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stereologist

Continued belief in a flat Earth

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The idea of a flat Earth is quite old. That idea was quickly dropped by the majority of people when they traveled. People noticed that the stars changed position and ships disappeared from hull to mast as they sailed away. The astrolabe was invented millennia ago to solve problems on a circle to allow navigators to know where they were.

Then again today there are a few people that are so into conspiracy nonsense that they grasp onto anything at all that is counter to the norm. Here we have a basketball player as sure the rapper from last year that the world is flat. This is believed despite traveling around the world and only being able to see a small piece at a time.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kyrie-irving-doubles-down-on-his-flat-earth-theory-and-can-now-control-his-dreams-022633638.html

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Kyrie Irving believes the Earth is flat. He doubled down during another appearance on the Road Trippin’ podcast with Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye, taking issue with media and scientists dismissing his conspiracy theory as nonsense.

Quote

that statement came from somebody who minutes later cited the national debt as evidence the Illuminati runs the world.

I find it interesting that someone would believe this nonsense of a flat Earth when any of us can determine for ourselves that the Earth is not flat.

1. I can see that ships moving away or towards us disappear and appear from top to bottom.

2. I can only see a limited distance from a mountain top or plane.

3. I can see that the stars change position as I move to differnet places on the Earth.

4. I can see that the shadow of the Earth on the Moon during an eclipse is round no matter where I've been on the Earth.

5. I can see that all of the other celestial objects are round no matter when or where I viewed them.

So why is there this persistent belief in something shown to be incorrect thousands of years ago?

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How can I resist ;

* bad language warning * 

Spoiler

 

 

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 " ....   and , why is it we cant go to Antarctica ? "       :D  :D    

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Flat earthers are a special kind of stupid, many seem to be superstitious and take the Bible literally.

Not only can you go to the Antarctic there are tourist sight seeing flights.

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49 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Flat earthers are a special kind of stupid, many seem to be superstitious and take the Bible literally.

Not only can you go to the Antarctic there are tourist sight seeing flights.

I've always kinda suspected that the existence of flat earthers is a myth.  I recall seeing that there was a list of forty of them, but maybe so, maybe not.

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I have to say I like the idea of an infinite but flat surface.  The possibilities for culture and species variety, etc., are enormous.  Of course, an SF author inventing such a universe would have to deal with all sorts of physical problems, or find a way to ignore them (authors can't just ignore obvious questions in fiction, but you can deal with them all sorts of ways beyond finding believable physics).

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28 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

I've always kinda suspected that the existence of flat earthers is a myth.  I recall seeing that there was a list of forty of them, but maybe so, maybe not.

There are hundreds of Youtube videos from flat earthers. Some videos even claim Tesla was one (which his research contradicts), and that Trump is a flat earther.

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I find Flat Earth hilarious. It's right up there with the lizard person conspiracy, and Illuminati fanatics. No amount of evidence can ever change their tiny little minds, so I choose to view all their content as comedy. And man, when you need a good laugh there are few things better than a flat earth video on youtube.

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One of the interesting things I learned was that the smallest structure I am aware of that needs to take into account Earth's curvature is the Narrows Verrazano bridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verrazano–Narrows_Bridge#Statistics

That's pretty interesting. I also read about how lakes are not flat. I wondered about using a laser point on a small lake to determine how high a laser pointer had to be raised to reflect off of a reflector placed on the water's surface on the far side on a calm night. The curved surface of the water, i.e. curvature of the Earth, is a 'bump' that hides the far shore.

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17 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

I've always kinda suspected that the existence of flat earthers is a myth.  I recall seeing that there was a list of forty of them, but maybe so, maybe not.

Friend of mine ...  her boyfriend is one . 

Guy I was talking to the other day in a clothing store went on about how stupid it was and somehow ended up ranting to me about mammoths down in a hole in the  North Pole !   He even grabbed my arm when I tried to escape !    He followed me outside on to the street and kept going. But I bolted.  I saw him the next day and someone had  taken some of his stuff he left inside when he followed me outside .   :D 

Then he goes :  " Did you take it ?"

.....  :huh:  dude !  ... I was outside with you and you saw me walk off   .... wtf  ?   :wacko:

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On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 1:38 PM, stereologist said:

So why is there this persistent belief in something shown to be incorrect thousands of years ago?

My view is that some people need a mystery to unlock or something to discover as yet undiscovered.  They read or watch about those who discover something and long for that.

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On 15/3/2017 at 5:38 PM, stereologist said:

The idea of a flat Earth is quite old. That idea was quickly dropped by the majority of people when they traveled. People noticed that the stars changed position and ships disappeared from hull to mast as they sailed away. The astrolabe was invented millennia ago to solve problems on a circle to allow navigators to know where they were.

Then again today there are a few people that are so into conspiracy nonsense that they grasp onto anything at all that is counter to the norm. Here we have a basketball player as sure the rapper from last year that the world is flat. This is believed despite traveling around the world and only being able to see a small piece at a time.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kyrie-irving-doubles-down-on-his-flat-earth-theory-and-can-now-control-his-dreams-022633638.html

I find it interesting that someone would believe this nonsense of a flat Earth when any of us can determine for ourselves that the Earth is not flat.

1. I can see that ships moving away or towards us disappear and appear from top to bottom.

2. I can only see a limited distance from a mountain top or plane.

3. I can see that the stars change position as I move to differnet places on the Earth.

4. I can see that the shadow of the Earth on the Moon during an eclipse is round no matter where I've been on the Earth.

5. I can see that all of the other celestial objects are round no matter when or where I viewed them.

So why is there this persistent belief in something shown to be incorrect thousands of years ago?

That's the beauty of science. 

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My grandmother was a flat earther. Then again she was raised a devout Mennonite in Saskatchewan where it is flat as a pancake.

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I've been around the world twice and the ship never fell off the edge, but there was a definite bump when we crossed the equator  (if you believe that lol)

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There was someone arguing that we should be respectful of flat-earthers. 

I'm in agreement with Rlyeh that they are a special kind of stupid and I think they deserve any ridicule they get. 

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6 hours ago, spud the mackem said:

I've been around the world twice and the ship never fell off the edge, but there was a definite bump when we crossed the equator  (if you believe that lol)

Spud  !   Ya nut !   You forgot to install the bow to stern runner hoop, so the line of the Equator dont get caught up in yer propellers ! 

Someone get this guy a new freighter !   

Also, watch out whne ya goin E / W  as well on the ocean, the International Date Line  is now in a different position, since it got  relaid last year 

 

Image result for under boat cable deflectors

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I can stand on top of Narbona Pass and see the curvature.  It's not that hard to verify.  O. o

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If we were brought up to think the earth was a cube would we believe it too?

It's interesting what knowledge we take for granted.

Can you honestly say, hand on heart you know what shape the Earth is?  

Then tell me how it is you know such things.

You might surprise yourself with your own answer.

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7 minutes ago, taniwha said:

 

If we were brought up to think the earth was a cube would we believe it too?

It's interesting what knowledge we take for granted.

Can you honestly say, hand on heart you know what shape the Earth is?  

Then tell me how it is you know such things.

You might surprise yourself with your own answer.

What I can tell is that the Earth is not flat. One of the ways I can tell is that when I travel the stars change position. The North star is higher and lower as I change position. Simple geometry tells me that effect cannot happen on a flat Earth. I can also see ships sink below the horizon. That can't happen on a flat Earth. Even if I can't tell the shape of the Earth I can verify and have verified that the Earth is not flat.

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7 minutes ago, stereologist said:

What I can tell is that the Earth is not flat. One of the ways I can tell is that when I travel the stars change position. The North star is higher and lower as I change position. Simple geometry tells me that effect cannot happen on a flat Earth. I can also see ships sink below the horizon. That can't happen on a flat Earth. Even if I can't tell the shape of the Earth I can verify and have verified that the Earth is not flat.

The stars change position even when you don't travel so I'm not sure that counts.  That effect might if the sky is curved or if a flat earth rotates. There is a limit to how far the eye sees.

But I like your answer.

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31 minutes ago, taniwha said:

The stars change position even when you don't travel so I'm not sure that counts.  That effect might if the sky is curved or if a flat earth rotates. There is a limit to how far the eye sees.

But I like your answer.

If you watch the stars they do not change position without you moving. The stars rise and set on the same places on the horizon in a reliable manner. If you travel north and south the stars no longer rise and set in the same direction.

To be correct there is a change in the position of the stars over years time. That is due to the precession of the Earth's axis. It was noticed that after decades of time had passed the star charts had to be reworked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

At night I can go out and see that stars to the north, since I am in the northern hemisphere, rise and fall in reliable positions year round. Stars to south also do that even if I cannot see them year round. If I move north or south the positions of the stars change, meaning that they rise and set in different directions. There are some stars that no longer rise and set if I head far enough north. These are stars that are closer to the north star. Move north and the north star is higher in the sky. Move south and the north star is lower in the sky.

The only way that the stars can change in that manner is if the Earth is not flat.

The eye can certainly see ships out miles. We see that the ships disappear bottom first. The tops of ships can be seen long before the larger hull is visible. Here is a simple calculator showing how close the horizon is.

http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/distance.htm

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Flat earthers seem to think all the stars move around Polaris, even their champion Eric Dubay claims stars in the southern hemisphere circle Polaris. Time lapsed photos of the night sky in the southern hemisphere completely refutes this.

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9 hours ago, stereologist said:

If you watch the stars they do not change position without you moving. The stars rise and set on the same places on the horizon in a reliable manner. If you travel north and south the stars no longer rise and set in the same direction.

To be correct there is a change in the position of the stars over years time. That is due to the precession of the Earth's axis. It was noticed that after decades of time had passed the star charts had to be reworked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

At night I can go out and see that stars to the north, since I am in the northern hemisphere, rise and fall in reliable positions year round. Stars to south also do that even if I cannot see them year round. If I move north or south the positions of the stars change, meaning that they rise and set in different directions. There are some stars that no longer rise and set if I head far enough north. These are stars that are closer to the north star. Move north and the north star is higher in the sky. Move south and the north star is lower in the sky.

The only way that the stars can change in that manner is if the Earth is not flat.

The eye can certainly see ships out miles. We see that the ships disappear bottom first. The tops of ships can be seen long before the larger hull is visible. Here is a simple calculator showing how close the horizon is.

http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/distance.htm

You raise some valid points that would be difficult to counter act with logic.

But did you not know that in times long past the sun would rise from a deep hole in the ocean?  It would spend all it's time and energy travelling across the sky, and then, exhausted it would retire into the hole where it would get some much needed sleep.

Or so the alternate truth goes...B)

Anyway there is little doubt that the skill of the Polynesian navigators were second to none.  They did also  sail "Te Awaroa" - "The Great River" by night, better known by you and me as "The Milky Way".  

It does make me wonder, before technology shrunk the earth in size, if they had calculated it's shape correctly through applied observations?

There's a good chance yes. 
How profoundly did the knowledge impact their society?  We're there still unbelievers?

I also wonder how those discussions went and what conclusions were reached?  

How much discovery can be credited to chasing a myth? 

How much superstition had to be overcome? 

What powerful supernatural forces and magic were invoked to successfully venture the unknown?  That would be a story in itself!

Wouldn't it be great to be a fly on the wall of history?

Even an ancient Polynesian navigator might  consider a flat earther as interestingly peculiar.

By the way, thanks for the great nautical link.

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11 hours ago, taniwha said:

 

If we were brought up to think the earth was a cube would we believe it too?

It's interesting what knowledge we take for granted.

Can you honestly say, hand on heart you know what shape the Earth is?  

Then tell me how it is you know such things.

You might surprise yourself with your own answer.

My first memory of it was seeing a boat slip below the horizon and still see the mast, when I was looking through binoculars. I asked my father about it and he explained it to me .  The rest I learned at school, then I saw the earth from space photo. After that ( and during that a bit ) it was mostly putting together a vast compendium of things that seemed to indicate it . 

I do have great stories about a flat earth though ... very ancient myths ;  " Before ( before mind you ) the Dreamtime, the earth was a big flat disk of sand with nothing else on it , all flat, no hills or valleys, no water ..... just Ungud,  the earth serpent, looking up to the stars. ..... "

But I heard this much later. 

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11 hours ago, taniwha said:

The stars change position even when you don't travel so I'm not sure that counts.  That effect might if the sky is curved or if a flat earth rotates. There is a limit to how far the eye sees.

But I like your answer.

I can see the South Celestial Pole from where I am .... can you ? 

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