Dark_Grey Posted February 27, 2017 #1 Share Posted February 27, 2017 New York Times Caught Making-Up False Quote From CPAC Talk A minor but important distinction. This one is subtle. (Screenshots of the articles can be found in the link). Quote From the NYT: His speech also included a promise to throw undocumented immigrants “the hell out of the country” and a recitation of his law-and-order campaign promises. Quote A key word search of the transcript of the President’s speech for the term undocumented revealed that President Trump never even used that word. [...] From Time: "We are also going to save countless American lives. As we speak today, immigration offers [officers] are finding the gang members, the drug dealers and the criminal aliens and throwing them the hell out of our country." This was definitely not an editing mistake. They are making heavy implications here that Trump did not. If Trump is truly "suppressing free press", they have themselves to blame. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 27, 2017 #2 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: New York Times Caught Making-Up False Quote From CPAC Talk A minor but important distinction. This one is subtle. (Screenshots of the articles can be found in the link). This was definitely not an editing mistake. They are making heavy implications here that Trump did not. If Trump is truly "suppressing free press", they have themselves to blame. Wait a minute Trump said he would throw out criminal aliens, arent they and undocumented immigrants one and the same? Honestly though other than that it sounds like the NYT edited his speech favorably , their wording leaves him open for much less racial accusations than his did. Edited February 27, 2017 by Farmer77 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted February 27, 2017 #3 Share Posted February 27, 2017 And some say Trump is being overly sensitive about the news media... perhaps not. This bit of nonsense from the NY Times pretty much screams bias and misinformation. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 27, 2017 #4 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Just now, Lilly said: And some say Trump is being overly sensitive about the news media... perhaps not. This bit of nonsense from the NY Times pretty much screams bias and misinformation. Are undocumented immigrants not criminal aliens by definition? Edit to add: Serious question. Edited February 27, 2017 by Farmer77 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpumper Posted February 27, 2017 #5 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Shocker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 27, 2017 #6 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, Sweetpumper said: Shocker. IDK if you got a new signature or if I just noticed it but I love it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted February 27, 2017 #7 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, Farmer77 said: Are undocumented immigrants not criminal aliens by definition? Edit to add: Serious question. Not the type of criminals Trump was talking about. Seriously, just sneaking over the border for a job isn't even close to being a drug dealer, gang member or a career criminal who engages in theft and violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 27, 2017 #8 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Lilly said: Not the type of criminals Trump was talking about. Seriously, just sneaking over the border for a job isn't even close to being a drug dealer, gang member or a career criminal who engages in theft and violence. So its never OK for the press to put words in someones mouth, but im having a hard time with this one. Like i said above if anything it seemed like a friendly editing to me. What harm comes from interchanging undocumented immigrants and criminal aliens? Im sorry im just not wrapping my brain around the difference. Edited February 27, 2017 by Farmer77 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted February 27, 2017 #9 Share Posted February 27, 2017 It's pretty easy actually, think a guy who sneaks across the border to work in a restaurant or a gal who sneaks across to work as a housekeeper. Ok, now think a guy who is dealing hard drugs, is a member of MS-13, is pimping out the poor gal and will shoot you for little to no reason. Pretty clear difference IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 27, 2017 #10 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, Lilly said: It's pretty easy actually, think a guy who sneaks across the border to work in a restaurant or a gal who sneaks across to work as a housekeeper. Ok, now think a guy who is dealing hard drugs, is a member of MS-13, is pimping out the poor gal and will shoot you for little to no reason. Pretty clear difference IMO. But Trump mentioned those people SEPARATELY from "criminal aliens" which again seems to be an interchangeable term with undocumented immigrant. 26 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: "We are also going to save countless American lives. As we speak today, immigration offers [officers] are finding the gang members, the drug dealers and the criminal aliens and throwing them the hell out of our country." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashotep Posted February 27, 2017 #11 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Wow, what a shock, msm wouldn't lie about Trump. Sarcasm. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNate Posted February 27, 2017 #12 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Just now, Farmer77 said: So while its never OK for the press to put words in someones mouth, but im having a hard time with this one. Like i said above if anything it seemed like a friendly editing to me. What harm comes from interchanging undocumented immigrants and criminal aliens? Im sorry im just not wrapping my brain around the difference. Well, it depends on the intention. If he said it the way you mean, there's no difference...undocumented immigrants is just the PC way of saying illegal aliens or criminal aliens, in which case the NYT could have simply opted to use the less offensive wording. What the Trump-ists probably didn't notice was that only "the hell out of this country" was in quotes in the NYT article, which doesn't seem to be in contention. The other option is that he meant criminal aliens, vs. regular aliens... Aliens that come over and commit crimes. Then again, simply entering into the country is a crime, so it would imply all of them...but, if that's what he meant, then 1) Trump should clear up the mistake (could you imagine, "No, I only meant kick out the illegal alien criminals...the rest can stay!!") and then 2) the NYT should print a retraction...which is standard for all news outlets over all history...and which the NYT would probably be thrilled to do, because the alternative version is so much more interesting...haha Either way...hardly the smoking gun the Trump-ists have been hoping for. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted February 27, 2017 #13 Share Posted February 27, 2017 19 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Are undocumented immigrants not criminal aliens by definition? Edit to add: Serious question. Be careful Farmer. You're about to spin yourself into an embarrassing moment. Remember the main talking points? Trump wants to get rid of ALL undocumented people when only a very small group are the problem? You just said they're ALL THE SAME. So is it gang members, drug dealers and criminal aliens or is it the UNDOCUMENTED? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted February 27, 2017 Author #14 Share Posted February 27, 2017 24 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Wait a minute Trump said he would throw out criminal aliens, arent they and undocumented immigrants one and the same? You could look at this this as the NYT implying that all undocumented immigrants are criminals. That's how they interpreted his words in their article...I think this one backfired on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted February 27, 2017 #15 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: But Trump mentioned those people SEPARATELY from "criminal aliens" which again seems to be an interchangeable term with undocumented immigrant. Doesn't sound that way to me...sounds more like an allusion to other forms of crime to me. Hey, I don't know for sure, but I do know the NY Times pulled a sleazy one by changing the wording. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpumper Posted February 27, 2017 #16 Share Posted February 27, 2017 23 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: IDK if you got a new signature or if I just noticed it but I love it ! I just changed it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 27, 2017 #17 Share Posted February 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, and then said: Be careful Farmer. You're about to spin yourself into an embarrassing moment. Remember the main talking points? Trump wants to get rid of ALL undocumented people when only a very small group are the problem? You just said they're ALL THE SAME. So is it gang members, drug dealers and criminal aliens or is it the UNDOCUMENTED? Im truly not trying to be contentious here. I genuinely thought (think?) the two terms have become interchangeable. For the record though my problem with Trump and immigration isnt that he wants to get rid of all the undocumented folks, its that its logistically impossible to do so without trampling on the rights of the rest of us while draining the treasury. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 27, 2017 #18 Share Posted February 27, 2017 8 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: You could look at this this as the NYT implying that all undocumented immigrants are criminals. That's how they interpreted his words in their article...I think this one backfired on them. By definition they are though. I thought that was the right's point all along? It was back in the early 2000's when I was a card carrying GOP member. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted February 27, 2017 Author #19 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Farmer77 said: By definition they are though. I thought that was the right's point all along? It was back in the early 2000's when I was a card carrying GOP member. Criminals, no. Illegal? By definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNate Posted February 27, 2017 #20 Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: Criminals, no. Illegal? By definition. lol...wut? By definition: crim·i·nal ˈkrim(ə)n(ə)l/ noun 1. a person who has committed a crime. crime krīm/ noun an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law. "shoplifting was a serious crime" synonyms: offense, unlawful act, illegal act, felony, misdemeanor, misdeed, wrong; informalno-no "kidnapping is a very serious crime" illegal activities. "the victims of crime" synonyms: lawbreaking, delinquency, wrongdoing, criminality, misconduct, illegality, villainy; Can you clarify the your statement? I'm lost on the difference. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 27, 2017 #21 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Lilly said: And some say Trump is being overly sensitive about the news media... perhaps not. This bit of nonsense from the NY Times pretty much screams bias and misinformation. Trump is overly sensitive about ANYTHING which is not pro-Trump. That much, throughout, is abundantly clear. Some call it "immaturity", other's call it "narcissism" Who knows... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedutchiedutch Posted February 27, 2017 #22 Share Posted February 27, 2017 So if I understand this correctly Trump said that : "We are also going to save countless American lives. As we speak today, immigration offers [officers] are finding thegang members, the drug dealers and the criminal aliens and throwing them the hell out of our country." And the NYT said : "His speech also included a promise to throw undocumented immigrants “the hell out of the country” and a recitation of his law-and-order campaign promises." But in my opinion, first of all, the NYT is not quoting Trump and second of all "undocumented immigrants" are criminal aliens for crying out loud. Trump mentioned that he is going to throw out "Criminal Aliens" So what exactly did the NYT reported falsely ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 27, 2017 #23 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Extreme narcissists absolutely hate any potential for "counter-argument", thus their particular distaste for general media. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarakore Posted February 28, 2017 #24 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Trump slippery sloped when he basically mentions illegal immigration and then segues into defining them narrowly. One must also read the greater context to not make the cherry picked error in the OP. Quote By stopping the flow of illegal immigration, we will save countless tax dollars (ph), and that's so important because the tax -- the dollars we're losing are beyond anything that you can imagine. And the tax dollars that can be used to rebuild struggling American communities, including our inner cities. (APPLAUSE) We are also going to save countless American lives. As we speak today, immigration offers are finding the gang members, the drug dealers and the criminal aliens and throwing them the hell out of our country. http://time.com/4682023/cpac-donald-trump-speech-transcript/ As a side note is this a typo or did Trump say offers instead of officers? Did anyone watch the video to compare? Oh well whatever. He mentions illegal immigration but does not clarify so makes it seem it only consists of those three elements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarakore Posted February 28, 2017 #25 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Also as noted already most here would claim all undocumented immigrants are criminal aliens. So the OP fails within this very environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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