taniwha Posted March 31, 2017 #26 Share Posted March 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, Carnivorfox said: Lizards are not at all a good comparison for tyrannosaurs, since they are not closely related. Better comparisons would be modern archosaurs like crocodilians and birds, which do indeed have well-developed color vision. And your thoughts my earlier query above? "And combining the ISO with the binocular eyes do you think it's possible it had thermal vision?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted March 31, 2017 #27 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Just now, taniwha said: And your thoughts my earlier query above? "And combining the ISO with the binocular eyes do you think it's possible it had thermal vision?" Tyrannosaurs could have been nocturnal hunters and had night vision, as crocodilians and some birds do as well. However, good eyesight would have been just as useful during the day. Combining ISOs with binocular eyes wouldn't have given it infrared thermal vision. No archosaurs are known to have infrared vision, so it s doubtful that tyrannosaurs would have had it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted March 31, 2017 #28 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Carnivorfox said: Snakes have the Jacobson's organ, which is actually a chemoreceptor used for smell. I think in the pit vipers it was updated to include an ability to convert infrared radiation into very accurate 3d imaging. https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/phys.org/news/2006-08-snakes-vision-enables-accurate-prey.amp And this from wiki: Quote It was previously thought that the organs evolved primarily as prey detectors, but recent evidence suggests that it may also be used in thermoregulation and predator detection, making it a more general-purpose sensory organ than was supposed. I know snakes are not dinosaurs. But perhaps thermoregulation is a common ancestor? Quote Thermoregulation is the ability of an organism to keep its body temperature within certain boundaries, even when the surrounding temperature is very different. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_sensing_in_snakes# 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted March 31, 2017 #29 Share Posted March 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, taniwha said: I think in the pit vipers it was updated to include an ability to convert infrared radiation into very accurate 3d imaging. https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/phys.org/news/2006-08-snakes-vision-enables-accurate-prey.amp And this from wiki: I know snakes are not dinosaurs. But perhaps thermoregulation is a common ancestor? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_sensing_in_snakes# Dinosaurs would have used thermoregulation, as do pretty much all animals. They most likely would have been endothermic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted March 31, 2017 #30 Share Posted March 31, 2017 19 minutes ago, Carnivorfox said: Dinosaurs would have used thermoregulation, as do pretty much all animals. They most likely would have been endothermic. Or maybe mesothermic? Quote Dinosaurs may not have been cold-blooded like modern reptiles or warm-blooded like mammals and birds — instead, they may have dominated the planet for 135 million years with blood that ran neither hot nor cold, but was a kind of in-between that's rare nowadays, researchers say. http://www.livescience.com/46293-dinosaurs-had-in-between-blood.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted March 31, 2017 #31 Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, taniwha said: Or maybe mesothermic? http://www.livescience.com/46293-dinosaurs-had-in-between-blood.html Endothermy and mesothermy are both possibilities. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted March 31, 2017 #32 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Carnivorfox said: Endothermy and mesothermy are both possibilities. Thanks for your feedback Carnivorfox much appreciated 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted March 31, 2017 #33 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Just now, taniwha said: Thanks for your feedback Carnivorfox much appreciated No problem. I'm always happy to discuss dinosaurs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldrover Posted March 31, 2017 #34 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Also mammals come in all flavours, heterothermic, endothermic, part time hetero/endothermic. Temperature regulation is a fascinating subject. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldrover Posted March 31, 2017 #35 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) In mammals, internal temperature regulation is seen as an adaptation for reproduction/young rearing, does perhaps the evidence for it in Archosaurs also coincide with evidence for increased parental care? Edited March 31, 2017 by oldrover 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted March 31, 2017 #36 Share Posted March 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, oldrover said: In mammals, internal temperature regulation is seen as an adaptation for reproduction/young rearing, does perhaps the evidence for it in Archosaurs also coincide with evidence for increased parental care? That's a feasible correlation; there is evidence for parental care in dinosaurs (ie. Maiasaura). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldrover Posted March 31, 2017 #37 Share Posted March 31, 2017 But, there's also evidence of endothermy form other branches of the Archosaur line, in Pterosaurs, and possibly the Crocodylomorphs. Is there any evidence of parental care in those groups? Also, if that is the case what do you think, is that evidence of some degree of thermoregulation in the basal member of the Archosaur clade (although this would depend I suppose to on it being present in the early Crocodylomorphs) or do you think it suggests independent development of this in each line. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted March 31, 2017 #38 Share Posted March 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, oldrover said: But, there's also evidence of endothermy form other branches of the Archosaur line, in Pterosaurs, and possibly the Crocodylomorphs. Is there any evidence of parental care in those groups? Also, if that is the case what do you think, is that evidence of some degree of thermoregulation in the basal member of the Archosaur clade (although this would depend I suppose to on it being present in the early Crocodylomorphs) or do you think it suggests independent development of this in each line. Parental care in modern crocodilians is well-documented, so their extinct relatives were probably similar. As for pterosaurs, there has yet to be found any evidence of parental care. I would say an endothermic/mesothermic thermoregulatory system was probably basal to the Ornithodira (Pterosauria+Dinosauria clade), if not the Archosauria as a whole. The evolution of endothermy/mesothermy may be tied to the evolution of skeletal pneumaticity and pulmonary air sacs, which are only definitely known from the Ornithodira. See Butler et al. 2012 for more info on this: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0034094 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbloodmoon Posted April 1, 2017 #39 Share Posted April 1, 2017 As if they needen any more reasons to be scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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