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Trump and The Environment


Farmer77

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I was going to start a thread just about the latest executive order but thought instead we'd just make this a repository for information regarding Trump and the environment. 

 

In executive order, Trump to dramatically change US approach to climate change 

President Donald Trump will sign a sweeping executive order Tuesday at the Environmental Protection Agency, which looks to curb the federal government's enforcement of climate regulations by putting American jobs above addressing climate change.

The order represents a clear difference between how Trump and former President Barack Obama view the role the United States plays in combating climate change, and dramatically alters the government's approach to rising sea levels and temperatures -- two impacts of climate change.

 

 

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Eco-Terrorists Sabotage Dakota Pipeline, Increasing Risk Of Leaks    

Eco Terrorism and the response to it from both government and non government entities were one of my biggest concerns about Trump being elected.  I am afraid this is probably just the beginning. 

Im personally conflicted over it. On the one hand I dont mind seeing a corporation doing stupid crap have to spend more to get it done, on the other though how effective is the tactic really if it simply means more pollution from more manufacturing? 

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Florida lawmakers ask Trump administration to avoid drilling in Gulf of Mexico   

In a letter sent last week to Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke, U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson is leading a group of 16 Florida congressional representatives asking to avoid drilling off the state’s west coast in the Gulf of Mexico.

Buchanan said he has been a longtime opponent of offshore drilling. Earlier this month, the Trump administration proposed leasing 73 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico over five years for offshore drilling. On Wednesday, Secretary Zinke announced the bids in a lease sale of 163 tracts totaling more than 900,000 acres in the Central Planning Area of the Outer Continental Shelf in the Gulf of Mexico off of Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi.

In Buchanan’s announcement to his joining the bipartisan group Monday, he made mention of how the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in 2010, caused by an explosion that killed 11, leaked four million barrels of oil and threatened hundreds of species. Florida is set to receive $3.25 billion over 18 years from BP after a 2015 settlement.

In related news: 

 

Edited by Farmer77
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2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Eco-Terrorists Sabotage Dakota Pipeline, Increasing Risk Of Leaks    

Eco Terrorism and the response to it from both government and non government entities were one of my biggest concerns about Trump being elected.  I am afraid this is probably just the beginning. 

Im personally conflicted over it. On the one hand I dont mind seeing a corporation doing stupid crap have to spend more to get it done, on the other though how effective is the tactic really if it simply means more pollution from more manufacturing? 

There is a certain fringe of activists that are as bad or worse than the manufacturing companies. I personally believe the activists should be prosecuted to the extent of law.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kismit said:

There is a certain fringe of activists that are as bad or worse than the manufacturing companies. I personally believe the activists should be prosecuted to the extent of law.

 

I get that, and there are extremists who are flat out dangerous for sure. That said I'm still conflicted on the overall issue.

I think in a different version of the multiverse im riding on the bow of a ship attacking a whaling vessel somewhere though so I might be a tad bit extreme myself LOL. 

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Just now, Farmer77 said:

I get that, and there are extremists who are flat out dangerous for sure. That said I'm still conflicted on the overall issue.

I think in a different version of the multiverse im riding on the bow of a ship attacking a whaling vessel somewhere though so I might be a tad bit extreme myself LOL. 

In my earlier life I was a fully paid up member of Green peace, but the magazine articles turned me off. One particular article was all about, How to make it look like you are being assaulted by a police officer. I kid you not.

I have seen activists break into private property on farms film footage and deliberately edit and add to it to black list innocent hard working ethical farmers.

I'm all for looking after the environment, but not at the expense of people.

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1 minute ago, Kismit said:

I'm all for looking after the environment, but not at the expense of people.

Balance is the key to everything. 

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We don't really need to be concerned about Climate Change.  We don't need to 'Save the Planet'.  I don't really see the Planet concerned about 'Saving Humanity'.  After all...the Planet kills more people every year than people kill people.

Climate Change...is a 'word phrase' that replaced Global Warming...after it was proven that the Planet is not in fact getting hotter.

Global Warming is a 'word phrase' that replaced Global Cooling...which was the Planetary Scare of the Eightys....after it was proven that the Planet was not in fact cooling at all.

What Climate Change really is...is a 'plan' thwarted upon us by Moscow to dramatically limit the Energy Production Capabilities of the USA.  Because...that has the long term effect of inhibiting Capitalism, which is, the Economic Engine of the USA and the West.

The reason for Climate Change was so that Moscow could 'catch up' with the technological achievements of the US and not remain a Third World Non-SuperPower.

The EPA needs to go.  The truth is only a psycho would poison his own air and water.  We are not psychos.  Not the Dems, not the Republicans...we need to just realize that the real threat in this world is still Russia and Totalitarian Communist expansion.

The Planet cannot and will not save our Liberty and Freedom...only we can do that!

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If you're interested in seeing if climate change is really an issue, May I suggest a visit to the south Island of New Zealand on a sunny day.  That hole in the ozone layer is actually someting you can feel with your own skin. 

It doesn't so much as get hot here, but it does burn like nothing I have ever experienced anywhere else.

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8 hours ago, joc said:

The EPA needs to go.  The truth is only a psycho would poison his own air and water.  We are not psychos.  Not the Dems, not the Republicans...we need to just realize that the real threat in this world is still Russia and Totalitarian Communist expansion.

I remember the Love Canal, Three Mile Island and Union Carbide. Those were the good old days!    Now we have lame ecological problems like the Flint water supply and the Pacific Gyre garbage patch.  Your right about only pyschos poisoning their own air and water, though.   Smart people poison other people's air and water.

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10 hours ago, joc said:

We don't really need to be concerned about Climate Change.  We don't need to 'Save the Planet'.  I don't really see the Planet concerned about 'Saving Humanity'.  After all...the Planet kills more people every year than people kill people.

Climate Change...is a 'word phrase' that replaced Global Warming...after it was proven that the Planet is not in fact getting hotter.

Global Warming is a 'word phrase' that replaced Global Cooling...which was the Planetary Scare of the Eightys....after it was proven that the Planet was not in fact cooling at all.

What Climate Change really is...is a 'plan' thwarted upon us by Moscow to dramatically limit the Energy Production Capabilities of the USA.  Because...that has the long term effect of inhibiting Capitalism, which is, the Economic Engine of the USA and the West.

The reason for Climate Change was so that Moscow could 'catch up' with the technological achievements of the US and not remain a Third World Non-SuperPower.

The EPA needs to go.  The truth is only a psycho would poison his own air and water.  We are not psychos.  Not the Dems, not the Republicans...we need to just realize that the real threat in this world is still Russia and Totalitarian Communist expansion.

The Planet cannot and will not save our Liberty and Freedom...only we can do that!

If only a psycho would pollute their own water, why do we cheer when Trump signs an executive order nullifying a law that stops coal companies to do just that?  Pollution is real.  Who is going to dispute that fact?  Who is going to dispute the fact that the Yellow River lost 2/3 of its fish due to pollution?  Who is going to dispute the fact that you have to wear a facemask to go outside in Beijing?  These OLD, MONEY HUNGRY CEO's are psychos, that will absolutely pollute our air and water to save a buck.  It's happened all over the world in unregulated nations, and it will happen here.  

nyc-then-and-now-occupy.jpg

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2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

 

I remember the Love Canal, Three Mile Island and Union Carbide. Those were the good old days!    Now we have lame ecological problems like the Flint water supply and the Pacific Gyre garbage patch.  Your right about only pyschos poisoning their own air and water, though.   Smart people poison other people's air and water.

Flint happened in spite of the EPA. The infrastructure was extremely outdated and deemed unnecessary to update by past administrations. It isn't the only area that has been environmentally neglected by the EPA. Other cities have just as high a level of lead in their water. If I'm not mistaken, Trump has made statements about updating infrastructures being one of his priorities, which would cover similar situations.

http://flintwaterstudy.org/2016/12/understanding-flints-water-infrastructure-crisis-water-infrastructure-inequality-in-america/

Under their watch, the Deepwater Horizon in 2010, the worst oil spill in US history occurred. They are totally inept or paid off and need a complete overhaul.

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Opposition rises quickly against proposal for Kenai Peninsula dams 

If built, the dams would create a 5,321-acre reservoir on the glacier-fed Snow River, about 15 miles north of Seward, in the Chugach National Forest. The Alaska Department of Fish and Game says the river supports migrating salmon such as silvers and sockeye.

I cant believe they're even discussing  this issue. The Kenai Peninsula is one of the most wild and beautiful places on earth 

Related image

 

 

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10 hours ago, Agent0range said:

If only a psycho would pollute their own water, why do we cheer when Trump signs an executive order nullifying a law that stops coal companies to do just that?  Pollution is real.  Who is going to dispute that fact?  Who is going to dispute the fact that the Yellow River lost 2/3 of its fish due to pollution?  Who is going to dispute the fact that you have to wear a facemask to go outside in Beijing?  These OLD, MONEY HUNGRY CEO's are psychos, that will absolutely pollute our air and water to save a buck.  It's happened all over the world in unregulated nations, and it will happen here.  

 

:clap:very well said 

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It's amazing anyone would applaud the EPA. The individual cities, counties and states have bore most of the cost with or without federal government funds. People put too much stock in the EPA.

Edited by Michelle
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Perhaps we should all spare a thought for one -

~

Quote

 

Clair Cameron Patterson (June 2, 1922 – December 5, 1995) was an American geochemist. Born in Mitchellville, Iowa, United States he graduated from Grinnell College. He later received his Ph.D. from the University of Chicago, and spent his entire professional career at the California Institute of Technology.

In collaboration with George Tilton, Patterson developed the uranium–lead dating method into lead–lead dating and, by using lead isotopic data from the Canyon Diablo meteorite, he calculated an age for the Earth of 4.55 billion years; a figure far more accurate than those that existed at the time and one that has remained largely unchanged since 1956.

Patterson had first encountered lead contamination in the late 1940s as a graduate student at the University of Chicago. His work on this led to a total re-evaluation of the growth in industrial lead concentrations in the atmosphere and the human body, and his subsequent campaigning was seminal in the banning of tetraethyllead in gasoline and lead solder in food cans.

`

 

  • wiki link
  • National Academies Press Edu Biographical Memoirs link

~

 

 

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23 hours ago, joc said:

We don't really need to be concerned about Climate Change.  We don't need to 'Save the Planet'.  I don't really see the Planet concerned about 'Saving Humanity'.  After all...the Planet kills more people every year than people kill people.

Climate Change...is a 'word phrase' that replaced Global Warming...after it was proven that the Planet is not in fact getting hotter.

Global Warming is a 'word phrase' that replaced Global Cooling...which was the Planetary Scare of the Eightys....after it was proven that the Planet was not in fact cooling at all.

What Climate Change really is...is a 'plan' thwarted upon us by Moscow to dramatically limit the Energy Production Capabilities of the USA.  Because...that has the long term effect of inhibiting Capitalism, which is, the Economic Engine of the USA and the West.

The reason for Climate Change was so that Moscow could 'catch up' with the technological achievements of the US and not remain a Third World Non-SuperPower.

The EPA needs to go.  The truth is only a psycho would poison his own air and water.  We are not psychos.  Not the Dems, not the Republicans...we need to just realize that the real threat in this world is still Russia and Totalitarian Communist expansion.

The Planet cannot and will not save our Liberty and Freedom...only we can do that!

It's a plan and a reason.... from Russia?   Moscow did all that?  Really?   How does that work exactly?

 

On 3/28/2017 at 5:10 AM, Farmer77 said:

Balance is the key to everything. 

That's what my broker said.    Trying to act like some kind of monk on a mountain....well, that rat was no monk. 

 

On 3/28/2017 at 5:09 AM, Kismit said:

There is a certain fringe of activists that are as bad or worse than the manufacturing companies. I personally believe the activists should be prosecuted to the extent of law.

In my earlier life I was a fully paid up member of Green peace, but the magazine articles turned me off. One particular article was all about, How to make it look like you are being assaulted by a police officer. I kid you not.

I have seen activists break into private property on farms film footage and deliberately edit and add to it to black list innocent hard working ethical farmers.

I'm all for looking after the environment, but not at the expense of people.

Ruining the environment comes at the expense of people, Kismit.   The environment doesn't care how much more money the fossil fuel companies make; it's an equal opportunity destroyer.   How much more money oil companies make don't care about private property either. 

The govt is breaking into private property to build pipes, walls, mines, whatever damn thing it wants next.  And they have lots of official letters written down on official papers to make it look like something other than the property crime and environmental damage it is.   True balance would involve real expense going both ways.   It really is all about balance, the balance in the energy companies' portfolios.

Besides offering up only disagreeable/negative anecdotes that you might have seen or read, what combative/positive actions should environmental activists take to fight against the Dakota and Keystone Pipelines?    To save the Great Australian Bight?    To stop whale poachers?   To stop the criminal ivory trade?    To save the rain forests from deforestation, the health of our people from Big Macs and Whoppers and cow farts, modern grocery stores loaded to the ceilings with processed junk food and "diet" soda? 

Greenpeace has positive and non-violent ideas for environmental issues:

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/how-you-can-stop-the-keystone-xl-pipeline-dead-in-its-tracks-again/

I'm sorry that a few articles in a magazine apparently ruined your support for Greenpeace.  Meanwhile somebody's got to do something, and that means FIGHT.   How does a person make it look like a police officer is assaulting them btw?  That could be useful information and I'd love to read that article rather than just serving it to demonize it without even knowing what it actually said.   And why would activists willing to break the law be breaking onto private property to film footage of "innocent hard-working ethical farmers"?   If they were really all that, there'd be nothing to film.  Something's missing in that anecdote and I don't buy it as-served.

You went on to provide another anecdote for why you think climate change is real.  So what should we do about that?    We can all jump in a pile criticizing eco terrorists, that's easy.   Having better solutions that actually work is hard.

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On 3/28/2017 at 2:39 AM, Farmer77 said:

Hmmm...I have to wonder what else has Chris White from the Daily Caller written about these pipelines?    He can't seem to wait to come right out with an entire focus on the "terrorist" attacks in five words or less.    That title.  The first three words are "Law enforcement officials".   Chris White isn't the environmentalist or climatologist we were looking for.  

"Global warming" alarmists have scientized the politics which makes their politics feel smart, and then what did they do?   They politicized the science.   Not. Cool.

The scientific solution to carbon based pollution is so easy.  Stop digging it out of the earth and stop dumping it into the atmosphere. 

So the way I see it, most positions taken against the fossil fuel industry are consequently relevant to the solution to the problem.  And it's going to take a ginormous critical mass to turn the tide against the energy complex.   This issue is even closer to bedrock for our liberty and security than even the foreign policy because the policy is slave to the entitlement holders of the complex i.e. The rich rat owners with massive influence on whatever rules and regulations the well dressed bureaucrats write down for them.  

Look at how many we're killing in the Middle East.   No questions, no apologies, no morals, no problem.  There's the hard hitting investigative journalism in this country.   It'll take dead Americans too in order to stop this deadly racket, and quite a few I'm afraid.  

After all the stupid things Rs and Ds actually argue about, they all read from the same hymnbook when it comes to foreign policy.   They're owned and they don't even know it, by those with real ownership.  And that mountain of murder requires a lot of religious excuses, and excuses about religion, to expand its honey holes.

The average American chickens 'n cows voter doesn't care about the environment any more than "Cheap oil in my face right now!"   Besides, who wants to vote against their 401k?   So at the end of any genuine environmental debate, who gives a damn what they think; they're not going to solve anything.   They won't use their power to fix the problem, so we can only look to the sovereignty of the Americans who will.  

It's amazing to me how pacifistic and sinless an environmental activist needs to be in order to be politically popular though.   That's another group that goes from "Snowflake" to "Terrorist" in 3.5 seconds.   Big Oil is in cahoots with terrorists.  Big Oil is a terrorist.   

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On 3/28/2017 at 5:03 AM, Farmer77 said:

I get that, and there are extremists who are flat out dangerous for sure. That said I'm still conflicted on the overall issue.

I think in a different version of the multiverse im riding on the bow of a ship attacking a whaling vessel somewhere though so I might be a tad bit extreme myself LOL. 

Nah, sometimes you've gotta give 'em some anchor box! 

 

A much kinder, gentler form of Capt. Watson's "Steel Enema" which is no less than the whale poachers deserve.   They deserve to have their poaching equipment confiscated and destroyed, justice be done.

Meanwhile, less extreme more effective ideas remain always welcome.  :)

 

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Al Gore targets Trump in 'An Inconvenient Sequel'

 

I swear to god gore does more harm to the environmentalist movement than he does good. Those opposed to the concept of global warming are simply going to dig in further at this point and all this movie will do is cause more division. 

Stop with the global warming nonsense. Seriously, instead of fighting over whether global warming is real or not lets just fight pollution. No one can deny pollution is happening and no one can deny pollution is bad. 

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To be on the safe side, I'm simply going to give your opinion of Al Gore a :tu:.

I can't say how much I despise that man and what he's done to the cause.

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1 minute ago, Michelle said:

To be on the safe side, I'm simply going to give your opinion of Al Gore a :tu:.

I can't say how much I despise that man and what he's done to the cause.

Hey thanks. 

With the democrat field wide open, and the democrats pretty well assured victory (at this point obviously things can change) in 2020 I fear this might be the beginning of his campaign for president - again. If I were a dem strategist I would pair him with a young and upcoming latino and the pair would be a shoe in after the disastrous trump presidency (again thus far anyways). 

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1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Hey thanks. 

With the democrat field wide open, and the democrats pretty well assured victory (at this point obviously things can change) in 2020 I fear this might be the beginning of his campaign for president - again. If I were a dem strategist I would pair him with a young and upcoming latino and the pair would be a shoe in after the disastrous trump presidency (again thus far anyways). 

Bite your tongue! 

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A really good article: 

WHY DONALD TRUMP CAN'T SAVE THE COAL INDUSTRY

 

Coal plants have been closing year after year. In 2005, there were 619 coal-fired power plants in the United States; that number dropped to 427 by 2015—long before the Obama administration announced the Clean Power Plan. In fact, since Trump won the presidency, six more coal-fired power plants have closed or announced they will. Over the same time, the number of natural gas plants climbed from 1,664 to 1,779. (And don’t forget the many non-hydroelectric plants running on renewable energy like solar. Those climbed from 781 to 3,043. Such renewables, which generated next to nothing in 1990, now account for almost 10 percent of total power generated in the U.S.)

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