Continued belief in a flat Earth

[back to earth]

9 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Flat earthers seem to think all the stars move around Polaris, even their champion Eric Dubay claims stars in the southern hemisphere circle Polaris. Time lapsed photos of the night sky in the southern hemisphere completely refutes this.

I tried to imagine that from my perspective .... did my head in !  

[Frank Merton]

Actually, thinking about it, if one honestly believes the Bible is God's Word, then one has to be a "flat earther" and in fact believe the Earth has four corners.

Too bad the Bible writers didn't have contact with Aristotle.

[stereologist]

18 hours ago, taniwha said:

You raise some valid points that would be difficult to counter act with logic.

But did you not know that in times long past the sun would rise from a deep hole in the ocean?  It would spend all it's time and energy travelling across the sky, and then, exhausted it would retire into the hole where it would get some much needed sleep.

Or so the alternate truth goes...

Anyway there is little doubt that the skill of the Polynesian navigators were second to none.  They did also  sail "Te Awaroa" - "The Great River" by night, better known by you and me as "The Milky Way".  

It does make me wonder, before technology shrunk the earth in size, if they had calculated it's shape correctly through applied observations?

There's a good chance yes. 
How profoundly did the knowledge impact their society?  We're there still unbelievers?

I also wonder how those discussions went and what conclusions were reached?  

How much discovery can be credited to chasing a myth? 

How much superstition had to be overcome? 

What powerful supernatural forces and magic were invoked to successfully venture the unknown?  That would be a story in itself!

Wouldn't it be great to be a fly on the wall of history?

Even an ancient Polynesian navigator might  consider a flat earther as interestingly peculiar.

By the way, thanks for the great nautical link.

I remember my dad reading a story of the Polynesians and their exploration and discovery of the Pacific islands. One of the old men in the book talked about how he detected distant lands by feeling the waves that came off of it. He would stand on the bow of his craft and feel these waves in his scrotum. Regardless of how they detected the distant lands they sailed to there was rhyme and reason to their methods.

I believe that a good part of the lack of understanding of these basic issues is that people today are separated from the world. They live an insulated life away from basic ideas such as the changing of the seasons and the changing of the star patterns and the changing of the life around us. I think you alluded to this in your post.

I would agree that the ancient navigators whether Norse, Polynesians, or from other parts of the world would find the flat earthers of today as rather peculiar.

[stereologist]

Just when  thought this was another isolated episode of poorly educated people this article comes around

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/so-apparently-shaquille-oneal-is-a-flat-earther-too-035813782.html

Quote

Soon afterwards, Denver Nuggets wing Wilson Chandler and Golden State Warriors forward Draymond Green endorsed Irving’s flat-Earth theory

So now Shaq had this to say

Quote

“It’s true. The Earth is flat. The Earth is flat. Yes, it is. Listen, there are three ways to manipulate the mind — what you read, what you see and what you hear. In school, first thing they teach us is, ‘Oh, Columbus discovered America,’ but when he got there, there were some fair-skinned people with the long hair smoking on the peace pipes. So, what does that tell you? Columbus didn’t discover America. So, listen, I drive from coast to coast, and this s*** is flat to me. I’m just saying. I drive from Florida to California all the time, and it’s flat to me. I do not go up and down at a 360-degree angle, and all that stuff about gravity, have you looked outside Atlanta lately and seen all these buildings? You mean to tell me that China is under us? China is under us? It’s not. The world is flat.”

The NFL has been called the National Felons League. Is the NBA going to be known as the National Bumpkin League?

[spud the mackem]

On ‎18‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 3:04 AM, back to earth said:

Spud  !   Ya nut !   You forgot to install the bow to stern runner hoop, so the line of the Equator dont get caught up in yer propellers ! 

Someone get this guy a new freighter !   

Also, watch out whne ya goin E / W  as well on the ocean, the International Date Line  is now in a different position, since it got  relaid last year 

 

I like your comments and thanks for telling me about the date line as I went one way and lost a Sunday (no double pay) aaagh and when I went the other way I had 2 Mondays (8 day week) aaargh but when you cross th date line you drop 10 feet lol 

[Clarakore]

There might be more going on within  minds of flat earthers as well as the societies which engender them.

Distrust within them in general or towards authority which is meant to take care of them, which also reveals they want to trust everything and perhaps fall more on the interdependence side of the spectrum between that and independence.

And that authorities in general usually lie might also be an underlying belief.

Also the specialization of many fields tends to lead to a hidden effect of what is happening behind the scenes. 

There is also no proof that I have come across that Polynesian sailors knew either way that the Earth was a sphere or believed it to be flat.

 

[spud the mackem]

8 minutes ago, I hide behind words said:

There might be more going on within  minds of flat earthers as well as the societies which engender them.

Distrust within them in general or towards authority which is meant to take care of them, which also reveals they want to trust everything and perhaps fall more on the interdependence side of the spectrum between that and independence.

And that authorities in general usually lie might also be an underlying belief.

Also the specialization of many fields tends to lead to a hidden effect of what is happening behind the scenes. 

There is also no proof that I have come across that Polynesian sailors knew either way that the Earth was a sphere or believed it to be flat.

 

The Polynesian Sailors were the worlds best navigators at the time, travelling thousands of miles over the Pacific and populating the islands and finding their way home again in small outrigger canoes all done without basic navigating instruments   

[Emma_Acid]

On 18/03/2017 at 1:24 PM, taniwha said:

 

If we were brought up to think the earth was a cube would we believe it too?

It's interesting what knowledge we take for granted.

Can you honestly say, hand on heart you know what shape the Earth is?  

Then tell me how it is you know such things.

You might surprise yourself with your own answer.

I don't know how much longer I can deal with this level of educational nihilism. We don't live in caves any more, in case you hadn't noticed. We don't only have a body scientific knowledge because it's been passed down from generation to generation. We have it because it works. It is the basis for all modern society, it is not guesswork, and it is not down to the individual to work out for themselves what shape the earth is.

[back to earth]

15 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

Actually, thinking about it, if one honestly believes the Bible is God's Word, then one has to be a "flat earther" and in fact believe the Earth has four corners.

Too bad the Bible writers didn't have contact with Aristotle.

Some might have .        

at least the ideas may have crossed over  , its a huge can to open though .

[back to earth]

3 hours ago, stereologist said:

Just when  thought this was another isolated episode of poorly educated people this article comes around

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/so-apparently-shaquille-oneal-is-a-flat-earther-too-035813782.html

So now Shaq had this to say

The NFL has been called the National Felons League. Is the NBA going to be known as the National Bumpkin League?

Embarrassing to us that he doesn't realise how embarrassing to him that all is !   

[back to earth]

2 hours ago, spud the mackem said:

I like your comments and thanks for telling me about the date line as I went one way and lost a Sunday (no double pay) aaagh and when I went the other way I had 2 Mondays (8 day week) aaargh but when you cross th date line you drop 10 feet lol 

 

Its true Spud !  At some locations you can detect a huge dip in the ocean 

 

 

 

 

... just gotta get the 'dipper' out of his chair first . 

 

[back to earth]

2 hours ago, spud the mackem said:

The Polynesian Sailors were the worlds best navigators at the time, travelling thousands of miles over the Pacific and populating the islands and finding their way home again in small outrigger canoes all done without basic navigating instruments   

Not that I would call this an 'instrument'  ,  but  ...

 

  

 

[taniwha]

On 19/03/2017 at 2:11 PM, back to earth said:

I can see the South Celestial Pole from where I am .... can you ? 

Yep. Seems so much closer through a telescope though! 

 

[taniwha]

On 19/03/2017 at 2:09 PM, back to earth said:

My first memory of it was seeing a boat slip below the horizon and still see the mast, when I was looking through binoculars. I asked my father about it and he explained it to me .  The rest I learned at school, then I saw the earth from space photo. After that ( and during that a bit ) it was mostly putting together a vast compendium of things that seemed to indicate it . 

I do have great stories about a flat earth though ... very ancient myths ;  " Before ( before mind you ) the Dreamtime, the earth was a big flat disk of sand with nothing else on it , all flat, no hills or valleys, no water ..... just Ungud,  the earth serpent, looking up to the stars. ..... "

But I heard this much later. 

I love how the universe is revealed through ancient stories.  

If only, to see what Ungud could see...

Curiously enough, Ive wondered if the tuataras prehistoric third eye was ever used for stargazing. It was situated in the top of it's head, an ideal spot for an observatory!  

There can be something primitive about watching the stars, it gives me sort of reptilian goosebumps, I think I can relate to that earth serpent of old  

By the way brother you are a very good storyteller 

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by taniwha

[Withoutnight]

On 16/03/2017 at 2:09 AM, Rlyeh said:

Flat earthers are a special kind of stupid, many seem to be superstitious and take the Bible literally.

Not only can you go to the Antarctic there are tourist sight seeing flights.

They dont need the bible, no reason to put blame where it isnt due

[taniwha]

17 hours ago, stereologist said:

I remember my dad reading a story of the Polynesians and their exploration and discovery of the Pacific islands. One of the old men in the book talked about how he detected distant lands by feeling the waves that came off of it. He would stand on the bow of his craft and feel these waves in his scrotum. Regardless of how they detected the distant lands they sailed to there was rhyme and reason to their methods.

I believe that a good part of the lack of understanding of these basic issues is that people today are separated from the world. They live an insulated life away from basic ideas such as the changing of the seasons and the changing of the star patterns and the changing of the life around us. I think you alluded to this in your post.

I would agree that the ancient navigators whether Norse, Polynesians, or from other parts of the world would find the flat earthers of today as rather peculiar.

If you consider all the benefits to be had from the sea the close connection is understandable.

With one Polynesian group who sailed to NZ, it was tradition for woman to give birth in the ocean.  And not only would they be born at sea and live from the sea, they would also die at sea.

The old people new when their time had come, and without fanfare they would slip out into the waves....back to where they came from.

Things were different back when, that's all I can say.

[taniwha]

16 hours ago, spud the mackem said:

The Polynesian Sailors were the worlds best navigators at the time, travelling thousands of miles over the Pacific and populating the islands and finding their way home again in small outrigger canoes all done without basic navigating instruments   

One method of measure I heard of was the hand span.  I think this is how it worked... so many spans from horizon to horizon with gaps between each finger the regular time intervals.

Oral maori tradition tells stories of transpacific trading for Kumara as far east as South America...

http://i.stuff.co.nz/science/8213421/Kumara-origin-points-to-pan-Pacific-voyage

Edited March 20, 2017 by taniwha

[Frank Merton]

Well people still believe in the six day creation and Noah and Adam and Eve and Original Sin and deny natural selection over genera, so I suppose it is to be expected.

[taniwha]

17 hours ago, I hide behind words said:

There is also no proof that I have come across that Polynesian sailors knew either way that the Earth was a sphere or believed it to be flat.

Perhaps not.  I wonder then how they reacted when Captain Cook told them it was so?

No doubts they were capable of putting observation into calculated practice.  Did they even think the earth was suspended in the heavens?

Did they know that the earth was the biggest waka of all?

There were at least 10 dimensions to the heavens that could only be reached via powerful magical spells, trials and tribulations.

I guess one effect the universe has on all cultures is a natural tendency to question the how's and whys of things.

One thing I do know is that the great southern  realm of white snow and ice was named by Polynesian navigators. We know this through oral tradition. 

We call it Antarctica.  The name they gave it eludes me...

Edited March 20, 2017 by taniwha

[taniwha]

16 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:

I don't know how much longer I can deal with this level of educational nihilism. We don't live in caves any more, in case you hadn't noticed. We don't only have a body scientific knowledge because it's been passed down from generation to generation. We have it because it works. It is the basis for all modern society, it is not guesswork, and it is not down to the individual to work out for themselves what shape the earth is.

Do you have a relevant question?

[Emma_Acid]

10 minutes ago, taniwha said:

Do you have a relevant question?

I didn't know I needed one

[Rlyeh]

5 hours ago, Withoutnight said:

They dont need the bible, no reason to put blame where it isnt due

They most definitely use the Bible to support their delusion.

[glorybebe]

22 hours ago, stereologist said:

Just when  thought this was another isolated episode of poorly educated people this article comes around

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/so-apparently-shaquille-oneal-is-a-flat-earther-too-035813782.html

So now Shaq had this to say

The NFL has been called the National Felons League. Is the NBA going to be known as the National Bumpkin League?

I couldn't believe it when I read Shaq believed in a flat Earth!  I thought it was a joke at first.

[Clarakore]

Here is how a flat earth map looks like minus the ice ring along the edges.

[stereologist]

Years ago I read an article by someone that was interested in the shape of mountain shadows. It turns out that the shadow is always pointed regardless of the shape of the mountain top. The mathematical analysis that showed this would be the case worked because the Earth is spherical. A mountain with a flat top and a mountain with a pointy summit will cast pointed shadows.

Back in the late 80s some flat earthers supposedly measured the shape of the Salton Sea and showed it to be flat, not curved. Some big wigs from the flat Earth society claimed they measured the Salton Sea and found no curvature. No details on what they did or when or how were provided.

But if you were to go down there

Quote

The Sea is so large that the distant shores are not visible in some areas due to the Earth’s curvature. 

http://saltonsea.ca.gov/Resources/Geography

Hmmm, being truthful is not part of the Flat Earth society.