Gromdor Posted March 24, 2017 #26 Share Posted March 24, 2017 20 hours ago, RavenHawk said: The Constitution only applies to and protects American citizens. Everyone has natural rights. It is not the US's responsibility to protect those rights of non-citizens or put those rights above its citizens. That responsibility goes to the individual or their country. Saying a state "protects" the rights of it's citizens and no one else, is a fancy way of saying a state "grants" those rights. Because it is obvious by your logic that the only people in the US with natural rights are the citizens and that is because the state grants "protects" it. And without the constitution and government, even the citizens wouldn't have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnchorSteam Posted March 24, 2017 #27 Share Posted March 24, 2017 13 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Saying a state "protects" the rights of it's citizens and no one else, is a fancy way of saying a state "grants" those rights. Because it is obvious by your logic that the only people in the US with natural rights are the citizens and that is because the state grants "protects" it. And without the constitution and government, even the citizens wouldn't have that. Why are you being so obtuse about this? Why does everything have to be about the state? Here is the deal; our forefathers did it for themselves, and they said THEY had these rights and the state can't take 'me away. If they tried there would be trouble. All we have to do is stand up for our rights to keep them.... and I'll tell you, we have been doing a pretty shabby job lately. Maybe the worst thing we ever did was let a gang of nao-communists take over the education system, and produce grads that have zero confidence in themselves and no understanding of any human activity that is capable of existing outside of the God-like presence of Das uber-Stadt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted March 25, 2017 #28 Share Posted March 25, 2017 21 hours ago, AnchorSteam said: Why are you being so obtuse about this? Why does everything have to be about the state? Here is the deal; our forefathers did it for themselves, and they said THEY had these rights and the state can't take 'me away. If they tried there would be trouble. All we have to do is stand up for our rights to keep them.... and I'll tell you, we have been doing a pretty shabby job lately. Maybe the worst thing we ever did was let a gang of nao-communists take over the education system, and produce grads that have zero confidence in themselves and no understanding of any human activity that is capable of existing outside of the God-like presence of Das uber-Stadt. Well, when you have a group of people who are trying to limit rights to a certain group of people, all the while saying that everyone has rights inherently- I call them out on the hypocrisy of their logic. And much like our forefathers, when someone does this, I stand up and say THEY have these rights and the state can't take them away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Unicorn Posted March 25, 2017 #29 Share Posted March 25, 2017 On 3/22/2017 at 11:43 PM, RavenHawk said: Well, then I'm glad you think that way. The United States Code is the official compilation and codification of the laws of the United States. In other words, these 52 titles of the code are Constitutional. So if there is a law that allows the President to legally discriminate to defend this nation, that is then Constitutional. Case in point, USC 8 Section 1182(f) gives the President the Constitutional right to discriminate. Title 8 USC Section 1182(f), which states: “Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.” That is pretty clear. Anyone that opposes that is being unConstitutional. Hmmm. This is true, more restrictions should have been placed against the illegal immigrants from Mexico starting during the Bush administration, that took American jobs and then they had children in the US and it made it a more difficult problem in the following years. However when the Trump ban came he claimed it was to protect against terrorism. We never had a non US citizen immigrant from the Muslim countries he targeted, yet 911 terrorist country wasn't on the list? It was apparent to the courts he was he was discriminating against a religion more than a real threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted March 25, 2017 #30 Share Posted March 25, 2017 On 3/23/2017 at 8:10 PM, RavenHawk said: The Constitution only applies to and protects American citizens. That is not true actually. It applies to citizens in the places it says it applies to citizens. From http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/immigration/255281-yes-illegal-aliens-have-constitutional-rights : Quote A decade before Plyler, the court ruled in Almeida-Sanchez v. United States (1973) that all criminal charge-related elements of the Constitution's amendments (the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and the 14th) such as search and seizure, self-incrimination, trial by jury and due process, protect non-citizens, legally or illegally present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted March 25, 2017 #31 Share Posted March 25, 2017 On 2017-03-22 at 4:22 PM, and then said: The Constitution is a framework of rules designed to nurture freedom in this country. It was written carefully by very thoughtful, widely and deeply educated men. Modern references to whether a law is "Constitutional" may have as many meanings as there are people to say it. The truth is that any law that can be said to conflict with that document, should fail to gain approval. The founders were in agreement (according to Jefferson): "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these ... States have NO authority to grant rights. Those are God-given. States' only purpose is to defend their people and to the extent possible without harming the citizenry, to provide for tranquility among the population. NOTHING ELSE. Rights are given and taken away by those in power, a simple look at your nations history will show that many people have been denied thier basic human rights. For example, First Nations and slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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