Waspie_Dwarf Posted February 27, 2017 #1 Share Posted February 27, 2017 SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year Quote We are excited to announce that SpaceX has been approached to fly two private citizens on a trip around the moon late next year. They have already paid a significant deposit to do a moon mission. Like the Apollo astronauts before them, these individuals will travel into space carrying the hopes and dreams of all humankind, driven by the universal human spirit of exploration. We expect to conduct health and fitness tests, as well as begin initial training later this year. Other flight teams have also expressed strong interest and we expect more to follow. Additional information will be released about the flight teams, contingent upon their approval and confirmation of the health and fitness test results. Read More: SpaceX 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted February 27, 2017 #2 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Wow, that would be a great ride to take. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted February 28, 2017 Author #3 Share Posted February 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, Merc14 said: Wow, that would be a great ride to take. I think the time scale is a little too ambitious. They have not yet flown the Dragon 2 crewed version of the Dragon Spacecraft. They have yet not flown the Falcon Heavy. They have only managed two successful flights since a second stage identical to the one that will be flown on this mission failed catastrophically during fuelling. They are way, WAY behind schedule with their commercial launches. Just over a week ago they rescheduled their Red Dragon Mars mission from 2018 to 2020. I have no doubt that SpaceX will carry out this flight but, given their past history, I will be amazed if it is next year. There is a fine line between adventure and foolhardiness. I sincerely hope, for the sake of the fare paying passengers, that SpaceX remain the right side of that line. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted February 28, 2017 Author #4 Share Posted February 28, 2017 NASA Statement About SpaceX Private Moon Venture Announcement Quote The following is a statement on SpaceX’s announcement Monday about a private space mission around the moon: “NASA commends its industry partners for reaching higher. “We will work closely with SpaceX to ensure it safely meets the contractual obligations to return the launch of astronauts to U.S. soil and continue to successfully deliver supplies to the International Space Station. “For more than a decade, NASA has invested in private industry to develop capabilities for the American people and seed commercial innovation to advance humanity's future in space. “NASA is changing the way it does business through its commercial partnerships to help build a strong American space economy and free the agency to focus on developing the next-generation rocket, spacecraft and systems to go beyond the moon and sustain deep space exploration.” -end- Read More: NASA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted February 28, 2017 #5 Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Waspie_Dwarf said: I think the time scale is a little too ambitious. They have not yet flown the Dragon 2 crewed version of the Dragon Spacecraft. They have yet not flown the Falcon Heavy. They have only managed two successful flights since a second stage identical to the one that will be flown on this mission failed catastrophically during fuelling. They are way, WAY behind schedule with their commercial launches. Just over a week ago they rescheduled their Red Dragon Mars mission from 2018 to 2020. I have no doubt that SpaceX will carry out this flight but, given their past history, I will be amazed if it is next year. There is a fine line between adventure and foolhardiness. I sincerely hope, for the sake of the fare paying passengers, that SpaceX remain the right side of that line. Completely agree and based on track record I wouldn't want to be customer #1 or even #5, I'd wait a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Willis Posted February 28, 2017 #6 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I agree with what is being said about the time scale. NASA would obviously be involved in that if they do not believe the mission is as safe as possible they will refuse Space-X permission to use their launch facilities. And I am sure the FAA and other agencies would have to be satisfied. I do wonder if Mr Musk himself will be one of the passengers? I also wonder if Space-X, rather like Virgin Galactic, have to exaggerate their rate of progress to maintain interest. I am not being cynical: I am saying this is a well-established method used by big risk-taking entrepreneurs. When Howard Hughes was setting air speed and distance records in the 1930's he talked about the creation of large-scale international airlines operating by the end of the decade. It was the 1950's by the time his vision came to fruition at the scale he'd described. But it happened, and that is what matters. Elon Musk has worked wonders, but I feel it will be the mid-2020's by the time he carries out the mission announced today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibeliever Posted February 28, 2017 #7 Share Posted February 28, 2017 17 hours ago, Merc14 said: Completely agree and based on track record I wouldn't want to be customer #1 or even #5, I'd wait a while. I couldn't afford a ticket, but if they offered to let me go for free I'd give it serious thought. I think I'd risk it to fulfill a lifelong dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBE Hybrid Posted February 28, 2017 #8 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Richard Branson has one of the tickets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brizink Posted March 1, 2017 #9 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Too ambitious, if we went to the moon in the 60's it should be child's play getting there with modern tech. Honestly, NASA and SpaceX should have standby launch capability to the moon at any time. Think about it, all the computers on the original Apollo craft were weighted in thousands of lbs, nowdays that munch computing power is available on a $20 smart phone. The atmospheric internal controls (life support) is augmented by smaller lighter and more efficient mechanisms and materials. The rocket fuel itself albeit similar has achieved more efficiency by leaps and bounds. Every aspect of rocketry and space related tech has come soo far since them and you think it's overly ambitious? Be real. Edited March 1, 2017 by brizink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted March 1, 2017 Author #10 Share Posted March 1, 2017 1 hour ago, brizink said: Too ambitious, if we went to the moon in the 60's it should be child's play getting there with modern tech. leaps and bounds. No one said it was too ambitious. What we said was, given SpaceX's recent problems the time scale of achieving this next year is too ambitious. Before telling people to get real maybe you should try and read what they actually said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Willis Posted March 1, 2017 #11 Share Posted March 1, 2017 2 hours ago, brizink said: The rocket fuel itself albeit similar has achieved more efficiency by leaps and bounds. How has the efficiency of rocket fuel increased by leaps and bounds? The vacuum specific impulse of the lox/liquid hydrogen J-2 engines used in the upper stages of the Saturn V was 420 sec. The vacuum specific impulse of the RS-25 engines used in the Space Launch System is 450 sec. That is an increase of only 6 percent, hardly a leap or a bound. In the case of the Falcon rockets used by Space-X, the lox/rp-1 Merlin engine has a sea level specific impulse of 280 sec. This compares to the F-1 engine used in the first stage of the Saturn V, which had a sea level specific impulse of 264 sec. Again, the improvement in efficiency is only 6 percent. Fuel efficiency has increased only marginally, but thrust to weight ratios of rocket engines have almost doubled. Almost all the improvements in rocket technology have come from the use of better materials, and not the propellants. The first version of the Space Launch system is actually less efficient than the fifty-year-old Saturn V, but the later versions will be more efficient by about 15%. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brizink Posted March 1, 2017 #12 Share Posted March 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said: No one said it was too ambitious. What we said was, given SpaceX's recent problems the time scale of achieving this next year is too ambitious. Before telling people to get real maybe you should try and read what they actually said. Too ambitious given recent problems? I wasn't saying that it was that feasable for SpaceX specifically, more or less NASA and the world's various public and private space agencies should have this capability. Of course SpaceX SHOULD have this capability, but I have to agree that they dont, but given the nature of this beast, it SHOULD be child's play. Additionally, if they can fly a rocket unmanned, they should have an easier time with a manned craft, mostly due to signal delay and radio frequency interference, which I don't care what encrypted signal frequency they use, there WILL be interference and that has been a big issue for them with unmanned craft. Elon Musk is a great thinker, but I think he and his company could do a better job given their inordinate resources. The keywords above are mostly "should" something you clearly missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brizink Posted March 1, 2017 #13 Share Posted March 1, 2017 6 hours ago, Derek Willis said: How has the efficiency of rocket fuel increased by leaps and bounds? The vacuum specific impulse of the lox/liquid hydrogen J-2 engines used in the upper stages of the Saturn V was 420 sec. The vacuum specific impulse of the RS-25 engines used in the Space Launch System is 450 sec. That is an increase of only 6 percent, hardly a leap or a bound. In the case of the Falcon rockets used by Space-X, the lox/rp-1 Merlin engine has a sea level specific impulse of 280 sec. This compares to the F-1 engine used in the first stage of the Saturn V, which had a sea level specific impulse of 264 sec. Again, the improvement in efficiency is only 6 percent. Fuel efficiency has increased only marginally, but thrust to weight ratios of rocket engines have almost doubled. Almost all the improvements in rocket technology have come from the use of better materials, and not the propellants. The first version of the Space Launch system is actually less efficient than the fifty-year-old Saturn V, but the later versions will be more efficient by about 15%. Given the lack of new materials and compunds, 6-15% in a craft that's considerably lighter is a leap and a bound when you factor the huge forces these rockets produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Willis Posted March 1, 2017 #14 Share Posted March 1, 2017 1 minute ago, brizink said: Given the lack of new materials and compunds, 6-15% in a craft that's considerably lighter is a leap and a bound when you factor the huge forces these rockets produce. It isn't a leap and a bound. The specific impulse of the V-2 engine designed in 1942 was 210 sec. Over the next twenty-five years that was doubled - that could perhaps be described as a leap and a bound. The propellant mass ratio of the V-2 was about 67%. By the 1960's mass ratio was approaching 90%, and that too could perhaps be described as a leap and a bound. But since then the increase in chemical and structural efficiency of rockets has been marginal, and they are now approaching the maximum possible. Chemical and mechanical systems are not like electronics. As Moore's Law has demonstrated, computer power and memory doubles about every two years. That is simply not possible with rocket technology. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted March 1, 2017 #15 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Interesting blog article and hopefully on topic based on where this thread has gone, comparing the RS-25 to the J2X. https://blogs.nasa.gov/J2X/2013/08/06/inside-the-leo-doghouse-rs-25-vs-j-2x/ Also another good article about the RS-25 https://blogs.nasa.gov/Rocketology/2015/08/13/rs-25-engines-meeting-the-need-for-speed/ https://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-tests-the-ferrari-of-rocket-engines-for-mission-to-mars/ Edited March 1, 2017 by Merc14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Willis Posted March 1, 2017 #16 Share Posted March 1, 2017 18 minutes ago, Merc14 said: Interesting blog article and hopefully on topic based on where this thread has gone, comparing the RS-25 to the J2X. https://blogs.nasa.gov/J2X/2013/08/06/inside-the-leo-doghouse-rs-25-vs-j-2x/ Also another good article about the RS-25 https://blogs.nasa.gov/Rocketology/2015/08/13/rs-25-engines-meeting-the-need-for-speed/ https://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-tests-the-ferrari-of-rocket-engines-for-mission-to-mars/ Thanks Merc, they were fascinating articles. Though I am not quite sure what I found most fascinating, the rocket engine technology or the fact there used to be a Miss NASA beauty pageant! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithisco Posted March 1, 2017 #17 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Not going to happen next year. There is quite literally, no way that either the Heavy Lifter or Dragon will achieve Human Flight Certification in such a short timespan. The documentation alone will take 2 years to write assuming the review loops don't throw up any nasty surprises 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperdyer Posted March 2, 2017 #18 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Are these two individuals going alone without a seasoned astronaut? Computer controls are great and reliable for the most part, but if it hits the fan a person is needed. If these individuals are going alone then the time table is quite ambitious. Are we at the point where "The Monkey throws the switch"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Trinity Posted March 3, 2017 #19 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Can those two people be Justin Bieber and Donald Trump? And could we arrange to leave them there? Lol seriously though a great step to take even if it is via a private contractor. I would have thought we would have perfected the journey for our official astronauts and it was a common place occurrence before allowing space tourists to take the same journey. I think it will be indeed one hell of a ride, but caution must be exercised I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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