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Police in the US have already killed 275


Farmer77

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Less than three months into 2017 and law enforcement officers from departments across the country have already killed at least 275 people — even if a number of these stories missed out headlines, in a news cycle dominated by our new president and his unfounded tweeting.

The 275 people killed by police thus far in 2017 puts the U.S. slightly ahead of 2016’s pace — by this time last year the KBP database tallied 270 officer-involved deaths. By the end of 2016, 1,153 people had died at the hands of a cop, according to the data. In 2015, 265 of the 1,210 people killed by police were dead by March 22.

Police In The US Have Already Killed 275 People This Year 

 

We have a tyranny problem in the USA and its time to rethink how things are done. 

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I would assume the overwhelming majority of the killings were quite justified. There's a lot of violent bad guys out there. I thank the police. How many of us risk our lives to do our job. I wouldn't want their job. Tyranny problem?...I don't see it. Respect for those willing to go in harm's way....I see it!

 

Edited by papageorge1
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1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

I would assume the overwhelming majority of the killings were quite justified. There's a lot of violent bad guys out there. I thank the police. How many of us risk our lives to do our job. I wouldn't want their job. Tyranny problem?...I don't see it. Respect for those willing to go in harm's way....I see it!

 

 

Your attitude is one which has given rise to the "warrior cop" mentality Rise of the Warrior Cop Is it time to reconsider the militarization of American policing?  Ive been trying to find a polite way to say this but I think the poem "first they came" sums up your position rather well. Theyre not you,  so you dont care,  and you wont until you yourself are victimized by overreaching tyrannical practices ...heres a great example of what im talking about : The disappeared: Chicago police detain Americans at abuse-laden 'black site' 

Its a multifold problem that really begins at two points, how police are trained and the insane amount of bull**** laws on the books in America, especially those laws placed there specifically for profit. 

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You haven't provided any context other than police have killed people, even your link included accidents involving off duty police.

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Just now, Rlyeh said:

You haven't provided any context other than police have killed people, even your link included accidents involving off duty police.

My initial intention really was just to start a thread tracking these killings, as there was no individual context in the article.

We can talk about things like Tamir Rice being gunned down , or that poor caretaker of a mentally disabled man who was shot while holding his hands in the air if you like. Or this one which really made me step away from activism for a while : GRAPHIC: North Charleston cop fatally shoots man as he runs away . Thankfully there was independent video of the murder, how many of those 275 killed were murdered in the same fashion while the police investigated themselves and found themselves not guilty? 

The overall point is that LEO's have lost the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps they never should have had it but the information age has shown us we in America have a real problem with police violence.  

 

 

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"We have a tyranny problem in the USA and its time to rethink how things are done." 

I am against police forces that are corrupt and self-serving.  Against people awarded badges and deadly weapons that they can rightfully use to end life, though they have insufficient skills to make proper determinations.  The states are at fault for how they use financial resources to accomplish the best testing/screening and training.  

Having said ALL of THAT... imagine the costs to the same society, if no cops were available, period?  What would those statistics look like, THEN?

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6 minutes ago, and then said:

"We have a tyranny problem in the USA and its time to rethink how things are done." 

I am against police forces that are corrupt and self-serving.  Against people awarded badges and deadly weapons that they can rightfully use to end life, though they have insufficient skills to make proper determinations.  The states are at fault for how they use financial resources to accomplish the best testing/screening and training.  

Having said ALL of THAT... imagine the costs to the same society, if no cops were available, period?  What would those statistics look like, THEN?

I think you and I have discussed this before and I think after some growing pains society would most likely be just fine without police as we have them now.  Thats in no way what im advocating however. 

 

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5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

My initial intention really was just to start a thread tracking these killings, as there was no individual context in the article.

We can talk about things like Tamir Rice being gunned down , or that poor caretaker of a mentally disabled man who was shot while holding his hands in the air if you like. Or this one which really made me step away from activism for a while : GRAPHIC: North Charleston cop fatally shoots man as he runs away . Thankfully there was independent video of the murder, how many of those 275 killed were murdered in the same fashion while the police investigated themselves and found themselves not guilty? 

The overall point is that LEO's have lost the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps they never should have had it but the information age has shown us we in America have a real problem with police violence.  

 

 

re bolded:

So, you, like others, are resorting to the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. Careful, your bias is starting to creep out.

If you really wanted to have a discussion about this, you would provide information about how many were justified line of duty, justified off duty, accidental deaths and actual murder. As well as how many cops are killed, and the circumstances. 

Your intention of "tracking these killings" borders on LEO bashing (not saying that's your intent, but...)

We don't have a problem with police violence, we have a criminal problem, a criminal justice system problem and a police accountability problem. But, you know, these are topics for an actual, serious discussion, instead of throwing around "a real problem with police voilence".

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5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I think you and I have discussed this before and I think after some growing pains society would most likely be just fine without police as we have them now.  Thats in no way what im advocating however. 

 

What are you advocating then? Sounds like a type of anarchy.

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The list is kind of interesting, they do include anything cop related. The little kid that ran in front of the car, and there was an older guy on a bicycle that blew a red light in front of a cop and died after that accident.... There's a goodly handful one ones where someone attacked or shot cops first, and the cops responded with shots... some unfortunate tazerings, a bunch of shot while in progress of various crimes.... and of course a handful of more questionable ones, there always seems to be those. The Killed by Police folks already seem to be doing a pretty good job at tracking anything that has to do with a badge holder and a fatality.

I thought it a bit odd that the DOJ does not already have an officer related fatality list. I know in the past here on UM we have had folks take firearm reports and extrapolate that down into what "justifiable homicides" there were by comparison to other firearm related deaths. I bet the DOJ could do that too, although that kind of list wouldn't include things like vehicular accidents.

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1 hour ago, rashore said:

The list is kind of interesting, they do include anything cop related. The little kid that ran in front of the car, and there was an older guy on a bicycle that blew a red light in front of a cop and died after that accident.... There's a goodly handful one ones where someone attacked or shot cops first, and the cops responded with shots... some unfortunate tazerings, a bunch of shot while in progress of various crimes.... and of course a handful of more questionable ones, there always seems to be those. The Killed by Police folks already seem to be doing a pretty good job at tracking anything that has to do with a badge holder and a fatality.

I thought it a bit odd that the DOJ does not already have an officer related fatality list. I know in the past here on UM we have had folks take firearm reports and extrapolate that down into what "justifiable homicides" there were by comparison to other firearm related deaths. I bet the DOJ could do that too, although that kind of list wouldn't include things like vehicular accidents.

The FBI does indeed track police line of duty shootings. It's part of the Uniform Crime Report's Expanded Homicide Data. They don't separate murder by cop from the rest of the murder victims.

The DoJ back in 2016 said they were planning to set up a program to collect data on use of force and fatal shootings by police officers (whether fatal or nonfatal and justified or not). I haven't really found much to see if such a program ever got off the ground, other than links to the Bureau of Justice Statistics citing H. R. 3355 (from 1994). Basically, it seems to me that the DoJ could very well have a list, but for whatever reason aren't making it public. 

However, threads such as these make it seem like something it is not. There is no widespread epidemic of LEOs murdering civilians. There is, however, a widespread epidemic of civilians murdering each other.

Farmer77 starts out with "The 275 people killed by police thus far in 2017" - however, there's no breakdown of justifiable line of duty or accidental or flat out murder. Compare that, with 127 people murdered just in Chicago. 

 

 

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In a perfect world, unnecessary deaths wouldn't occur. Unfortunately, it isn't a perfect world and in a nation with such liberal gun ownership policies and relative ease of access to firearms, armed officers are necessary. What is needed is more effective non lethal methods and technology to subdue armed assailants. Phasers on stun would do, nicely or their equivalent.

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10 hours ago, MstrMsn said:

What are you advocating then? Sounds like a type of anarchy.

Not at all, im advocating a complete overhaul of the way we police in this nation. 

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10 hours ago, MstrMsn said:

re bolded:

So, you, like others, are resorting to the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. Careful, your bias is starting to creep out.

If you really wanted to have a discussion about this, you would provide information about how many were justified line of duty, justified off duty, accidental deaths and actual murder. As well as how many cops are killed, and the circumstances. 

Your intention of "tracking these killings" borders on LEO bashing (not saying that's your intent, but...)

We don't have a problem with police violence, we have a criminal problem, a criminal justice system problem and a police accountability problem. But, you know, these are topics for an actual, serious discussion, instead of throwing around "a real problem with police voilence".

I believe the founding fathers would say when its government authorities wielding violent power and then investigating themselves it is ALL of our jobs to show bias to the citizenry.

 

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4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I believe the founding fathers would say when its government authorities wielding violent power and then investigating themselves it is ALL of our jobs to show bias to the citizenry.

 

If there were truly an epidemic like you believe, Obama's DOJ would have shown it, they didn't because there isn't one.

You want to combat police corruption and hold those responsible accountable? Start a movement to get rid of public sector unions. Or, elect a D.A. that will go after them. Otherwise, there's nothing that will stop that corruption.

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4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Not at all, im advocating a complete overhaul of the way we police in this nation. 

I agree. Unfortunately, barring some form of miracle, it'll never change.

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28 minutes ago, MstrMsn said:

If there were truly an epidemic like you believe, Obama's DOJ would have shown it, they didn't because there isn't one.

You want to combat police corruption and hold those responsible accountable? Start a movement to get rid of public sector unions. Or, elect a D.A. that will go after them. Otherwise, there's nothing that will stop that corruption.

I think Obama's DOJ was a bit more on point with this issue than you are realizing  : Obama’s DOJ Got Aggressive On Civil Rights And Police Abuse. Now Trump Could Roll It All Back.

The DOJ did a great job of getting involved in Baltimore : Here Are Some Of The Most Shocking Parts Of DOJ’s Report On Baltimore Police 

And they went after chicago pretty hard as well :  Obama’s DOJ: Chicago Police Use Unconstitutional, ‘Excessive’ Force 

This is a decent article about the DOJ's efforts and the pushback from local PD's : Forced reforms, Mixed results 

Remember that regardless of whom the president is they have to fight (assuming they even want to) the military industrial complex and prison industrial complex lobbyists and unions to get anything actually done in terms of reforms. 

One of my larger concerns is that the eventually the simplest answer will be a federal police force. 

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