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kmt_sesh

Let's talk history

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Posted (edited)

24 minutes ago, back to earth said:

HUH ?    Stonehenge is a tower of silence ? !     Is that what someone is claiming ?  He must be an Indian Parsee in the Indian Nationalist Party Advocating Zoroastrian Out Of India theory all the way to Orkney ?   :D  

Image result for stennes ring of brodgar

 

google mike parker pearson, josh and cali dave....  all about exposure

vit all dem axes on da schtonz didn't they conclude its indo-europeans? so why not exposure? zoroastrian is persian, ganj dareh even. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/07/worlds-first-farmers-were-surprisingly-diverse. it was one of these ganj derah folks that shares ydna with the mother goddess worshipers from willendorf cz

ultimately what it would show is that yima lived somewhere between london and tehran surprise surprise. where is the middle. i think that vara on orkney in the picture above  is extra indicative. wink

 

peace

Edited by cern

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13 hours ago, Totah Dine said:

This is a fallacy.  Most people don't know this but the Apache and Navajo are actually different bands of the same tribe.  We can converse with each other and understand each other.  There are some words and phrases that are a bit different.  Each band tends to borrow language from the other tribes around them and incorporate them into their particular dialect.  I have had conversations with White Mountain and Jicarilla Apache on several occasions.  I had to concentrate but it's pretty much the same language.  

I know this won't matter to you much but we're not Indians.  People from India are Indians.  We are not from India.  Speaking for myself calling me an "Indian" is quite offensive.  Right up there with "Redskin".  Just sayin'

I've also heard stories of captive Navajos during WWII were questioned by the Japanese and were thought to be of Japanese descent.  There are some words that seem similar but that happens in any language.  There's a word in Japanese, Nandesuka that is similar to a Navajo word nandeskaadi  which means tortilla.  The Navajo and Apache are Athabaskan and our language is an athabaskan derivative.  We came from the North.  Something bad happened because to this day North is the direction of spirits or evil.  When a relative dies in a home it's customary to break out the north wall and then the house is abandoned.  It's considered a ghost house from that point on.  It's considered a bad omen if a coyote crosses your path going North.  North is bad. I think my ancestors fled Western Canada due to a natural disaster or encroaching tribes that threatened to wipe them out.  

There is a hypothetical relation to Siberia ( Dené–Yeniseian) and Athabaskan languages but not intelligible enough to converse.  Tartar is a Turkic language and has no relationship to Dené–Yeniseian or Athabaskan dialects.  Personally I think the gentleman in question heard the Apaches gossiping among themselves and decided it sounded "Chinese".  Then made up the rest.  The fact he said Tartar should be evidence enough of his ignorance regarding linguistics.  

 

Thanks :)  ... as i said I am no linguist . But with the local (main area ) indigenous people's  (and they like to be called  ' Koori / s ' ) similar dynamics that you outline seem to be in play.    The paper I saw comparing Indonesian , I thought mush as you outlined - similarities .  ... besides, the whole thing seemed nearly like a discrediting of local indigenous and pushed their arrival foreward many thousands of years  ( IF it was correct )  , 

Intersting what you said about the north . It reminds me of a GREAT film I saw  ( Pacific islander film )  'The Man That Went South' . I mean, I thought it was great ; no shootem up bang bang car chases ... simple island life,  a man on his journey of self discovery, lots of walking, paddling, hunting, not much dialogue and a fantastic  meeting of 'strangers'  from the north , the east and the west )  . 

Great stuff .... and a very interesting comment on human nature !   ; 

" Dont go east , those men are parrot ****ers ! "

" But the easterners told me not to west because you are turtle ****ers ."

"What ?!  We dont do that , the liars  ! "

" But you say they **** parrots. "

'Ahh yes but they  do   do that ! " 

(The only difference I could detect was that the eastern   dress - a type  of pounded bark cloth material / sarong  - had  squares block printed on it and the western one the squares were overlaid on each other .   One man ' Whats wrong with your   Masi ( bark cloth sarong )  "   - gives him a strange look -   :D . ) 

Could the 'bad' north direction  relate to  seasons ? 

 

Ps.  MWoo  is a young lady .   

 

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Totah Dine said:

Personally I feel anyone born here is native American.  I prefer First Nation.  It just seems more equitable all around.  

And as I understand it 'America' is a pretty big place ... not just the USA  ( I always wonder why people from USA have no national name for themselves without appropriating the one that covers 2 continents and many many other countries ? ) . 

' Fist Nation' sounds 'nice and political'    ......   maybe some of the indigenous here could adopt that   ;) 

It has become rather an issue here ... We got peeps white as a ghost going around saying 'I am Aboriginal'  ..... legally it was supposed to be 1/8 ancestory / acceptance & acknowledgement ... all very confusing .  A recent developing trend sounds better IMO ;

eg;   ' I am Bundjalung  "   or  " I am Gunbayngirr  "   , etc .      and   " I am of Bundjalung  descent ."  

 

EDIT:    FIRST nation I meant   :D   .... but I will let the above stand as it is 

Image result for black power salute

Edited by back to earth
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4 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

I am. But fortunately for me, Totah Dine has already explained this is great detail. The only person claiming modern Chinese and any First Nation languages are similar is someone with a book/website/fringe doodad to sell you, probably for $19.95.

--Jaylemurph

Who am I to say yes or no on such a subject ... I was waiting for someone linguist and / or with 'authority' .  MWOO did say  :" ...and you be lucky to be left standing if they hear you say that . " 

Lets consider that she got off lightly .   .... and I dont think he is selling books. 

Lets just give her whats she used to .....

Image result for tinkerbell spank gif

 

;)  

 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Pearl shell trade routes?

And here I thought it was your secret maps to all of the best party spots Down Under.

 

 In a  way  it is .  

Related image

( modern 'dance party' goes all night .... p f f f t  ! .... these guys can go for 3 days straight  ! ) 

 

But that isnt the secret map  ...... here is the 'secret map' ; 

 

Image result for aboriginal  trade routes

 

Shhhhhhhhhh     ;)  

Edited by back to earth
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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Pearl shell trade routes?

And here I thought it was your secret maps to all of the best party spots Down Under.

941992_orig.gif

 

And Dude !   That aint no outback whitefellah party car !   

You might need  

Image result for car equipped for australian outback tour

 

Or  "if you blackfellah "  ; 

Image result for bush mechanics tv

 

(  :D    often the 2nd type has to rescue the 1st type  :D  ) 

Edited by back to earth
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37 minutes ago, back to earth said:

And as I understand it 'America' is a pretty big place ... not just the USA  ( I always wonder why people from USA have no national name for themselves without appropriating the one that covers 2 continents and many many other countries ? ) . 

...

"Americans" just has a nice, easy ring to it. Nothing else really works. United Statesians? United Staters? No, that sounds like a soccer (football) team. Mexico lends itself well to Mexicans, and Cuba to Cubans, and Guatemala to Guatemalans, and Canada to Canadians, and United States to...Americans. Although I think a lot of Brits still think of us as Colonials, but that's so eighteenth century.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, cern said:

google mike parker pearson, josh and cali dave....  all about exposure

vit all dem axes on da schtonz didn't they conclude its indo-europeans? so why not exposure? zoroastrian is persian, ganj dareh even. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/07/worlds-first-farmers-were-surprisingly-diverse. it was one of these ganj derah folks that shares ydna with the mother goddess worshipers from willendorf cz

ultimately what it would show is that yima lived somewhere between london and tehran surprise surprise. where is the middle. i think that vara on orkney in the picture above  is extra indicative. wink

 

peace

Oooooo  no ... the 'vara'  was   specifically designed for colder climates and ....    ohhh     :unsure:

.....  actually , its still there  !       ( thats the thing about archaeology ;) ) 

  images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnwIfM3ACNy-lDDT9vbtH                          

 

~   Yima ?   'Man'  or     stage in development   ?    As far as  'Aryan' (proper) origins go, I like the  big melting pot from the western foothills of the Pamirs *  around the upper Oxus Basin around to the Kara - kum desert  and NE Iran. 

 

But , what did the 'air burial peoples' do  in the desert with no  mountain tops ? 

 

Related image

 Zoroastrian tower of silence in Karakum desert Uzbekistan

 

.....   Now that's a tower of silence !

( I got a distribution map of them  and the 'platforms for worship'  - interesting . ) 

 

*  Ahhhh  what the heck, I chuck this in as well ;

 

 Image result for airyana vaeja zoroastrian heritage institute

 

Image result for pamir mountains zoroastrian heritage institute

 

Edited by back to earth
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Oh yeah .... Zoroastrian isnt 'Persian'  .... they were around (supposedly) way before there were any Persians ... or even ' Parsa ' .  If anything they were (or he was )  an Afghan  ..... or a Bactrian ... or    (how far back we gonna go  ? ) 

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Just now, back to earth said:

Oh yeah .... Zoroastrian isnt 'Persian'  .... they were around (supposedly) way before there were any Persians ... or even ' Parsa ' .  If anything they were (or he was )  an Afghan  ..... or a Bactrian ... or    (how far back we gonna go  ? ) 

https://sussingstonehenge.wordpress.com/tag/excarnation/

for the birds. i love the internet. it makes me raff. mike parker pearson and excarnation.

yima... 7th menu [manu] yes. what date? 5000 years before troy plus 33 generations before that.  puts him anywhere geographically as long as he was near a melting glacier.

the real vara would of course still exist and be perfectly preserved.  scientists might call it something silly like the garden of eden etc however. silly scientists.

 

peace

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20 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

"Americans" just has a nice, easy ring to it. Nothing else really works. United Statesians? United Staters? No, that sounds like a soccer (football) team. Mexico lends itself well to Mexicans, and Cuba to Cubans, and Guatemala to Guatemalans, and Canada to Canadians, and United States to...Americans. Although I think a lot of Brits still think of us as Colonials, but that's so eighteenth century.

No ... sorry ... I accuse you of not having a name and  cultural mass appropriation !    :angry: 

Anyway , your new Pres might fix that ..... I hear he is going to re name the country after he fixes up your old constitution ? 

 

Related image

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5 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Oh yeah .... Zoroastrian isnt 'Persian'  .... they were around (supposedly) way before there were any Persians ... or even ' Parsa ' .  If anything they were (or he was )  an Afghan  ..... or a Bactrian ... or    (how far back we gonna go  ? ) 

I am not well versed on the particulars of Zoroastrianism, but I recall reading that based on supposed linguistic evidence the earliest for Zoroaster would be around 1500 BCE, although 1000 BCE seems more agreed (from what i recall). The latest would probably be around the seventh century BCE. A lot of these dates come from the writings of Greeks from late antiquity, so that calls into question their veracity. Other Greek sources place Zoroaster at around 6000 BCE, which of course I wouldn't take seriously. I do recall, however, that he is thought to have come from ancient Iran.

This is all off the top of my shiny head, so some fact-checking might be called for.

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2 minutes ago, back to earth said:

No ... sorry ... I accuse you of not having a name and  cultural mass appropriation !    :angry: 

Anyway , your new Pres might fix that ..... I hear he is going to re name the country after he fixes up your old constitution ? 

 

Related image

Yes, that's right, I forgot. We are now to call ourselves Trumpites. Alternatively it's permissible to use the term "Supplicants of the Orange Demigod." Just the same, a more popular term is now "Acolytes of the Angry Orange Toddler."

And in crafting this satire, I hope I'm not starting a political discussion here. I stay away from that section of UM for a reason!

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12 minutes ago, cern said:

https://sussingstonehenge.wordpress.com/tag/excarnation/

for the birds. i love the internet. it makes me raff. mike parker pearson and excarnation.

Good Mazda !  WTF  ... that goes against SO many Zoroastrian and  pre vedic / Zoroastrian religions precepts ..... ! 

May as well did what they did in the Thames and just throw the bodies in a river   ... any Zoroastrian that did that could well  be thrown live into  a tower of silence ! 

A lovely way to go 

Spoiler

Related image

12 minutes ago, cern said:

yima... 7th menu [manu] yes. what date? 5000 years before troy plus 33 generations before that.  puts him anywhere geographically as long as he was near a melting glacier.

the real vara would of course still exist and be perfectly preserved.  scientists might call it something silly like the garden of eden etc however. silly scientists.

 

peace

 You mean Para diz .... Airyana Vaeja .....   how about a melting glacier all around ... like in the  steep Pamir Valleys  (which 'just happen' to have the main north 'Silk Route' Path through to Kalmarkin Desert  ( and  another more southern 'short cut '   without having to go near 'Turan'   ( later  :  'Sughda' , then Sugd  and eventually - to the Greeks, Sogdiana)   ... damn Turkics  backstabbers  !  :angry:

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27 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

I am not well versed on the particulars of Zoroastrianism, but I recall reading that based on supposed linguistic evidence the earliest for Zoroaster would be around 1500 BCE, although 1000 BCE seems more agreed (from what i recall). The latest would probably be around the seventh century BCE. A lot of these dates come from the writings of Greeks from late antiquity, so that calls into question their veracity. Other Greek sources place Zoroaster at around 6000 BCE, which of course I wouldn't take seriously. I do recall, however, that he is thought to have come from ancient Iran.

This is all off the top of my shiny head, so some fact-checking might be called for.

Hard to check facts as it is pre history , the first historical account seems to be  about the 'Pars' emerging from the Zargos into mesopotamia ( and for some reasons, the ' Aria peoples'  never did that before, nor visa versa ) .  They  got pushed into the Medes ( I think, formed alliances and eventually we had Persians taking over the area. 

Earlier sources are heroic epics, myth and scripture ; particularly Vendidad, Shahnameh , etc .

Confused dates may have come about due to Zoroaster actually being a reformer of an already established 'Zoroaster-like'  Aryan religion instead of an originator. 

Zoroaster, as far as I know was always tagged as from near present Afghanistan , not Iran.  It seems their ' capitol '  (homeland , origin, whatever it was  ...... translates as 'first nation' .... but 'nation '  ????  )   was further to the east.  Then it moved west into the southern Kara-kum  ( Turan was supposedly the first 'country' to receive him and his message  and thats pretty much directly north, top silk road east gate / Samarkand area ) .

The first king to accept was Vistasp  ( ? sic  .... sorry , I going off the top of my fuzzy  head here )   and said to be in the area of Bactria. 

Then  the centre for the Arians moved further west into ' Iran' . 

East of Iran, there has been a lot going on there for a long time and we know little about it ; 

Image result for archeology of central asia

 

Image result for archeology of central asia small figures

modelled. cm Namazga (V). millennium BC Excavations by V.M. Masson, Southern Turkmenia, Altyn-Depe Settlement Central Asia State Hermitage Museum ”

 

4asia428

 

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/ancient-towns-excavated-turkmenistan

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Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, back to earth said:

 You mean Para diz .... Airyana Vaeja .....   how about a melting glacier all around ... like in the  steep Pamir Valleys  (which 'just happen' to have the main north 'Silk Route' Path through to Kalmarkin Desert  ( and  another more southern 'short cut '   without having to go near 'Turan'   ( later  :  'Sughda' , then Sugd  and eventually - to the Greeks, Sogdiana)   ... damn Turkics  backstabbers  !  :angry:

yes the pari-dhi in paridhi-stha.  vourukasa was a big freshwater sea. its flooding destroyed humanity right.  all you have to do is find a huge vara built around 7500bc. should be easy since it was designed to survive the destruction of humanity.

peace

Edited by cern

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errrmmm  ... designed to survive  a 'cold period' in the climate  maybe  ? 

Not sure they did the job  ... as they had  move 'down hill'  and to the west . 

I postulate a 'cold snap', a big freeze and drying , then a warming, melts and some resultant flooding  (in the target area )  ...

 

Take your pick ;

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21 minutes ago, cern said:

yes the pari-dhi in paridhi-stha.  vourukasa was a big freshwater sea. its flooding destroyed humanity right.  all you have to do is find a huge vara built around 7500bc. should be easy since it was designed to survive the destruction of humanity.

peace

  Translation query  ;     'Fresh' water  , or 'sweet' water ?  . 

The Persian Gulf was known in Sassanian times to be sweet water  ,  due to tidal flush and winds clearing its surface . 

If you can show me a pic from the Bundahishn or something  and correlate it to a landform map    (like I did for the Buddhist tanka and  Airyana Vaeja   ;)  )   we might get less 'mythological' . 

 

 

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Just now, back to earth said:

errrmmm  ... designed to survive  a 'cold period' in the climate  maybe  ? 

Not sure they did the job  ... as they had  move 'down hill'  and to the west . 

I postulate a 'cold snap', a big freeze and drying , then a warming, melts and some resultant flooding  (in the target area )  ...

 

Take your pick ;

my pick would be to start somewhere around 10000 bc.

11640bp1.gif?w=700&h=&crop=1&ssl=1

 where was there biblical damage. from willendorf to tehran for sure 

 

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... and again , a vara is supposed to be 'in ground' and protection from very cold winters .... not a  ' Noah's ark '  against flooding . 

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Just now, back to earth said:

... and again , a vara is supposed to be 'in ground' and protection from very cold winters .... not a  ' Noah's ark '  against flooding . 

if you want to get right into it and give everyone their say then noah used the wood from the first in ground "ark" to build his.

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8 minutes ago, cern said:

my pick would be to start somewhere around 10000 bc.

11640bp1.gif?w=700&h=&crop=1&ssl=1

 where was there biblical damage. from willendorf to tehran for sure 

 

 

You dont see a link with horse domestication and Andronova and related cultures ? 

Younger dryas have been postulated , but IMO too early . Then it seems to be warming up to Piora Oscillation , cold and horse domestication . 

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8 minutes ago, cern said:

if you want to get right into it and give everyone their say then noah used the wood from the first in ground "ark" to build his.

Ha!  Noah was invented by some released Jews that concocted a political story to take home to whip pagan **** in line.  The 'one God' idea, and the  survival stories, ark/vara , floods   is a patch up concoction :) 

.... or was there some massive flood tale   :unsure:     .....     hmmmmm .... maybe 'Mesopotamian' ? 

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Just now, back to earth said:

 

You dont see a link with horse domestication and Andronova and related cultures ? 

Younger dryas have been postulated , but IMO too early . Then it seems to be warming up to Piora Oscillation , cold and horse domestication . 

yima built the first circular vara in a time when he was having problems with lots of cows and with fire. he kept digging a bigger water break for the fire and cows until finally one was wide enough... just in time for the freeze and flood that would destroy it. he built his inground rectangular vara to survive. 

yes i see a horse race track around trypillian "cities". but if i was looking for yima and the homeland of the indo-europeans i would look for the perfect place for an ambitious ancient man

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, back to earth said:

.... or was there some massive flood tale   :unsure:     .....     hmmmmm .... maybe 'Mesopotamian' ? 

harali where was the freshwater sea abzu and its rectangular abzu enclosure, was a far off place to the west. it was the underworld but before its catastrophe it was paradise

pen2.png

this is the place that survived the destruction of humanity. 

Edited by cern

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