XenoFish Posted March 28, 2017 #51 Share Posted March 28, 2017 The idea of dying doesn't bother me. Nor what I leave behind. It's going to happen regardless of how I feel and I accept that. My only request (if that's even possible) is to die in my sleep like my grandfather did. Death is to me the eternal slumber. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totah Dine Posted March 29, 2017 #52 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Reminds me of that old quote from Will Rogers - “When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.” 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perdurabo Posted March 30, 2017 #53 Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/26/2017 at 8:51 AM, Rlyeh said: And yet unconsciousness is exactly that, the lack of consciousness. "To sleep, perchance to dream..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 30, 2017 #54 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Perdurabo said: "To sleep, perchance to dream..." Unconscious doesn't dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atheist Pope Posted April 1, 2017 #55 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Well I'm not too surprised with the study as many atheists I know say death is just like before you were born -- we're just recycled into the elements and life goes on without our sentient awareness (almost poetically peaceful in some ways). In my teenage years, like many, I was a cynical, deep thinker and studied philosopy at college, which made me contemplate the total nothingness of death every day. I must admit, I don't think I was as strong-minded as I should have been as I got that sinking feeling in my heart and the overwhelming butterflies in my stomach when I realised we're nothing but a cosmic accident and mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. For years, I battled this quarter-life existential crisis which nearly drove me mental, but I've been at peace with my fate for a decade now. Nihilism and materialistic determinism in many ways were liberating as I create my own purpose and don't submit to an unproven, unscientific deity. With maturity came wisdom in my case (or so I like to think). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perdurabo Posted April 3, 2017 #56 Share Posted April 3, 2017 On 3/30/2017 at 2:05 AM, Rlyeh said: Unconscious doesn't dream. There is no unconsciousness. Only memory loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted April 3, 2017 #57 Share Posted April 3, 2017 On 3/30/2017 at 6:05 PM, Rlyeh said: Unconscious doesn't dream. Well, not as such, a dream is a combination of both ; that is the way the unconscious communicates with the conscious - via symbolism and images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted April 3, 2017 #58 Share Posted April 3, 2017 On 3/29/2017 at 10:32 AM, XenoFish said: The idea of dying doesn't bother me. Nor what I leave behind. It's going to happen regardless of how I feel and I accept that. My only request (if that's even possible) is to die in my sleep like my grandfather did. Death is to me the eternal slumber. One assumes .... without the nightmares ? Time for that poem again " .... She waits for each and other, She waits for all men born; Forgets the earth her mother, The life of fruits and corn; And spring and seed and swallow Take wing for her and follow Where summer song rings hollow And flowers are put to scorn. There go the loves that wither, The old loves with wearier wings; And all dead years draw thither, And all disastrous things; Dead dreams of days forsaken, Blind buds that snows have shaken, Wild leaves that winds have taken, Red strays of ruined springs. We are not sure of sorrow, And joy was never sure; To-day will die to-morrow; Time stoops to no man's lure; And love, grown faint and fretful, With lips but half regretful Sighs, and with eyes forgetful Weeps that no loves endure. From too much love of living, From hope and fear set free, We thank with brief thanksgiving Whatever gods may be That no life lives for ever; That dead men rise up never; That even the weariest river Winds somewhere safe to sea. Then star nor sun shall waken, Nor any change of light: Nor sound of waters shaken, Nor any sound or sight: Nor wintry leaves nor vernal, Nor days nor things diurnal; Only the sleep eternal In an eternal night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted April 3, 2017 #59 Share Posted April 3, 2017 You know. If you really think about it. Those who are least afraid of death are the dead. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted April 4, 2017 #60 Share Posted April 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Perdurabo said: There is no unconsciousness. Only memory loss. Actually there is both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted April 4, 2017 #61 Share Posted April 4, 2017 3 hours ago, back to earth said: Well, not as such, a dream is a combination of both ; that is the way the unconscious communicates with the conscious - via symbolism and images. Loss of consciousness is not the same as the psychoanalytic unconscious mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted April 4, 2017 #62 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I've been close a few times. One of the things that always surprised me is what I was actually afraid of. How much other people would be hurting. What I'd miss. When I finally do die, that's why I hope it's something quick. Death doesn't bother me, the lead up does. I do remember, when I was going into the ER, I was certain I was dying. Body was just shutting down, no one knew why. Could barely see, could barely walk. Entire time was chatting, joking, trying to console my mother. Wasn't bravery, just couldn't stand the thought of the people I cared about being in pain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 4, 2017 #63 Share Posted April 4, 2017 When my kidneys were failing, having the effect that I couldn't walk or even lift my head, I was sure death was near, and I went out of the way (perhaps making a fool of myself) to prepare others for this. Interestingly, I saw it as just something about to happen, no fear involved, or grief or any other particular emotion. Still, I like my life and want to continue living. That is a different thing from "fear" of death -- a distinction that needs emphasis. Joy in life does not imply fear of death, or even sadness about it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted April 4, 2017 #64 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Facing the death of loved ones is hardest since we have to live with the loss for so long. Luke Havergal By Edwin Arlington Robinson Go to the western gate, Luke Havergal, There where the vines cling crimson on the wall, And in the twilight wait for what will come. The leaves will whisper there of her, and some, Like flying words, will strike you as they fall; But go, and if you listen she will call. Go to the western gate, Luke Havergal— Luke Havergal. No, there is not a dawn in eastern skies To rift the fiery night that’s in your eyes; But there, where western glooms are gathering, The dark will end the dark, if anything: God slays Himself with every leaf that flies, And hell is more than half of paradise. No, there is not a dawn in eastern skies— In eastern skies. Out of a grave I come to tell you this, Out of a grave I come to quench the kiss That flames upon your forehead with a glow That blinds you to the way that you must go. Yes, there is yet one way to where she is, Bitter, but one that faith may never miss. Out of a grave I come to tell you this— To tell you this. There is the western gate, Luke Havergal, There are the crimson leaves upon the wall. Go, for the winds are tearing them away,— Nor think to riddle the dead words they say, Nor any more to feel them as they fall; But go, and if you trust her she will call. There is the western gate, Luke Havergal— Luke Havergal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted April 16, 2017 #65 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Why would I be afraid of death? Ever had a surgery? You pass out completely but this time forever. No dreams, no trouble, no worries. Just total peace. Forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdohle Posted April 23, 2017 #66 Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 4/16/2017 at 6:00 PM, odas said: Why would I be afraid of death? Ever had a surgery? You pass out completely but this time forever. No dreams, no trouble, no worries. Just total peace. Forever. These are all beliefs. We all have them and think we are right. Actually, those people who are sure of what they believe, be they atheist or believer die with the most peace. It is those who do not know that seem to have the most difficulty. Kubler Ross found that to be true from her experience with dealing with the dying. I do think we can fool ourselves into thinking we don't fear death, however, our survival instinct is very strong. In the end, we won't know until each of us experiences it. Though, the process of dying can be mixed up with the event of death. I think for many the thought of non-existence can be just as much wishful thinking as an afterlife. For if there is an afterlife, then there are no free passes into some eternal rest ideal. The 'life review' that many have when the have their NDE would seem to point to the reality that we have to face everything we have done, and feel the pain and joy we brought on others as well. So, thinking death is a dreamless sleep could be wishful thinking for many Below is the site that has a book from a secular point of view, that believes the NDE's and other paranormal experiences do in fact say that we do have an afterlife. https://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Death-Journalist-Investigates-Afterlife/dp/0553419617/ref=sr_1_13?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1492986001&sr=1-13&keywords=life+after+death 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 24, 2017 #67 Share Posted April 24, 2017 If we are honest with ourselves, we understand that far and away the most likely outcome of life is for it to end, for us to stop existing just as we began existing when we were born. The universe went through billions of years before we we born, and we were not there, and had no knowledge. The same will happen after we die, until the stars burn out. Of course we are big egos and don't like to admit that this is most likely, so we have invented all sorts of stories, all maybe possible, but, really, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted April 24, 2017 #68 Share Posted April 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Frank Merton said: If we are honest with ourselves, we understand that far and away the most likely outcome of life is for it to end, for us to stop existing just as we began existing when we were born. The universe went through billions of years before we we born, and we were not there, and had no knowledge. The same will happen after we die, until the stars burn out. Of course we are big egos and don't like to admit that this is most likely, so we have invented all sorts of stories, all maybe possible, but, really, now. The idea that we simply cease from existence, as though we'd never been, has a great appeal for many. It speaks of a desire to forget and to rest. I don't believe this is our future. I don't pretend to understand the Creator's plan for each of us but I do believe it will be made clear upon our passing from this life. I think that they many myths that have grown up around the Creator cause doubts and get in the way. I think the answer we receive will be surprising for all of us. If I am wrong and atheists are right, I will never know. If my faith is correct and they are mistaken, they may have a very, very long time to wonder about the choices they made. I wish no ill on anyone's soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 24, 2017 #69 Share Posted April 24, 2017 1 minute ago, and then said: The idea that we simply cease from existence, as though we'd never been, has a great appeal for many. It speaks of a desire to forget and to rest. I don't believe this is our future. I don't pretend to understand the Creator's plan for each of us but I do believe it will be made clear upon our passing from this life. I think that they many myths that have grown up around the Creator cause doubts and get in the way. I think the answer we receive will be surprising for all of us. If I am wrong and atheists are right, I will never know. If my faith is correct and they are mistaken, they may have a very, very long time to wonder about the choices they made. I wish no ill on anyone's soul. My you wish you were right, but you aren't quite sure, are you? Depending on Pascal's Wager is foolishness, but it seems that is really all you have. You know, I get the feeling you do hope there is a god who punishes people for following their own best sense with honor and not who rewards those who play roulette with His existence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 24, 2017 #70 Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 4/17/2017 at 5:00 AM, odas said: Why would I be afraid of death? Ever had a surgery? You pass out completely but this time forever. No dreams, no trouble, no worries. Just total peace. Forever. I think, all things considered, I would prefer troubles and worries, but there are things that are the way they are and if one can't change them, it is of little use wasting time on fables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdohle Posted April 24, 2017 #71 Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) Quote Merton said: My you wish you were right, but you aren't quite sure, are you? Depending on Pascal's Wager is foolishness, but it seems that is really all you have. You know, I get the feeling you do hope there is a god who punishes people for following their own best sense with honor and not who rewards those who play roulette with His existence. Truth be told, none of us 'is quite sure', so to say any different is pretending. We live in a world that will not allow us to have surety in any of our beliefs. Your statement is based on a stereotype about those who think differently than you do, and wish to come across as better, more intelligent, and more rational, a pretension that (some) atheist seem to need. Of course, I kind of do the same thing ;-). Mankind's experiences, and by that I mean NDE's, OBE's etc., which would be impossible if we were just meat suits happen all the time. Like I said, the literature on our 'paranormal' experiences are being studied now and in the end, I believe that it will be good science to 'believe' in an afterlife, though absolute, proof, will never be possible.....that only happens to those who have an NDE. I have met them, many of them, there are millions of them. The fact that there seems to be a process that we go through when we die, would point to an intelligence beyond ours. As a Christian, my faith in the Risen Lord is based on the early churches experience of that event, as well as some of my own. However, to say I am one hundred present sure would be a lie. I have doubts, and I am sure atheist surely have their own as well. I do think the louder one shouts their beliefs or lack of is one way to run from one's doubts. Jesus said those who seek find, to seek is to be open to the truth, to stop seeking is to dig in and to fight 'truth'. That goes for everyone I believe. People who seek and actually talk to one another, those who don't, shout. You don't shout by the way LOL. Peace Mark Edited April 24, 2017 by markdohle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 24, 2017 #72 Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 3/24/2017 at 6:07 PM, Claire. said: Study into who is least afraid of death. A new study examines all robust, available data on how fearful we are of what happens once we shuffle off this mortal coil. They find that atheists are among those least afraid of dying... and, perhaps not surprisingly, the very religious. Religion has long been thought to be a solution to the problem of death. Notions of an afterlife are nearly universal, though there is great diversity in the details. Given this close association between religion and death, researchers have long supposed that religion lessens fear about death. It stands to reason that religious believers should be less fearful of death than nonreligious individuals, or does it? A systematic review of high quality international studies led by researchers at the University of Oxford paints a more complicated picture. It shows that the very religious and atheists are the groups who do not fear death as much as much as those in-between in a paper published in the journal Religion, Brain and Behavior. Read more: Phys.org Cool topic. I haven't yet read the link, or the thread, but I'd like to add that I think it can be very hard to tell who is truly afraid of death without said subjects staring death in the face. Its easy enough to say we are not afraid to die, but I suspect many who say they have no fear of it, being an atheist or a believer, would prove to have deceived themselves when push really comes to shove. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhurfjooydig Posted May 4, 2017 #73 Share Posted May 4, 2017 There's a need to distinguish between a healthy fear of death (which causes us to be aware and cautious as we live) and a fear of death that's a symptom of a pathological alienation from the natural world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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