my Ignore List but got over my irritation and am willing to at least post one reply although I generally do not respond to disrespectful members.  If this gets me banned for standing up for myself, so be it.......

Re:  On 3/8/2017 at 2:27 PM, StarMountainKid said:

Our egos are an illusion in the sense that there is nothing permanent to grasp. Our ego or self is always changing. We're not the same person we were 20 years ago, or even perhaps five minutes ago.

Our egos are also dependent upon random experience. IF you had been born to different parents in Somalia you may have been a different personality, a different sense of self or ego. But who you perceive yourself to be is who you are, and that's ok, that's what you've got to live with. Your conditioned self, the condition of yourself.

My point is, we can supersede our conditioning and become our true nature, which is ourselves minus our randomly conditioned ego.

On 3/9/2017 at 0:23 PM, Parsec said:

Quote

Yeah,  panta rei, thank you. 

My point was that jimrich seems quite patronising on how "egos" should react to his "disconcerting" truth, pointing out to the "obvious" reality that he knows, enlightened mind above others. 

I respect that you have a right to your offensive opinions and, since you have offered nothing to support your points about jimrich, I have nothing to say here.  If you need to throw around disrespectful accusations, please at least offer some quotes or references to what you are referring to.

Quote

 

But then, all of a sudden, he wants to know what other egos think. 

That's a logical fallacy. 

 

It's just your opinion. 

Quote

Short story long, he wanted to start a flame and enjoy the skirmish. 

I am very sorry that you need to stoop to such disrespectful, blaming and out right lies but, yes, I am "enjoying" the skirmish just not the offensive personal attacks, but that's pretty standard at most forums. 

 

On 3/9/2017 at 0:23 PM, Parsec said:

The only ego I can see in this thread is his. 

You are simply looking into a mirror. Say hi to your very disrespectful ego.

On 3/9/2017 at 0:23 PM, Parsec said:

If you say that A doesn't exist and then you ask A to share its point if view, you are just justifying and validating its existence, and this is logically wrong. 

Your egoic thinking is logically WRONG. 

Respond if you wish but i am done responding to you.  

[Frank Merton]

5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

• Thank you Frank, I was hoping you would post. As always insightful and to the point. What if one runs around declaring themselves enlightened, how does one determine this, and what does it mean to the rest of us? Ha ha ha ha about the  peeing part!!!!!

One rarely if ever runs into someone saying they are enlightened.  The general rule is like with the CIA -- those who really are don't say so.

If someone says to me that so-and-so is enlightened (not quite the same as claiming it for oneself), I take it at face value.  In Vietnamese they get a pronoun that translates "venerable," instead of the more common "anh" (which really translates "brother/friend" and is used for men about one's own age), but even the "venerable" pronoun will be laughingly corrected by the person said to be enlightened.  I think the best clue to enlightenment is how happy they are, and they may not even know they are enlightened -- it is just that things that make most of us unhappy don't do that to them. 

(English is so simple -- everyone is "you" and you don't get into trouble or insult someone if you use a pronoun they don't like.)

[StarMountainKid]

jimrich, I liked the video. I liked all of it, also when he said, "Say to the voice in your mind, ok I'm listening. It doesn't say anything."    and, :"You don't get enlightened by being smart, it's not by thinking."  and, "You begin to notice when you interrupt noticing, which is in your mind."  

I agree that being dumb is a good way to start. People sometimes think I'm stupid, or the old word slightly retarded. lol  I don't react as they do, I consider foolish things (to them) important and what they consider important to be foolish. I can't help it, I've always been this way. I value some truths others don't recognize. I don't take any credit for this. Maybe I am slightly stupid.

In the movie 'Harvey', Elwood P. Dowd says, " Years ago my mother used to say to me, 'In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

I've always liked that quote. When we define "pleasant" correctly, I think there's more 'cleverness' in being pleasant than in being clever.

 

 

 

 

 

[+Sherapy]

10 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

One rarely if ever runs into someone saying they are enlightened.  The general rule is like with the CIA -- those who really are don't say so.

If someone says to me that so-and-so is enlightened (not quite the same as claiming it for oneself), I take it at face value.  In Vietnamese they get a pronoun that translates "venerable," instead of the more common "anh" (which really translates "brother/friend" and is used for men about one's own age), but even the "venerable" pronoun will be laughingly corrected by the person said to be enlightened.  I think the best clue to enlightenment is how happy they are, and they may not even know they are enlightened -- it is just that things that make most of us unhappy don't do that to them. 

(English is so simple -- everyone is "you" and you don't get into trouble or insult someone if you use a pronoun they don't like.)

Thank you, I thought as much, that a person who is actually enlightened isn't even aware of it, let alone bragging about it. The lady I care for is as close to enlightenment that I will ever see, IMHO she is in the process of dieing and is happy, joyous, and so at peace she radiates it. She is just herself. For me, she is a true testament to the things that would bother many of us don't phase her. I feel very lucky to be  with her on her death journey. I am learning a lot.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Sherapy

[jimrich]

On 3/9/2017 at 6:02 PM, StarMountainKid said:

I remember watching an interview of J. Krishnamurti. He was asked if he though anyone listening to him had understood his message and reached enlightenment (or whatever you want to call it). He said no, he didn't think so. The interviewer then asked, then why do you continue to talk? Krishnamurti I answered, because it is the right thing to do.

I often felt that K. Murti was NOT happy with him self and perhaps suffered with Shame or unresolved, childhood emotional pain which sometimes appeared as criticism and judgements of others and the world.

[Frank Merton]

2 minutes ago, jimrich said:

I often felt that K. Murti was NOT happy with him self and perhaps suffered with Shame or unresolved, childhood emotional pain which sometimes appeared as criticism and judgements of others and the world.

Not to discuss a specific person, but being judgmental is part of unhappiness and irritation over others' misbehavior is of course a form of grasping.  The formula offered by Buddhism for happiness is to not want things, not just in ourselves but in others.  

This can be criticized as removing ambition to do good things for the world, and this criticism is I think fair.  I would respond that this sort of ambition (to do what is right) is incorporated in the eight-fold noble path, which implies that just removing desire is not the entire formula, and perhaps sometimes gets over-emphasized.  

[StarMountainKid]

1 minute ago, jimrich said:

I often felt that K. Murti was NOT happy with him self and perhaps suffered with Shame or unresolved, childhood emotional pain which sometimes appeared as criticism and judgements of others and the world.

Yes, I think everyone remains personally corrupt in some ways. I've read for years he carried on an affair with the wife of his financial advisor. lol  

If we listen to the core message maybe we can forgive human frailties.

[jimrich]

re:28 minutes ago, jimrich said:
I often felt that K. Murti was NOT happy with him self and perhaps suffered with Shame or unresolved, childhood emotional pain which sometimes appeared as criticism and judgements of others and the world.

26 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Yes, I think everyone remains personally corrupt in some ways. I've read for years he carried on an affair with the wife of his financial advisor. lol  

If we listen to the core message maybe we can forgive human frailties.

I'm with you there.  it seems that a lot of "sages" and wizards displayed some "human" flaws but their messages, insights and pointers still work for me.   I don't need a teacher/spokesperson to be PERFECT (whatever that is) to offer me something of value.  Murti had a lot of good stuff to offer, IMO.

Edited March 11, 2017 by jimrich

[Frank Merton]

4 minutes ago, jimrich said:

re:28 minutes ago, jimrich said:
I often felt that K. Murti was NOT happy with him self and perhaps suffered with Shame or unresolved, childhood emotional pain which sometimes appeared as criticism and judgements of others and the world.

I'm with you there.  it seems that a lot of "sages" and wizards displayed some "human" flaws but their messages, insights and pointers still work for me.   I don't need a teacher/spokesperson to be PERFECT (whatever that is) to offer me something of value.  Murti had a lot of good stuff to offer, IMO.

The Buddha is reported to have said (I paraphrase as I can't find the exact quote) to listen to the wisest, best educated, most rational, best (in the goodness sense) people we can find, and not just to those where we like the message or who are popular or who speak well, and to accept no absolute authority or tradition.

I am going to have to spend some time looking for it, as no doubt I have distorted it in my paraphrase.

[jimrich]

 

16 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

re:jimrich said:
 it seems that a lot of "sages" and wizards displayed some "human" flaws but their messages, insights and pointers still work for me.   I don't need a teacher/spokesperson to be PERFECT (whatever that is) to offer me something of value.  Murti had a lot of good stuff to offer, IMO.

Frank: The Buddha is reported to have said (I paraphrase as I can't find the exact quote) to listen to the wisest, best educated, most rational, best (in the goodness sense) people we can find, and not just to those where we like the message or who are popular or who speak well, and to accept no absolute authority or tradition.

I am going to have to spend some time looking for it, as no doubt I have distorted it in my paraphrase.

Buddha was a sharp guy, IMO. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by jimrich

[StarMountainKid]

8 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

The Buddha is reported to have said (I paraphrase as I can't find the exact quote) to listen to the wisest, best educated, most rational, best (in the goodness sense) people we can find, and not just to those where we like the message or who are popular or who speak well, and to accept no absolute authority or tradition.

This includes not accepting the absolute authority of the Buddha and the tradition of Buddhism. The wise offer various boats to get you to the other shore. We choose what boat fits us best, or we try different boats. or we may not like the boat at first but later find it comfortable.Sometimes we choose a boat that sinks half-way.

I think the well-made boats are all constructed of the same good-quality wood, though the details of design may be different.

Of course, when we arrive at the other shore we don't need the boat anymore.

[jimrich]

Much of what you wrote here and elsewhere is quite articulate and deep or mental so I am a little reluctant to discuss much with you without first defining some of your terms either with a dictionary or as you personally interpret them.  I need to say  here that most of what I offer is only my opinion unless I provide some kind of proof or back-up for my statements.

On 3/7/2017 at 8:00 AM, Mr Walker said:

Quote

I had to do a quick read up to make sure i understood this  world view. I can empathise with it but ultimately it is false and comes about because of the NATURE of human self awareness.

First off, there is no such thing as "human awareness".  There is only Awareness appearing in a human form.  I can't prove this so it's just  my opinion for now.

Quote

In reality the universe does have a duality ie the physical world which exists without sentient awareness of its existence, and the  spiritual awreness of self,  that  universe, and selfs connection to the universe, by self aware minds.

There is no such thing as "duality".  All there is is what's happening here and now and it might be said that what's happening is simply Awareness or Infinite Consciousness or whatever fancy word works, appearing or apparently happening.  As Buddha may have said: "Empty phenomena roll on".  There is no "self" nor any "self aware minds."  Just you, Awareness, appearing as something called "self" & "mind" and everything else.  This is all you ~ Pure Awareness, apparently being and doing things.  More exactly, this is Nothing appearing to be Something.  It's a total illusion or infinite game/dream and you are staging the whole show - FOR YOUR SELF.   The other thing is that it's a Paradox so it can't be explained in conventional terms.   It is and It isn't.  It's both real and unreal. No Thing and Everything - simultaneously.  It's a mystery!

This is not to rob anyone of their own personal self/ego/me/I or their own fun and games.  Go on with your life and pleasures as always.  You do not need to know or even bother with the fact that there is no personal you/ego and that you, the One, are all there is.  It can seem lack-luster to apparently have your toys taken away and nobody can or will do that anyway.  Your toys are made by, for and OF YOU.... Infinite Being - so, enjoy them and have a ball.  You are still the same individual that you ever were and, when you are sick of individuality, Wholeness will gladly show you that this is all a dream and that you are just as whole and complete as you ever were but perhaps without a limiting ego/me/persona. 

Non-duality was never meant to disappoint or harm you but was only offered for those who are fed up with playing the limited 'me' game and want a better way to live.  Just like any Religion or Teaching, Non-duality is there for the asking and not as a REQUIREMENT.  Infinite Being has plenty of time to let you play around in Duality and many lifetimes, etc.   Who knows, you might want to be an intergalactic Alien nest time or the next Buddha????  So the bottom line is: You alone exist so have a ball in all your roles, characters, adventures, lives, mountains, oceans, animals, plants, angels,  heavenly bodies and all the stuff that you have created and when it gets to be a bore, RETURN TO  your real identity as: ______________________!

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by jimrich

[back to earth]

22 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Yea dangerous BTE

 It is why diplomats don't communicate in pictures.  Too open to error, misunderstanding, and thus conflict.

 Even words have limitations but until mental telepathy is perfected, words are the best medium for communication we posses Each word has a specific physical and or symbolic abstract attachment  which is held in common,   and as long as you speaka da  language, life is a vegemite sandwich. .  

Perfected telepathy will be via images not words .... there would be no point  in using words .     That would slow up the data transfer  x  1000 . 

22 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 For example,   I could follow some of your jargonese, but had NO clue what your image represented, because i have no cultural referent for it.

It was a waste of your time, and if i attempted to decipher it, i might insult you.

Which of course you would never do ... just veer around it somehow .   Dont be so cautious walkies .... let her rip ! 

and then to make sure those words are bedded in , an image is added  ( I wrote that in case someone just cant comprehend that the image ,,, just may   ..... bear with me for a moment ... just may r might be an extension of the ideas in the text !  

Gosh!  have you ever thought that ???? 

22 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 I suspect you think you are being smart, or hip, but because communication is about transferring ideas or concepts accurately  so that they can be shared,

and since NO ONE can understand a visual supplement of an idea that follows the written  idea, we shouldn't use images . 

next thing we will be told that we shouldnt use gestures whe we talk as they are a type of visual image.  

22 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 

not about poking fun at people, , this was a big fail. 

 Oh dang  .....    ' fail '   ....  

.... I got a Walker fail     

[jimrich]

56 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

This includes not accepting the absolute authority of the Buddha and the tradition of Buddhism. The wise offer various boats to get you to the other shore. We choose what boat fits us best, or we try different boats. or we may not like the boat at first but later find it comfortable.Sometimes we choose a boat that sinks half-way.

I think the well-made boats are all constructed of the same good-quality wood, though the details of design may be different.

Of course, when we arrive at the other shore we don't need the boat anymore.

There is no "other shore".   This is it!   Your are already "there" and "that" and always was and always will be!  Just be!  Go back and review that video by Kenneth Madden where he tells us what is REAL.  All there is is this.

[back to earth]

14 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

I suppose the parts of my mind that knows how to play the bass and to sing the song were operating. As for thinking about Walmart, I was thinking about Walmart. Actually, as I was thinking about Walmart, I was also thinking about how I was doing all this simultaneously.

So, if there was a hierarchy in this, playing bass, singing, thinking about Walmart, thinking about thinking about Walmart or being aware of all of this. I suppose the me who was present was the one aware of my thoughts about Walmart, this was the me at the top of the hierarchy.

I mentally jumped up and down and clapped when I read that .  You hit on it ( and jumped ahead several stages I thought we have to step through ) . 

Trubs for most is  ( if they ever think about ) ;  "Who's runnin' this God damn show anyway ! '

I think we have to get away from a singular abstract  glob idea about  I or 'who runs the show', It seems any number of things ( 'functions' ? )  at different times can  .

So I look at models or maps of psyche, with parts and levels ad hierarchies ... as sometimes, things can out of place or 'cross wires' . 

( cross wires ; Addiction is a good example ; the 'higher will' or purpose of an addict can know it must,  and wants to stop , but ........)    One model - Exopsychology sees the brain as having 8 circuits ; the call their 'neuro electric circuit 'the Master controller' , an interesting term .

14 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

It's all pretty funny in a way. Everything in this thread is serious, but not too serious. It's highfalutin' palaver in the sense that when we take it too seriously it's something to cling to.

Well ;  

1.  Its all much to serious to be serious about ! 

2. Spiritual pride is the most dangerous and pernicious of all traps along the way , the best way to  control that is  with a  good sense of humor, especially about the sacred and the self . 

3.  Ummmm .....   errrm   ... that all I got  . 

14 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

 

It's like the monk who had all the sutras and all his notes on the sutras collected, studying everything.. A student walked in, saw all this, picked it all up and threw it into the fireplace.

Arrrrrggggh  !      

Oh wait ....  the monk just had some copies lying around ... phew !  

14 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

It's important, but not too important. One can spend one's whole life as a student. What's the point of that? One day you just have to get down and do it.

 

Oooo   more jumping and clapping ! 

I would like to explore this hierachy if the psyche more . nearly every system, religion and culture has the concept in some way . Our culture seems to ignore it, postulates some homogenous 'me '  'I '  and a sort of ghost soul that got globed into one's  'spirit' and 'spirits' and visa versa as some type of single self  ....  and we go to heaven ... or not .  And thats about it .  (unless we 'fracture' dont understand whats going on fall to pieces and have 'multiple personality disorder and get assailed by all sorts of things) . 

Some western spiritual teachers have suggested leave well enough alone , dont even talk about that, others have wanted to look into to understand our nature and how to effect repair if needed .