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Let's talk history


kmt_sesh

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2 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Question for our experts:

 

What was the AE religious view of various metals? Did they assign magical powers to say gold, silver, copper etc?

To an extent, yes, and mostly concerning Re. In their mythology Re's skin was gold, shining like the sun. As a color by itself gold represented the sun and repelled demons. This is why many burial masks and coffin faces had gold plating: to look like Re and to ward off evil. In other cases gold-color pigment was used.

Moreover, Re's hair was lapis lazuli and his bones were made of silver. Lapis was a valuable import and silver was even rarer. Re's gonads were made of Styrofoam. I made up that last one.

Not exactly sure on bronze and copper, but when highly polished they can resemble gold.

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1 minute ago, kmt_sesh said:

To an extent, yes, and mostly concerning Re. In their mythology Re's skin was gold, shining like the sun. As a color by itself gold represented the sun and repelled demons. This is why many burial masks and coffin faces had gold plating: to look like Re and to ward off evil. In other cases gold-color pigment was used.

Moreover, Re's hair was lapis lazuli and his bones were made of silver. Lapis was a valuable import and silver was even rarer. Re's gonads were made of Styrofoam. I made up that last one.

Not exactly sure on bronze and copper, but when highly polished they can resemble gold.

And Isis fashioned a golden phallus for Osiris after the fish ate his original. 

 Of course, your description is textual proof the gods of Egypt were clearly alien robots. 

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16 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

To an extent, yes, and mostly concerning Re. In their mythology Re's skin was gold, shining like the sun. As a color by itself gold represented the sun and repelled demons. This is why many burial masks and coffin faces had gold plating: to look like Re and to ward off evil. In other cases gold-color pigment was used.

Moreover, Re's hair was lapis lazuli and his bones were made of silver. Lapis was a valuable import and silver was even rarer. Re's gonads were made of Styrofoam. I made up that last one.

Not exactly sure on bronze and copper, but when highly polished they can resemble gold.

Reminds me of Plato`s Atlantis  the Atlantians were drowning in metals, while Athens had no need for it .:)

Edited by docyabut2
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Did someone say magical metals ?   :) 

Not that I know of the ancient Egyptian view ,  but , here is some  much later info;

Magicum Electrum - often considered a blend of gold and silver    (  Sun and Moon 'joined' ) 

But the old Tibetan version can be a  blend of up to 7 metals each one mixed in when its planetary aspects are favourable . 

Ideally  the gold and silver for a good Sun Moon aspect , and any other planet included, or if not , later when those planets are aspects well the associated metal would be mixed in.    Hence the 'magical effects '  of  bell and bowl   (unless you get a cheap one made from  ' white metal '  ( old  melted down engine parts, nuts and  bolts, etc  .    ;)  ) 

The modern arrangement seems to be ;

Mercury - mercury (or brass ) ,  Venus - copper , Mars - iron , Jupiter - tin ,  Saturn - lead .  That seems to evolved via Agrippa,  via  Islamic 'hermetic science ' ,  via  ' Alexandrian Synthesis '   via   .....   ?   

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

And Isis fashioned a golden phallus for Osiris after the fish ate his original. 

 Of course, your description is textual proof the gods of Egypt were clearly alien robots. 

Oh, how flattering. Why thank you!

Oops, my bad. I thought you were talking about my...

 

Never mind.

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2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Oh, how flattering. Why thank you!

Oops, my bad. I thought you were talking about my...

 

Never mind.

I mean, according to the story it got... Misplaced. 

 I hope there aren't similarities. O.O

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On 6/16/2017 at 5:56 PM, kmt_sesh said:

To an extent, yes, and mostly concerning Re. In their mythology Re's skin was gold, shining like the sun. As a color by itself gold represented the sun and repelled demons. This is why many burial masks and coffin faces had gold plating: to look like Re and to ward off evil. In other cases gold-color pigment was used.

Moreover, Re's hair was lapis lazuli and his bones were made of silver. Lapis was a valuable import and silver was even rarer. Re's gonads were made of Styrofoam. I made up that last one.

Not exactly sure on bronze and copper, but when highly polished they can resemble gold.

Exactly. In fact, speaking of silver, during the Old Kingdom it was held to be more valuable than gold due to its relative scarcity.  Thus I could imagine that it would have been considered ideal in those days for the pharaohs to be buried with a larger percentage of silver objects as a symbol of their wealth and power.

I am convinced that an intact pyramid burial would have demonstrated this.

Edited by Lord Harry
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Whats up at Orkney ?  Episode  7 

 

Cattle skulls being used as wall 'foundations '  and in some cases ,   parts of human skulls incorporated into the walls . 

 "We've found human skull fragments which seem to be actually built into the structure of the wall, which seems to be pretty unusual and interesting," says Wilson. They also recently made an equally puzzling discovery: at least 10 cattle skulls were inserted in the earth packed within the walls, their horns pointing downwards. "

Unfortunately  some sites at Orkney may soon be gone ;    

Over the last 30 years, the north Atlantic wind has remorselessly swept away thousands of tonnes of sand at Noltland, excavating dunes and finally exposing several thousand years of early human civilisation.But the wind now threatens to destroy the site, which sits just tens of metres from the surf. The gales are becoming more intense.  ...  Since the early 1980s, the land surface at Noltland has dropped by up to 10m (33ft)  .....     

The dig is being led by Hazel Moore and Graeme Wilson, a wife and husband team hired by the site's owners, the government agency Historic Scotland. They have worked on Noltland for 10 years and have watched, with mounting anxiety, as the wind has stripped the site. "It's pretty disastrous," says Moore. "It's just all going; I don't think there's anything we can do to stop it either. This is why we're here. Everything is being stripped away – it's being exposed and washed out. ......    One night, a gale sandblasted the paint off the steel container that doubles as the site office. "

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/aug/28/orkney-archaeological-site

 

... next weeks episode ;    Maes Howe 

 

   Related image                               Related image 

 

 

                                     Related image

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/13/2017 at 9:50 PM, kmt_sesh said:

This thread is not my idea but belongs to another member in my current Akhenaten thread. He suggested a thread in which people could ask questions about history. I think it's a terrific idea. He refers to it as the "AMA (ask me anything) thread." I'm only too happy to oblige but I am not Daniel Jackson, which means I don't know everything about every world civilization, past and present. I reference Dr. Jackson because he seems to know everything about every world culture and language that has existed or exists now (and some beyond this world). I want to be Dr. Jackson when I grow up.

So for this thread to work we will need lots of participation, not just from those asking questions but from those who have the knowledge base to provide answers. For example, my forte is the ancient Near East and especially pharaonic Egypt, but I am admittedly weak on Asian and Mesoamerican history. So if we all pitch in, I think this could be a lively and interesting thread. And along the way perhaps we can dispel some misconceptions and fringe fantasy.

That said, I'll end the OP by turning the discussion over to members who have questions and want to discuss things historical.

Awesome topic thread KMT. I started one of these yearsss ago on here. I'd ha e to look back in the archives to see the responses of people, or maybe I just asked what people's favorite unexplained mystery is and why (I know I did that). Let me read through these tonight and get back to you. Being a history major , you and I could converse about some awesome stuff. Over the years I know one thing for sure, you love your Egyptian history :)

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On 3/14/2017 at 8:56 AM, Jarocal said:

How did they pump water to the top of the hanging gardens in Babylon?

What sort of laser device did the use in Pharoahs lighthouse to set enemy ships on fire?

Why does the Academic Cabal iqnore or bury Cladking's paradigm changing (and entertaining) assertions on a variety of things like Ancient Egyptian construction methods proper contextual understanding of Ancient Egyptian writings?

I know it's said they built their own irrigation system. But I know the interesting part is that their surrounded by sand. Could heir have been hydrology used , drilling underground ? That may be a total stretch but that's one part of history I never researched. 

 

"If the gardens actually existed, it would have taken 8,200 gallons of water each day to keep the plants watered. The gardens were thought to be about 75 feet high."

Edited by LucidElement
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That topic ran to a series of posts and some interesting research .... isnt  it here,   after the post you quoted ?    or was that another thread . 

 

Big water pistons and screws , lack of record was  due to language not having the technical terms but using natural analogies  , later the Greek record used  more 'techno language '      ... in a nutshell .

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So ...     the Mitanni language was neither Iranian, nor Indic but belongs to the Nuristani * .   According to    I. M. DIAKONOFF

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/24048881?seq=1#page_scan_tab_conten

* east Afghanistan in the Hindu Kush  ancient Aryan   '    Vaekeretem  ' or near abouts .   Prehistoric 'mythical' sources ( eg The Vendidad ) speak of Aryan 'nations' spreading from that area to the area of Mitanni  north of the Zagros Mts. ;  ancient 'Rangha ' . 

 Earlier, I spoke about there then being a break in this record ,  the next we hear is very early history, first mention of 'Persians' ; 'Pasa' that emerge from the Zagros down into the valleys feeding the rivers, who meld with Medes and eventually we have 'Persians' .  I thought , maybe a trade network . I could imagine goods like Lapis lazuli starting in Vaekeretem and ending up in Rangha, and eventually Egypt ,  but this language comparison is interesting . 

It is said that at one stage their capital moved east up into a highland of snowy mountains and ice and deep fertile valleys  ( then west, then further west ) 

One of those 'Aryan Para - diz '   

Related image

 

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Where have you been, BTE? It's been too quiet around here without you. Almost...calm.

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23 hours ago, LucidElement said:

Awesome topic thread KMT. I started one of these yearsss ago on here. I'd ha e to look back in the archives to see the responses of people, or maybe I just asked what people's favorite unexplained mystery is and why (I know I did that). Let me read through these tonight and get back to you. Being a history major , you and I could converse about some awesome stuff. Over the years I know one thing for sure, you love your Egyptian history :)

Glad you enjoy the thread. I know there have been others like this one, but they die out and disappear. As this one eventually will.

And yes, I have a slight—ever so slight—interest in ancient Egypt. Or perhaps "obsession" is a better word.

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7 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Where have you been, BTE? It's been too quiet around here without you. Almost...calm.

Lill' ol me ????  

-    the mods banned me and locked me out for a week , strike two .   well, one must assume it was a mod, those big red pages with the lock on them that block you and show 'comments'  dont  actually have any mod ID attached to them .   One assumes they are from the higher egregore  ..... and the WOOBS have not surreptitiously hacked the control codes  ????    :rolleyes:

 

you didnt know     :rolleyes:

 

Excuse me I better get ready for my third swing  

 

 

Image result for shaping up to bat gif

 

DOH !  

Damn American sports !  

  I still cant figure out how   'you guys'     'play the shots' you do '    :wacko:  

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7 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Where have you been, BTE? It's been too quiet around here without you. Almost...calm.

 

...or, instead ,  you could open up constructive dialog on post  # 563    ? ? ?   :rolleyes:

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13 hours ago, back to earth said:

Lill' ol me ????  

-    the mods banned me and locked me out for a week , strike two .   well, one must assume it was a mod, those big red pages with the lock on them that block you and show 'comments'  dont  actually have any mod ID attached to them .   One assumes they are from the higher egregore  ..... and the WOOBS have not surreptitiously hacked the control codes  ????    :rolleyes:

 

you didnt know     :rolleyes:

...

No, I didn't know. I knew about the suspension in May but not this one. I see it in the record now. Which Mod issued it is kept private, of course, but the record explains why it happened. Bad boy!

13 hours ago, back to earth said:

 

...or, instead ,  you could open up constructive dialog on post  # 563    ? ? ?   :rolleyes:

LucidElement's post that's starts with "Awesome topic thread KMT"? That's #563 on my screen. I saw that one and replied to it. Lucid said he was going to read through the thread and get back to us.

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2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

No, I didn't know. I knew about the suspension in May but not this one. I see it in the record now. Which Mod issued it is kept private, of course, but the record explains why it happened. Bad boy!

 

The first one was for fighting in a  .....   'risky manner' 

... come on guys !    'I took one for the team '   ...

as bad as the rest of them    (in this forum )     ;)  

 

2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

LucidElement's post that's starts with "Awesome topic thread KMT"? That's #563 on my screen. I saw that one and replied to it. Lucid said he was going to read through the thread and get back to us.

Huh ? 

You mean its gone from your page  ?  

anywayz  here it is  ; 

 

So ...     the Mitanni language was neither Iranian, nor Indic but belongs to the Nuristani * .   According to    I. M. DIAKONOFF

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/24048881?seq=1#page_scan_tab_conten

* east Afghanistan in the Hindu Kush  ancient Aryan   '    Vaekeretem  ' or near abouts .   Prehistoric 'mythical' sources ( eg The Vendidad ) speak of Aryan 'nations' spreading from that area to the area of Mitanni  north of the Zagros Mts. ;  ancient 'Rangha ' . 

 Earlier, I spoke about there then being a break in this record ,  the next we hear is very early history, first mention of 'Persians' ; 'Pasa' that emerge from the Zagros down into the valleys feeding the rivers, who meld with Medes and eventually we have 'Persians' .  I thought , maybe a trade network . I could imagine goods like Lapis lazuli starting in Vaekeretem and ending up in Rangha, and eventually Egypt ,  but this language comparison is interesting . 

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28 minutes ago, back to earth said:

 

...Huh ? 

You mean its gone from your page  ?  

anywayz  here it is  ; 

 

So ...     the Mitanni language was neither Iranian, nor Indic but belongs to the Nuristani * .   According to    I. M. DIAKONOFF

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/24048881?seq=1#page_scan_tab_conten

* east Afghanistan in the Hindu Kush  ancient Aryan   '    Vaekeretem  ' or near abouts .   Prehistoric 'mythical' sources ( eg The Vendidad ) speak of Aryan 'nations' spreading from that area to the area of Mitanni  north of the Zagros Mts. ;  ancient 'Rangha ' . 

 Earlier, I spoke about there then being a break in this record ,  the next we hear is very early history, first mention of 'Persians' ; 'Pasa' that emerge from the Zagros down into the valleys feeding the rivers, who meld with Medes and eventually we have 'Persians' .  I thought , maybe a trade network . I could imagine goods like Lapis lazuli starting in Vaekeretem and ending up in Rangha, and eventually Egypt ,  but this language comparison is interesting . 

It's possible as a Mod I see a different post count than you do. I did read that post, and on my screen it isn't #563 but #566. It's an interesting post and I've been trying to think of a useful comment. The Mitanni were one of the chief military rivals of Egypt for a time, and vied for control of territory in the northern Levant. They were never really a far-reaching civilization but were powerful, and drew on Indic populations for part of their power base. I'm not familiar with Diakonoff's work and shall have to read that article (I see it;s free with my limited JSTOR account).

I'm not well versed on the Hurrian language, other than that there's still not a lot we understand about it. That it would have an Indic base isn't surprising. It certainly doesn't belong to the families of languages in the immediate neighborhood. Is Diakonoff saying the Mitanni were somehow connected with the rise of the Persians? Not sure if I'm reading that right. I know, I have to read the article. Will you read it to me? In costume?

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3 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

It's possible as a Mod I see a different post count than you do. I did read that post, and on my screen it isn't #563 but #566. It's an interesting post and I've been trying to think of a useful comment. The Mitanni were one of the chief military rivals of Egypt for a time, and vied for control of territory in the northern Levant. They were never really a far-reaching civilization but were powerful, and drew on Indic populations for part of their power base. I'm not familiar with Diakonoff's work and shall have to read that article (I see it;s free with my limited JSTOR account).

I'm not well versed on the Hurrian language, other than that there's still not a lot we understand about it. That it would have an Indic base isn't surprising. It certainly doesn't belong to the families of languages in the immediate neighborhood. Is Diakonoff saying the Mitanni were somehow connected with the rise of the Persians?

I dont think so .  Persians came later ...  after the 'collapse' (?)  of the 'old Empire' , that perhaps Mitanni was part of or related to ? 

That Afghani lapis lazuli got to Egypt somehow . 

 

Quote

 

 

Not sure if I'm reading that right. I know, I have to read the article. Will you read it to me? In costume?

Ha !  Have you ever seen that old tv English series 'This  Is history !  "   It had a lame history teacher that would try to get his class interested by doing his own bad enactments in stupid home made costumes .  It always went wrong, of course .

 One time he took them on a dig in a field;  " There was a battle here, dig around, you might find an arrow head or something ."

One girl starts and ...   ' Ewwwwww  !  "  and he 'What ... what is it .....   a human skull !   Amazing ... let me see it  .. ah yes, probably Roman I would say and .... "

Girl, still digging :   " Ewwww ...  ewww  ...  EWWWW !  "

" Now what ? Stop being silly, its just archaeology , what have you found now ."

" A backpack !   "  

(i used to love that show , cant seem to find a trace of it now . ) 

Edited by back to earth
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1 minute ago, back to earth said:

I dont think so .  Persians came later ...  after the 'collapse' (?)  of the 'old Empire' , that perhaps Mitanni was part of or related to ? 

That Afghani lapis lazuli got to Egypt somehow . 

That was exactly the problem I would've had with it, too. The difference in time, I mean. Now, the Persians and the Medes? Ethnically and linguistically they were probably related. I've read a theory that the Medes might've been the ancestors of today's Kurds. But the Mitanni, I'm willing to bet, were ethnically and linguistically mixed, to some extent. They were the descendants of those folks who built the Great Pyramid to store liquid hydrogen (tee-hee!).

Quote

Ha !  Have you ever seen that old tv English series 'This  Is history !  "   It had a lame history teacher that would try to get his class interested by doing his own bad enactments in stupid home made costumes .  It always went wrong, of course .

 One time he took them on a dig in a field;  " There was a battle here, dig around, you might kind an arrow head or something ."

One girl starts  ' Ewwwwww  !  "  and he 'What ... what is it .....   a human skull !   Amazing ... let me see it  .. ah yes, probably Roman I would say and .... "

Girl, still digging :   " Ewwww ...  ewww  ...  EWWWW !  "

" Now what ? Stop being silly, its just archaeology , what have you found now ."

" A backpack !   "  

(i used to love that show , cant seem to find a trace of it now . ) 

I don't think I know that show. Was it just in Australia? The backpack bit cracked me up.

Reminds me of a true account of some farmer in northern Europe whose wife just totally disappeared. Eventually someone found a decomposing body on his farm land. He admitted to having killed and buried his wife out there...only to learn after the fact that the body was that of an ancient bog mummy.

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25 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

That was exactly the problem I would've had with it, too. The difference in time, I mean. Now, the Persians and the Medes? Ethnically and linguistically they were probably related.

Thats my prob ... I am bad with timelines ... and comparative timelines.  So I dont rreally know what you mean

(Confession ; I was hoping someone would sprout up   ' Noooo ,, the dates are .....    "  )

I thought the emergence of the Parsa  from the Zagros south into the lower T&G rivers area was the first recorded trace of them in history (by the Babylonians ? ), then, as the  Babylonian power ebbed  media started to fill the vacuum. The Parsa then joined in with them and ....   the ....  ( damn , I running of memory here   )  and then 'Persia' emerged ( as an eventual outcome of the old collapsed Aryan 'network' .  )

yes folks ....  ' This is History !   '        ( Where is that costume ? )  

 

Image result for Pishdadian King

Painting of Husheng in the Shahnama of Shah Tahmasp.

'Caucasian'    'Chinese' mummies anyone ? 

 

 

 

 .  

25 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

 

 

(teI've read a theory that the Medes might've been the ancestors of today's Kurds. But the Mitanni, I'm willing to bet, were ethnically and linguistically mixed, to some extent. They were the descendants of those folks who built the Great Pyramid to store liquid hydrogene-hee!).

I don't think I know that show. Was it just in Australia? The backpack bit cracked me up.

Reminds me of a true account of some farmer in northern Europe whose wife just totally disappeared. Eventually someone found a decomposing body on his farm land. He admitted to having killed and buried his wife out there...only to learn after the fact that the body was that of an ancient bog mummy.

 

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21 hours ago, back to earth said:

Thats my prob ... I am bad with timelines ... and comparative timelines.  So I dont rreally know what you mean

 

 

 

 .  

 

Not a timeline expert either but let me give it a shot.

Kmt thread four months old and under 600 posts.

Light speed thread 2weeks old and more than 600 posts.

Where I think the comparative part comes in is when you look at the number of views for each thread (currently 14k+ for Kmt and under 7k for lightspeed) what can be inferred from that is many people peruse a kmt thread with foresight that a lucid, cogent, and informative post will edify them. They click on it, are educated, do not have much to add to his thorough and illuminating assertion then unfortunately the pearl is cast before the swine and is gobbled up by a seemingly more popular thread which in reality has less views and more posts because participants need repeatedly request answers to their questions or evidence refuting a rebuttal they made to an unsubstantiated conjecture.

Oh wait we were talking timelines in the Levant. Disregard the above...

Edited by Jarocal
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I meant historical timelines     ...      not hysterical timelines . 

 

 

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