Hanslune Posted March 1, 2017 #1 Share Posted March 1, 2017 ....or is it just redirecting to self-havens of self-same believers or this particular to UM only? I'm asking as I've noted (anecdotally) that there seems to be less and less presentation of 'valid'* fringe/alternative ideas (FAIL) there even appears to be a decline in believers in old standards (Atlantis, ancient aliens, etc). That said there also seems to be more FAIL in media but in general this is pretty fluffy (non-factual stuff) Opinions? *By valid I mean someone actually believing it and not using it as an entry to troll. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted March 1, 2017 #2 Share Posted March 1, 2017 No, it's just on newer social media and less common on forums as they are sort of dieing out. The number of blogs and podcasts greatly outnumber skeptical or even science ones. And a number of scientific outlets are shifting towards click bait and bad science news to get clicks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightScreams Posted March 1, 2017 #3 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Like most things, interests fade in and out and the alternative news has always been about money first and foremost. 2 minutes ago, ShadowSot said: No, it's just on newer social media and less common on forums as they are sort of dieing out. The number of blogs and podcasts greatly outnumber skeptical or even science ones. And a number of scientific outlets are shifting towards click bait and bad science news to get clicks. Where there is money, there is content. Fake or real comes secondary and they move their content to wherever the money is. Blogs I completely disregard because so many I have tracked sources to authors more known for fictional works and blogs in general is a sham in terms of fake news, mostly from people copying other sources without any research into them first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted March 1, 2017 #4 Share Posted March 1, 2017 4 hours ago, NightScreams said: Like most things, interests fade in and out and the alternative news has always been about money first and foremost. Where there is money, there is content. Fake or real comes secondary and they move their content to wherever the money is. Blogs I completely disregard because so many I have tracked sources to authors more known for fictional works and blogs in general is a sham in terms of fake news, mostly from people copying other sources without any research into them first. Not all blogs are evil. LOL I've worked very hard on mine to defend orthodox historical scholarship. And that is surely why it doesn't attract more people than it does. I don't use blogs for historical research, although I've carefully researched my own articles with peer-reviewed material. But it's only a hobby. Some blogs are very excellent and well worth reading, while I agree others are suspect. The trick is to know what's good and what's junk, and this is a skill in which fringe proponents generally seem to be lacking. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 1, 2017 #5 Share Posted March 1, 2017 After recent events ( ahem ! ) maybe I should spend more time on your blog than I have ... and less time here Just sayin ' Maybe Hans is right ..... its following the 'diamonic formula ' ; its a 'law' of woo , the UFO 'flap' - perfect example . Although some things may seem very different, they follow this law , be it Nessie sightings, 'conspiracies' probings , the 'Fake Child Welfare Officer Scam' was a classic case ... even the cops where bamboozled ; "This cant be happening ... why are all these people reporting this ? Its physically impossible ! ' .... then 'poof' gone in a puff of smoke (until some other form of it is morphed out ) . First, there is a report or sighting ( doesnt matter how 'real' or 'fake' it is , if it fulfills the criteria , its off ! More and more people report the same or similar thing. Then people start deliberately faking it (for fun or not ... even 'we' do that, with our 'joke woo posts' . Then there is a market for it . Then (now it gets weird) people start faking it , or experiencing it (however you want to see it ) 'not deliberately ' ! Then it goes from a 'trend' to a ' meme ' a joke and eventually lame .... then a lame meme joke . Really good ones last a long time, are recurrent or even cross large amounts of time and space by slightly changing form . Sometimes it will reach a crescendo of absurdity ( like some psychological Saturnalia ) that will even turn the 'one time believer' away in disgust ... I mean if Dom finally had enough of it ! ....... DOM Its getting pretty bad 'out there ' .... that 'flat earth thingo' really snapped it ! errrrmmmmm ...... * language warning " ( Don't miss the Stephen Hawking bit @ 1. 00 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 1, 2017 #6 Share Posted March 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, back to earth said: After recent events ( ahem ! ) maybe I should spend more time on your blog than I have ... and less time here Just sayin ' Maybe Hans is right ..... its following the 'diamonic formula ' ; its a 'law' of woo , the UFO 'flap' - perfect example . Although some things may seem very different, they follow this law , be it Nessie sightings, 'conspiracies' probings , the 'Fake Child Welfare Officer Scam' was a classic case ... even the cops where bamboozled ; "This cant be happening ... why are all these people reporting this ? Its physically impossible ! ' .... then 'poof' gone in a puff of smoke (until some other form of it is morphed out ) . First, there is a report or sighting ( doesnt matter how 'real' or 'fake' it is , if it fulfills the criteria , its off ! More and more people report the same or similar thing. Then people start deliberately faking it (for fun or not ... even 'we' do that, with our 'joke woo posts' . Then there is a market for it . Then (now it gets weird) people start faking it , or experiencing it (however you want to see it ) 'not deliberately ' ! Then it goes from a 'trend' to a ' meme ' a joke and eventually lame .... then a lame meme joke . Really good ones last a long time, are recurrent or even cross large amounts of time and space by slightly changing form . Sometimes it will reach a crescendo of absurdity ( like some psychological Saturnalia ) that will even turn the 'one time believer' away in disgust ... I mean if Dom finally had enough of it ! ....... DOM Its getting pretty bad 'out there ' .... that 'flat earth thingo' really snapped it ! errrrmmmmm ...... * language warning " ( Don't miss the Stephen Hawking bit @ 1. 00 ) Or a quasi-religious state of altered consciousness, buy me a drink and I'll tell you about the time. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 1, 2017 #7 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Hanslune said: ....or is it just redirecting to self-havens of self-same believers or this particular to UM only? I'm asking as I've noted (anecdotally) that there seems to be less and less presentation of 'valid'* fringe/alternative ideas (FAIL) there even appears to be a decline in believers in old standards (Atlantis, ancient aliens, etc). That said there also seems to be more FAIL in media but in general this is pretty fluffy (non-factual stuff) Opinions? *By valid I mean someone actually believing it and not using it as an entry to troll. Well if things get real bad we can all put our names in a hat as well as compose a fringe subject old or excitingly new that can be put in another hat. The winner will then present a well composted and documented presentation and prepared for rebuttal. this would do two things, kill time and educated novice fringers how to properly present and support a position. Because it is not enough fringers week everyone is encouraged to go out and hug a fringer. jmccr8 Edited March 1, 2017 by jmccr8 spelling 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonFromPorlock Posted March 1, 2017 #8 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Well, if there are only a limited number of woo-believers in the world, and each can only believe a limited amount of woo, then it may be that the total quantity of woo in circulation is constant, but shifts among the unlimited number of woo items available. Maybe after the current frenzy of 'political' woo dies down, Atlantis will once more be sending up bubbles, and Nibiru will once more peek shyly out from behind the Sun. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 1, 2017 #9 Share Posted March 1, 2017 2 hours ago, PersonFromPorlock said: Well, if there are only a limited number of woo-believers in the world, and each can only believe a limited amount of woo, then it may be that the total quantity of woo in circulation is constant, but shifts among the unlimited number of woo items available. Maybe after the current frenzy of 'political' woo dies down, Atlantis will once more be sending up bubbles, and Nibiru will once more peek shyly out from behind the Sun. You may have something there . Hmmmm .... W B x W / n = W + t / c - W n . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted March 1, 2017 Author #10 Share Posted March 1, 2017 So it would seem the FAIL wave has receded but has done so not by being reduced but by flooding into different areas; blogs, videos and other methods where the FAIL believer can voice their opinion while avoiding any immediate questioning or objection. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted March 1, 2017 #11 Share Posted March 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hanslune said: So it would seem the FAIL wave has receded but has done so not by being reduced but by flooding into different areas; blogs, videos and other methods where the FAIL believer can voice their opinion while avoiding any immediate questioning or objection. Pretty much. The younger generation is mostly on Facebook or Twitter now. Or... instagram and snap...chat? I guess? I dunno, I still use IRC. I know there is a Fortean Facebook group that reminds me of UM on its earlier day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 1, 2017 #12 Share Posted March 1, 2017 39 minutes ago, Hanslune said: So it would seem the FAIL wave has receded but has done so not by being reduced but by flooding into different areas; blogs, videos and other methods where the FAIL believer can voice their opinion while avoiding any immediate questioning or objection. Well , that IS 'our' right ; all people are created equal ( morph) ... all people ARE equal ! (morph ) .... all people's ideas are equal (morph) ... and valid . Questioning ??? Objections ???????? What are ya ? Some type of ' truth dictator ' ? You are going against the American Constitution there buddy ! Free speech ! Free Speech ! Help I am being oppressed ...... I got asked logical and reasonable questions ..... I want my rights back ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 1, 2017 #13 Share Posted March 1, 2017 35 minutes ago, ShadowSot said: Pretty much. The younger generation is mostly on Facebook or Twitter now. Or... instagram and snap...chat? I guess? I dunno, I still use IRC. I know there is a Fortean Facebook group that reminds me of UM on its earlier day. How far back where those 'early days ' ? I am relative newcomer ... I remember a time after joining when there seemed some 'classic contributors' that have been quiet for a while ..... but I am amazed at the new ones that still pop up . Can we play with the possibility that wooers cam here , got educated and de-wooed and thats why the numbers decreased ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeskov Posted March 1, 2017 #14 Share Posted March 1, 2017 26 minutes ago, back to earth said: How far back where those 'early days ' ? I am relative newcomer ... I remember a time after joining when there seemed some 'classic contributors' that have been quiet for a while ..... but I am amazed at the new ones that still pop up . 10 years ago the ET part of the forum was rife with posters promoting woo. Not anymore. Quote Can we play with the possibility that wooers cam here , got educated and de-wooed and thats why the numbers decreased ? I must admit that I highly doubt it. Cheers, Badeskov 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted March 1, 2017 #15 Share Posted March 1, 2017 24 minutes ago, back to earth said: How far back where those 'early days ' ? I am relative newcomer ... I remember a time after joining when there seemed some 'classic contributors' that have been quiet for a while ..... but I am amazed at the new ones that still pop up . Can we play with the possibility that wooers cam here , got educated and de-wooed and thats why the numbers decreased ? Huh, it seemed like you've been around longer. I can't really guess at the time of change, but I joined here because it was much less polarized than the previois forums I've been on. Part of that is politics, of course. Part of it, I think, too is long term members on both fronts have debated the same topics many times over. For the last point, I wish. I think the trend now is just to go somewhere your ideas aren't criticized. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 1, 2017 #16 Share Posted March 1, 2017 27 minutes ago, ShadowSot said: Huh, it seemed like you've been around longer. I can't really guess at the time of change, but I joined here because it was much less polarized than the previois forums I've been on. Part of that is politics, of course. Part of it, I think, too is long term members on both fronts have debated the same topics many times over. For the last point, I wish. I think the trend now is just to go somewhere your ideas aren't criticized. Hmmm .... back to post #12 then . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted March 1, 2017 #17 Share Posted March 1, 2017 1 hour ago, back to earth said: Well , that IS 'our' right ; all people are created equal ( morph) ... all people ARE equal ! (morph ) .... all people's ideas are equal (morph) ... and valid . Questioning ??? Objections ???????? What are ya ? Some type of ' truth dictator ' ? You are going against the American Constitution there buddy ! Free speech ! Free Speech ! Help I am being oppressed ...... I got asked logical and reasonable questions ..... I want my rights back ! Chuckle! Indeed. The post-modern "Special Snowflake Syndrome" has become entirely too common in the current era. Such is evidenced by certain past and present contributors to these pages. Those pesky facts... . 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted March 2, 2017 Author #18 Share Posted March 2, 2017 53 minutes ago, Swede said: Those pesky facts... . Yes, I'm still annoyed that Mariner 4 found no Martian civilization. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted March 2, 2017 #19 Share Posted March 2, 2017 17 hours ago, back to earth said: After recent events ( ahem ! ) maybe I should spend more time on your blog than I have ... and less time here Just sayin ' ... No, don't do that. We need you here! But you're always welcome to visit my blog, and there's a link in my signature that says, well...Visit My Blog! You can even comment, if you want. I get a good mix of academic sorts and way-out woo, just like here. To this day the one that's getting the most comments is my four-part article on the Gosford Glyphs. As an Aussie you should be proud of that. Me? I'm still just a little surprised that so many people believe they're real. ------------------------------------------------------------------- As many here probably know, I'm a docent in the Egyptian exhibit at the Field Museum, and occasionally in the Egyptian exhibit at the Oriental Institute (University of Chicago). I spend long hours on the weekends interacting with visitors, teaching them about ancient Egypt, giving tours, and occasionally lectures. I am noticing a trend as of late. More and more I'm encountering visitors who ask me what I think about aliens in ancient Egypt, especially aliens helping to build the pyramids. And most of these are adults, mind you. I'm no longer nonplussed about it, I have to admit, but it bothers me. I'm guessing it stems mostly from Ancient Aliens, that ridiculous and pointless farce on the History Channel. I'm also coming across more people who are interested in super-advanced lost technologies, because, as we all know, the ancients simply couldn't have constructed those colossal stone monuments by themselves. Ahem. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted March 2, 2017 #20 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hanslune said: Yes, I'm still annoyed that Mariner 4 found no Martian civilization. It was looking in the wrong spot. They were hiding behind that Martian pyramid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted March 2, 2017 #21 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hanslune said: Yes, I'm still annoyed that Mariner 4 found no Martian civilization. Me and my dad were both big LOTR fans when we were respectively in our teens. (He was a teen first) He told me once how, in all the times he went out to the woods hunting or hiking, how disappointed he was to have never met an elf. I feel similar everytime a possible alien message or Faster than light travel thing gets disproved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted March 2, 2017 #22 Share Posted March 2, 2017 My theory is that, like energy and matter, stupid in the universe is neither created nor destroyed. It merely changes location. And nigh all of it is choked up in the White House right now. --Jaylemurph 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 2, 2017 #23 Share Posted March 2, 2017 yes, there are theories about stupidity too , pretty valid ones IMO ; http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 2, 2017 #24 Share Posted March 2, 2017 28 minutes ago, Hanslune said: Yes, I'm still annoyed that Mariner 4 found no Martian civilization. They are 'on the astral ' long gone forgotten gods sho now only echo in the unconscious of any who arrive there . .... remember that .... what a great story ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted March 2, 2017 #25 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said: No, don't do that. We need you here! But you're always welcome to visit my blog, and there's a link in my signature that says, well...Visit My Blog! You can even comment, if you want. I get a good mix of academic sorts and way-out woo, just like here. To this day the one that's getting the most comments is my four-part article on the Gosford Glyphs. As an Aussie you should be proud of that. Me? I'm still just a little surprised that so many people believe they're real. ------------------------------------------------------------------- As many here probably know, I'm a docent in the Egyptian exhibit at the Field Museum, and occasionally in the Egyptian exhibit at the Oriental Institute (University of Chicago). I spend long hours on the weekends interacting with visitors, teaching them about ancient Egypt, giving tours, and occasionally lectures. I am noticing a trend as of late. More and more I'm encountering visitors who ask me what I think about aliens in ancient Egypt, especially aliens helping to build the pyramids. And most of these are adults, mind you. I'm no longer nonplussed about it, I have to admit, but it bothers me. I'm guessing it stems mostly from Ancient Aliens, that ridiculous and pointless farce on the History Channel. I'm also coming across more people who are interested in super-advanced lost technologies, because, as we all know, the ancients simply couldn't have constructed those colossal stone monuments by themselves. Ahem. Speaking to people about why they enjoy the show, they usually like seeing the sites and and details the average person doesn't encounter. For example, it wouldnt be crazy to expect people to have heard of Athens or Sparta. But Knossos or Gobekli Tepe? The MesoAmerican cultures all get sort of blended together, and pushed back in time to be Stone Age or contemporaries of Ancient Egypt in pop culture. Ancient Aliens makes a point of not giving context to what they present, making it easy for people who don't know much about history to get drawn in. And if they try to pursue it themselves, sure you can work it out if you have enough spare time and resources. I have trouble wading through the dross, and I'm not terrible at it. And every day there's more it seems. Edited March 2, 2017 by ShadowSot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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