Thanato Posted March 27, 2017 #1 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Quote The Liberal government will announce legislation next month that will legalize marijuana in Canada by July 1, 2018. CBC News has learned that the legislation will be announced during the week of April 10 and will broadly follow the recommendation of a federally appointed task force that was chaired by former liberal Justice Minister Anne McLellan. Bill Blair, the former Toronto police chief who has been stickhandling the marijuana file for the government, briefed the Liberal caucus on the roll-out plan and the legislation during caucus meetings this weekend. http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/liberal-legal-marijuana-pot-1.4041902 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glorybebe Posted March 27, 2017 #2 Share Posted March 27, 2017 It's about time. I, personally, hate people smoking it around me since I am so allergic to it. BUT, it is no worse than alcohol. And the money we will be able to have going to taxes will be crazy. Now to legalize prostitution so it can be regulated and taxed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted March 27, 2017 #3 Share Posted March 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, glorybebe said: It's about time. I, personally, hate people smoking it around me since I am so allergic to it. BUT, it is no worse than alcohol. And the money we will be able to have going to taxes will be crazy. Now to legalize prostitution so it can be regulated and taxed. I favor legalization simply because I don't think things should be criminalized without much stronger reason, but I don't think one should expect much tax revenue. If you tax it too highly you will create a black market, enriching the criminals but not the government. A reasonable tax of ten percent or so is all that should be imposed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glorybebe Posted March 27, 2017 #4 Share Posted March 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, Frank Merton said: I favor legalization simply because I don't think things should be criminalized without much stronger reason, but I don't think one should expect much tax revenue. If you tax it too highly you will create a black market, enriching the criminals but not the government. A reasonable tax of ten percent or so is all that should be imposed. You have to know the amount that is grown and smoked just here in BC, never mind the rest of Canada. If they tax the same amount they tax cigarettes, there will be a huge amount in taxes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 27, 2017 #5 Share Posted March 27, 2017 25 minutes ago, Frank Merton said: I favor legalization simply because I don't think things should be criminalized without much stronger reason, but I don't think one should expect much tax revenue. If you tax it too highly you will create a black market, enriching the criminals but not the government. A reasonable tax of ten percent or so is all that should be imposed. 13 minutes ago, glorybebe said: You have to know the amount that is grown and smoked just here in BC, never mind the rest of Canada. If they tax the same amount they tax cigarettes, there will be a huge amount in taxes. Colorado is doing great and their taxes are around 15% altogether on it. The most dangerous part about weed has always been getting caught , everyone I know who has had the chance to go legal has never looked back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted March 27, 2017 #6 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Fifteen percent is getting a little greedy and leaves some profit for black markets. These things have been studied and although of course the situation varies from product to product, ten percent should be enough. I disfavor all "sin" taxes and think all products should be subject to the same tax (either sales or VAT) and not some things singled out for special higher taxes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glorybebe Posted March 27, 2017 #7 Share Posted March 27, 2017 We don't have a big black market on cigarettes and we have high taxes on alcohol without a huge black market. Yes, Canada does have a black market but, not to the extent that other countries have. Taxes on Marijuana will not create a black market need like having it illegal does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted March 28, 2017 #8 Share Posted March 28, 2017 On 3/26/2017 at 8:40 PM, Frank Merton said: I favor legalization simply because I don't think things should be criminalized without much stronger reason, but I don't think one should expect much tax revenue. If you tax it too highly you will create a black market, enriching the criminals but not the government. A reasonable tax of ten percent or so is all that should be imposed. Not true. In my state it's taxed at 37% and it's much cheaper than it was when it was illegal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted March 28, 2017 #9 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Legalizing pot in Canada will run afoul of global treaties, Trudeau warned That work will have to include figuring out how Canada would comply with three international treaties to which the country is a party, all of which criminalize the possession and production of marijuana. The Liberal policy means that Canada will have to amend its participation in three international conventions: — The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs of 1961, as amended by the 1972 Protocol; — The Convention on Psychotropic Substances of 1971; — The United Nations Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances of 1988. "All three require the criminalization of possession and production of cannabis," says the briefing note. "As part of examining legalization of cannabis possession and production, Canada will need to explore how to inform the international community and will have to take the steps needed to adjust its obligations under these conventions." http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-legalizing-pot-global-treaties-1.3390745 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted March 28, 2017 #10 Share Posted March 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, aztek said: Legalizing pot in Canada will run afoul of global treaties, Trudeau warned That work will have to include figuring out how Canada would comply with three international treaties to which the country is a party, all of which criminalize the possession and production of marijuana. The Liberal policy means that Canada will have to amend its participation in three international conventions: — The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs of 1961, as amended by the 1972 Protocol; — The Convention on Psychotropic Substances of 1971; — The United Nations Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances of 1988. "All three require the criminalization of possession and production of cannabis," says the briefing note. "As part of examining legalization of cannabis possession and production, Canada will need to explore how to inform the international community and will have to take the steps needed to adjust its obligations under these conventions." http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-legalizing-pot-global-treaties-1.3390745 **** "em. That's the answer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted March 28, 2017 #11 Share Posted March 28, 2017 i agree, usa as well as canada, and pretty much every country that signed it should say the same. but i believe it is not as simple, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted March 28, 2017 Author #12 Share Posted March 28, 2017 There was talk of this back in 2015. It was theorized that once Canada legalized weed those treaties would fall apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glorybebe Posted March 29, 2017 #13 Share Posted March 29, 2017 They are from 20-30 years ago. They are outdated, anyways. Time for new treaties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted March 29, 2017 #14 Share Posted March 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Thanato said: There was talk of this back in 2015. It was theorized that once Canada legalized weed those treaties would fall apart. than i hope you pull it off in 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted March 29, 2017 #15 Share Posted March 29, 2017 1 hour ago, OverSword said: Not true. In my state it's taxed at 37% and it's much cheaper than it was when it was illegal. Think it through a minute. Thirty-seven percent may make it cheaper, but the black market is still making money if you tax at that rate. They have to compete too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glorybebe Posted March 29, 2017 #16 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Frank you are so fixated on the black market. Maybe in Asia the black market is a huge aspect of life, but it is not in North America. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 29, 2017 #17 Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Frank Merton said: Think it through a minute. Thirty-seven percent may make it cheaper, but the black market is still making money if you tax at that rate. They have to compete too. What black market though? No one, and i mean NOONE is going to buy mexican dirt weed when they can walk down the street to their local dispensary and get high quality clean product, regardless of the cost. But as @OverSword pointed out legalization has had this WONDERFUL effect of lowering prices, a ton, so I really think your concerns about the black market are really unfounded. Edit to add unfounded, that was the word I was looking for! Edited March 29, 2017 by Farmer77 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted March 29, 2017 #18 Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Farmer77 said: What black market though? No one, and i mean NOONE is going to buy mexican dirt weed when they can walk down the street to their local dispensary and get high quality clean product, regardless of the cost. But as @OverSword pointed out legalization has had this WONDERFUL effect of lowering prices, a ton, so I really think your concerns about the black market are really unfounded. Edit to add unfounded, that was the word I was looking for! When taxes exceed around ten percent, the black market has enough margin to take a significant market share that you don't know about. It may not make as much profit as before, but that all depends on what happens to the size of the market. The fact that prices go down is good, but too much tax always opens the door for black market participation. They can take a 20% profit (compared to their previous 100%) and still make lots of money -- and a lot of folks, offered a 13% price break will buy it, quite naively. So also will a lot of retailers, thereby increasing their margin. Edited March 29, 2017 by Frank Merton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted March 29, 2017 #19 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just now, Frank Merton said: When taxes exceed around ten percent, the black market has enough margin to take a significant market share that you don't know about. It may not make as much profit as before, but that all depends on what happens to the size of the market. The fact that prices go down is good, but too much tax always opens the door for black market participation. Im not arguing with you in general terms, it sounds like you have a much better grasp on economics than I do - but there is a reason my name is Farmer, and it aint okra. The only surviving black market for marijuana I see is in states that havent legalized. In those states youve got the cartel product coming in and you have growers from legal states transporting to states which havent legalized yet in order to increase their profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted March 29, 2017 #20 Share Posted March 29, 2017 57 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Im not arguing with you in general terms, it sounds like you have a much better grasp on economics than I do - but there is a reason my name is Farmer, and it aint okra. The only surviving black market for marijuana I see is in states that havent legalized. In those states youve got the cartel product coming in and you have growers from legal states transporting to states which havent legalized yet in order to increase their profits. Think maybe about the situation with tobacco. It is all legally produced, but somehow much of it reaches high-tax states like New York via the black market. It gets diverted if the incentive to take the risks involved in breaking the law are great enough (this varies but generally hits around ten percent). This is one of several reasons why higher tax rates often result in lower revenue. I have no problem with legal marijuana, although I personally would not use it (one of the Noble Eightfold Path precepts is to avoid intoxicants -- scholars argue over whether this includes marijuana). I strongly feel that religions should "bend over backward" to avoid any effort to impose their moral views via law. It is plain that such legal prohibitions waste money, cause imprisonments and other suffering that is not right, and so on. I don't think, though, that for the long term people should expect legalization to evolve into a major government revenue source (in fact I would recommend taxing it as one taxes any commodity and get the profit from taxing the enterprise's profits). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted March 29, 2017 #21 Share Posted March 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Farmer77 said: The only surviving black market for marijuana I see is in states that havent legalized. In those states youve got the cartel product coming in and you have growers from legal states transporting to states which havent legalized yet in order to increase their profits. i do not even see much of that, cuz quality control of illegal weed does not exist, would anyone buy illegally if there are stores that sell legally for less, or even same, but a better quality?, however i do see people still use black market, those that do not want their names anywhere associated with weed. until it is legalized (not decriminalized), and no employer would fire a person for using it off work, when it is removed from controled substance list, than black market wont have any reason to exist. util then cartels will have businesses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
internetperson Posted March 29, 2017 #22 Share Posted March 29, 2017 On 3/26/2017 at 11:40 PM, Frank Merton said: If you tax it too highly you will create a black market, enriching the criminals but not the government. The black market already exists and is thriving. How do you think folks have been getting it? Any form of legalization puts a dent in said market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted March 29, 2017 #23 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just now, internetperson said: The black market already exists and is thriving. How do you think folks have been getting it? Any form of legalization puts a dent in said market. Yes I never said it didn't. It is irritating that people jump to conclusions about what you say and don't read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted March 29, 2017 #24 Share Posted March 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, aztek said: i do not even see much of that, cuz quality control of illegal weed does not exist, would anyone buy illegally if there are stores that sell legally for less, or even same, but a better quality?, however i do see people still use black market, those that do not want their names anywhere associated with weed. until it is legalized (not decriminalized), and no employer would fire a person for using it off work, when it is removed from controled substance list, than black market wont have any reason to exist. util then cartels will have businesses That will be the case if taxes aren't too high. It's a bit much to think because you don't see black market activity to assume it isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted March 29, 2017 #25 Share Posted March 29, 2017 On 3/27/2017 at 11:53 AM, glorybebe said: ave high taxes on alcohol without a huge black market. Yes, Canada does have a black market but, not to the extent that other countries have. Taxes on Marijuana will not create a black market need like having it illegal does. Having something illegal is obviously the worst situation; I am only warning not to expect to be able to tax it too high. Your economic naivety proves itself again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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