Anyone ever heard of the Bafometters?

[back to earth]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

I think at the beginning of the crusades, many of the Christians from Europe must have thought that nothing good could have been learn't from the Muslim infidel but after mingling around for the better part of 300 years i would not have surprised if they learn't and well a taught. Baking and medicine two amongst many others. Had no idea that Allah was a boys name. Yes it does sound weird calling your child God. Avery lot to live up to.

Indeed ,  hermetics in the form of Islamic Sciences eventually was introduced into Europe; medicine, astronomy ,  Al-Gebera , etc . at a time when Europe was very backwards and walking through its own poo in the streets .

I do believe the euros did have  'baking'   previously      

Say hello to little  Jesus ; 

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Indeed ,  hermetics in the form of Islamic Sciences eventually was introduced into Europe; medicine, astronomy ,  Al-Gebera , etc . at a time when Europe was very backwards and walking through its own poo in the streets .

I do believe the euros did have  'baking'   previously      

Say hello to little  Jesus ; 

Jesus is not a god, infidel. Mohammad is the prophet just like Jesus, well sorta. and it was meant to be banking and not baking. auto-correct I'm afraid. Your anti westernness is well noted.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Captain Risky

[back to earth]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Go away...

Nope .

[back to earth]

45 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

The Templars red cross on a white mantel worn as a outward symbol other devotion to Christ is proof enough of the silliness that they even mentioned the prophet of their enemy in battle.

Proof enough for you maybe .    Besides, where did I say they  mentioned  the name ? The original source used here in the wiki article ......  ahhh Gawd !  I do it again for you ! 

" ...   they called loudly upon Baphometh  "

You and probably their inquisitors take this to mean they called upon Baphomet to help them ,  or it could mean  " They called loudly (out to  ) the Baphomeths   ( Mahoumads ... Mohammedens .... Musselmans  Muslims, as well them in todays lingo )  - ie, challenging them  

and then they prayed to their God . 

" Come out and fight you  Baphomets !   "   ... God, give me strength for this battle .   I am not surprised the whole thing was twisted up .....   look at the varieties of supposed confessions git from under torture ......  talking heads,  fraternising with the enemy ( even letting them do a pubic shave on one's wife apparently  ) ,  fighting WITH the enemy, the ' naughty kiss',  spitting on the cross,  being gay,  etc   etc . 

You might be surprised what one will confess to while being tortured ... basically , anything ... anything to get the torture to stop . 

" Under torture, some Templars admitted to sodomy and to the worship of heads and an idol known as Baphomet.^[30] Their leaders later denied these admissions, and for that were executed. Some scholars, such as Malcolm Barber, Helen Nicholson and Peter Partner, discount these as forced admissions, typical during the Medieval Inquisition. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar#Heresy.2C_blasphemy.2C_and_other_charges

 

45 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

 

Which quite frankly would have been a dis incentive to the other Christians fighting around them. Don't believe he false allegations of the King of France and his lacky pope. 

Yes , what you were postulating (   in a way in which I never was )   does seem ridiculous ; that Christian Knights in the midst of a battle against Muslims would have part of them , shouting out ( favourably, one assumes , according to what you seem to be trying to saying )  to  Allah .....  or was it   Mohammed  ...... or was it  the devil   .... sorry ,  what was the current twist on your wrong ideas attributed to me again ?   I lost track of them . 

[back to earth]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Nah i think i will continue to be more rational and measured in my views concerning the Templars and Gnosticism. The Templars

Ah !  Great news .... I await with anticipation !  

 

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

were educated and exposed to much thought from other surrounding peoples and religion. Ritual heads and secrets independently of the church are not normal and catholic ideals. The Templars evolved and the church felt threatened. Thats all. 

I see ... is this a response to the idea that you were wrong ( and showed to be wrong ) about the Baptism of Wisdom idea ? Does this mean you are redacting that idea ? 

I think , however, it is a good point, this idea of  'evolution' ... it does seem the templars were an early form of the first movement against the old order of things and church/monarchist authority . yes, this certainly threatened the church  ( that and the vast amount of banking funds they were amassing     ) 

[back to earth]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Stop them drugs, mate... its afr too early in the day for that!

Indeed , I have not even had my blood pressure meds yet .   But no need at this stage .

( A rainy Saturday morning, so instead of me rushing off to train in town in the park with the gang , I am still sitting up in bed having coffee and able to direct you towards a more subtler truth    ) 

( However , later this afternoon ..... well , we are not supposed to talk about such things here    .... I will catch up with you then .  )

[back to earth]

50 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Jesus is not a god, infidel.

Oh ?   After you wrote all that stuff about Catholicism and what catholics would and would not accept at the time of the Crusades, I thought you would have understood this basic precept ?  

But now it is clear .....   I had no Idea you were a  Muslim,    Capt.  Risky !  

Oh, by the way,  my comment was about the Allah being a boy's name ... just like Jesus is in Mexico ... I guess you missed that, or cant follow the conversation ? 

Quote

 

Mohammad is the prophet just like Jesus, well sorta.

Yes, I understand this is what     ....      you people   .....    believe .

Quote

and it was meant to be banking and not baking. auto-correct I'm afraid.

Ah!  I see .   Yes,     it is better that you are afraid of banking than you are of baking . 

Quote

Your anti westernness is well noted.

No ....    I am not available to be signed up to whatever cause you want to push here .

Maybe take it over to Syria ?  I hear they are not too keen on the west at the moment ? 

Edited April 8, 2017 by back to earth

[Unusual Tournament]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar

[back to earth]

Exactly, thats the site I linked to to back up my accurate info I posted in post   #  79 .  

Since you just stuck a link there with no comment - one must assume you agree with me now  re the points I made in post #79  ? 

Unless you are just now desperately posting information you never read to refute posts you never read ,  with the same link in them  ? 

[Unusual Tournament]

4 hours ago, back to earth said:

Of course it is .....  absolutely  ridiculous !  Whoever heard of such a silly thing .... actually , whoever made up such a silly thing in the first place ?

Not me !   I said  "  evoked " ... and I explained what it mean .  If they were praying to their own God to come and help them ... or put his power INTO them then that would be an invocation. 

here we go again;

Firstly 'to evoke' comes from a process of 'calling out' or calling forth' ... like  : I think we better step out side " ... or   " Come over here and say that " ,  etc .

Secondly ... how did 'their enemies God's name'  get into it ?     That was  Allah , in case you didnt realise.   Mahamoud  ... or variations was the name they gave to the profit and the people ... as already explained, as in the link and as affirmed by modern scholars and in the Oxford dictionary ( you should really read more carefully and follow the links to the extended information and proofs ) .

Thirdly ....  it isnt ridiculous at all ... only if you interpret everything the wrong way , ignore the academic interest and prefer occult old age post Victorian pseudo historical Freemasonry updated by modern internet stupidity  =   Blood Order of   Bafometters .

 

Here is something your might understand better ;  a soldier under siege that refuses to be evoked or called outside for a battle challenge  ; he has put the others in an infuriating position by  not playing by the rules of chivalry ;

 

 

It assumes me greatly to read your gibberish and non sensical rabbling. Here is something much more tangible. 

A 12th-century pilgrim to the Holy Land described the Templars in the field:

Their black and white standard, which is called the baucent, goes before them into battle. They go into battle without making a noise. They are the first to desire engagement and more vigorous than the others. When the trumpet sounds for advance, they piously sing this psalm of David: "Not to us Lord, not to us but to your name give the glory." They couch their lances and charge into the enemy. As one body they ravage the ranks of the enemy, they never yield. They either destroy the foe completely or they die. In returning from battle they are the last to go behind the rest of the crowd looking after all the rest and protecting them. (Helen Nicholson, Knights Templar 1120-1312, 45)

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-sad-history-of-the-knights-templar

[Unusual Tournament]

He's gone. back to earth is probably sulking that he just can't refute and recant his own silliness. Lets all be gentle and understanding at this time. Hope you get better bro  

[back to earth]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

It assumes me greatly to read your gibberish and non sensical rabbling. Here is something much more tangible. 

A 12th-century pilgrim to the Holy Land described the Templars in the field:

Their black and white standard, which is called the baucent, goes before them into battle. They go into battle without making a noise. They are the first to desire engagement and more vigorous than the others. When the trumpet sounds for advance, they piously sing this psalm of David: "Not to us Lord, not to us but to your name give the glory." They couch their lances and charge into the enemy. As one body they ravage the ranks of the enemy, they never yield. They either destroy the foe completely or they die. In returning from battle they are the last to go behind the rest of the crowd looking after all the rest and protecting them. (Helen Nicholson, Knights Templar 1120-1312, 45)

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-sad-history-of-the-knights-templar

Of course .... and every single unit was the same .    

I wonder if you forgot the main point of this ; that what was taken to suggest they called out 'Bapho metres '   was extracted by torturous confession

or that I was not suggesting any historical reality , but offering a suggestion  IF  that is what they called out . 

or that, up until a few posts ago you were sprouting  it meant  'baptism of wisdom' .  

 

But as usual , I suspect we shall soon get  " I never said  none of that ! " 

 

All you had to do, to follow things was to actually read the wiki links put up and you yourself put up .

 

Declaring  publicly that I am on drugs and writing nonsense and  rambling  ( when I already proved my points over yours several times now - with references)  ... is not really a point for your side of the debate ...  actually its not clear what your position is as it shifts so quickly ( due to unacknowledged sources and links  others have  give you  here  , I imagine ) 

[back to earth]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

He's gone. back to earth is probably sulking that he just can't refute and recant his own silliness. Lets all be gentle and understanding at this time. Hope you get better bro  

No,  I went and did some gardening , weeded my new crop of broad beans , did a load of washing, moved a stack of damp  firewood to a dry position. and fixed a puncture on the ride on mower.  And made several  erudite and enlightening posts elsewhere here that intelligent people were  thankful for ... I guess THEY can follow me  ?    I can link you to them if you like  ( before you start calling me a liar again - about things I can easily prove      ) 

Now, have you got anything valid to offer or just attempted mocking and catcalling like you usually resort to when things get a little deep for you ?  

[Unusual Tournament]

44 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Of course .... and every single unit was the same .    

The Templars were a disciplined fighting force. Im sure not prone to outbursts and silly remarks. Unlike some on this post.  Especially calling out the name of their enemies prophet. Just just too silly on too many levels. and now to even suggest that it was "some" units that could have said so... Lots of gardening, eh?

[hetrodoxly]

10 hours ago, back to earth said:

Indeed ,  hermetics in the form of Islamic Sciences eventually was introduced into Europe; medicine, astronomy ,  Al-Gebera , etc . at a time when Europe was very backwards and walking through its own poo in the streets .

I do believe the euros did have  'baking'   previously      

Say hello to little  Jesus ; 

Yes Jesus was called so because it's a boys name.

There is no excuse for this. We’ve known better since Victorian times, and the Victorians would be appalled by our continuing ignorance.

The 19th century was a great age of rediscovery, when huge numbers of documents and manuscripts were published and medieval history and culture became widely respected and celebrated. The Dark Ages – dark only because of our ignorance of them – were dark no more.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/our-voices/battle-of-ideas/the-dark-ages-were-a-lot-brighter-than-we-give-them-credit-for-8215395.html

[back to earth]

16 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

The Templars were a disciplined fighting force. Im sure not prone to outbursts and silly remarks. Unlike some on this post.  Especially calling out the name of their enemies prophet. Just just too silly on too many levels. and now to even suggest that it was "some" units that could have said so... Lots of gardening, eh?

No , you are twisting things to make them sound silly .  I never said any of that , what I  said earlier was clear and backed up by historical letter and I postulated from that .

My idea was .... if you can remember, instead of just ranting ,   had noting to do whatsoever with the templars calling out the name of the Muslim's  prophet ... this is rubbish you yourself are making up ... and then you yourself condemn it as rubbish .

 

This is usualy behaviour for you, you dont get things sometimes and you make up stuff about what ot means then go on for posts and posts  behaving ..... well, the way you do .... about it .

This is about the 8th thread you have done it in, it gets to the point where many posters go " Oh no not Risky again .... and 'Oh no, this guy os SIlver Lyre ! 

What I was suggestig is that Baphomet , as shown by the wiki article linked to several times  can be seen to be a corruptive mistranslation of Mahoumeden  ....  a name for the Muslims  ....

eg 

The ordinary word in English is "Muslim". It is sometimes transliterated as "Moslem", which is an older spelling.^{[citation needed]} The word Mosalman (Persian: مسلمان‎‎, alternatively Mussalman) is a common equivalent for Muslim used in Central Asia. Until at least the mid-1960s, many English-language writers used the term Mohammedans or Mahometans.^[25]Although such terms were not necessarily intended to be pejorative, Muslims argue that the terms are offensive because they allegedly imply that Muslims worship Muhammad rather than God.^[26] Other obsolete terms include Muslimite^[27] and Muslimist.^[28]

Musulmán/Mosalmán (Persian: مسلمان‎‎) is a synonym for Muslim and is modified from Arabic. It is the origin of the Spanish word musulmán, the (dated) German Muselmann, the French word musulman, the Polish words muzułmanin and muzułmański, the Portuguese word muçulmano, the Italian word mussulmano or musulmano, the Romanian word musulman and the Greek word μουσουλμάνος (all used for a Muslim).^[29] In English it was sometimes spelled Mussulman and has become archaic in usage

 

 and the letter ;

 

Sequenti die aurora apparente, altis vocibus Baphometh invocaverunt; et nos Deum nostrum in cordibus nostris deprecantes, impetum facientes in eos, de muris civitatis omnes expulimus.[5]

As the next day dawned, they called loudly upon Baphometh; and we prayed silently in our hearts to God, then we attacked and forced all of them outside the city walls.[6]

 

There it is right there   !   Not from me . 

 

and the relevant comment :

A chronicler of the First Crusade, Raymond of Aguilers, called the mosques Bafumarias

Now, as you can see, this calling out idea was never mine in the first place !

All your dancing mockery suggestion of taking drugs and other idiocy you posted  is directed at the wrong person .

 "Raimundus de Agiles says of the Mahometans: In ecclesiis autem magnis Bafumarias faciebant . . . . habebant monticulum ubi duæ erant Bafumariæ. The troubadours employ Baformaria for mosque, and Bafomet for Mahomet." Michaud, p. 497.

Take up your silly argument  with Michaud  ....

Now go sit in the corner, do your homework and learn something  . 

... and when you have realised what a naughty boy you have been ... you may come out of the corner and have   (if you are good ) 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by back to earth

[Unusual Tournament]

Oh so now you are "suggesting." Not stating that the Templars used it in battle as a sort of name calling.  You know if internet back flipping was an olympic event you'd do Australia proud. 

[back to earth]

12 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Yes Jesus was called so because it's a boys name.

In Mexico , not in  Jewish Palestine 4ad    

12 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

There is no excuse for this. We’ve known better since Victorian times, and the Victorians would be appalled by our continuing ignorance.

?  No excuse for what ?     Jesus being a boys name  ?    

12 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

The 19th century was a great age of rediscovery, when huge numbers of documents and manuscripts were published and medieval history and culture became widely respected and celebrated. The Dark Ages – dark only because of our ignorance of them – were dark no more.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/our-voices/battle-of-ideas/the-dark-ages-were-a-lot-brighter-than-we-give-them-credit-for-8215395.html

Indeed the ' Dark Ages '  were a lot lighter than we give them credit for (usually) . yes I know about that . Cant think what the point is though  and why you posted this under  my text quote ? 

Reardless of the  level of   misunderstanding, they DID at times in some cities have open sewers in the street , the crap ran down alley walls from people emptying pots out of windows .  

And it is a well known academic fact that Islamic . hermetic arts and sciences  bought about a new age of civilisation for the west .

Regardless of how advanced or not Europe was at the time . 

 

and no, I am not a 'western traitor' as Risky seems to be trying to make out , I am a white westerner to  ... this isnt Euro ancestor bashing (or whatever it is peeps gettin' edgy about )  its .... ummmm .....    history. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe

http://www.idosi.org/wjihc/wjihc2(3)12/7.pdf

 

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, back to earth said:

 

and no, I am not a 'western traitor' as Risky seems to be trying to make out , I am a white westerner to  ... this isnt Euro ancestor bashing (or whatever it is peeps gettin' edgy about )  its .... ummmm .....    history. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe

http://www.idosi.org/wjihc/wjihc2(3)12/7.pdf

 

I didn't call you a traitor just that you had an anti western streak in you. Ive noticed it alot. Just lately its getting more pronounced. I was under the impression that you are of Aboriginal extraction? 

[back to earth]

12 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Oh so now you are "suggesting." Not stating that the Templars used it in battle as a sort of name calling.  You know if internet back flipping was an olympic event you'd do Australia proud. 

Hmmmm ... you seem to be having a LOT more trouble than usual comprehending things today ! 

NOW and always I was SAYING ....   that the idea of it first arose with 

As the next day dawned, they called loudly upon Baphometh; and we prayed silently in our hearts to God, then we attacked and forced all of them outside the city walls.^[6]

^{Now, if you are confused and think I wrote that  .....  well,   I have no idea how to help you here .}  

^{Whatever that has to do with backflipping is incomprehensible  (for the normal minded person )} 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, back to earth said:

Hmmmm ... you seem to be having a LOT more trouble than usual comprehending things today ! 

NOW and always I was SAYING ....   that the idea of it first arose with 

As the next day dawned, they called loudly upon Baphometh; and we prayed silently in our hearts to God, then we attacked and forced all of them outside the city walls.^[6]

^{Now, if you are confused and think I wrote that  .....  well,   I have no idea how to help you here .}  

^{Whatever that has to do with backflipping is incomprehensible  (for the normal minded person )} 

Since the literal translation of Baphometh hasn't been established other than a figure of worship it seems extraordinary that you would equate it to Mohammad. These were noble men of high birth sworn to the service of Christ... why wold they even mention him in battle? No reason. Baphometh or whatever variation in that name must have a Christian connotation. I proposed that it might be from old Greek alluding to some type of veneration of John the Baptist. You argued that and instead continued on your merry way... trying to propagate another one of your fanciful claims based on your anti European views. 

You know it wouldn't kill ya to just post a smily face and admit that you were wrong.   

[back to earth]

7 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

I didn't call you a traitor just that you had an anti western streak in you. Ive noticed it alot. Just lately its getting more pronounced. I was under the impression that you are of Aboriginal extraction? 

 

and I thought you were some  uneducated westie Aussie Roman Catholic     

You are 'under '  lots of 'impressions'   , regardless of any attempts to try and help educate you .   Who knows where you get these ideas from ! 

I suppose all along you have been imagining  some aboriginal ,  anti white , anti westerner , making up stuff to discredit you ? 

All you had to do was to check the links and info I offered up to support my positions in the posts I made ... instead of you coming up with some prejudicial concepts about the person rather than look at the information.

It appears I may have bumped a sacred cow   here by daring to suggest that Europeans were not in the past, all we imagined them to be ?  . 

 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, back to earth said:

 

and I thought you were some  uneducated westie Aussie Roman Catholic     

You are 'under '  lots of 'impressions'   , regardless of any attempts to try and help educate you .   Who knows where you get these ideas from ! 

I suppose all along you have been imagining  some aboriginal ,  anti white , anti westerner , making up stuff to discredit you ? 

All you had to do was to check the links and info I offered up to support my positions in the posts I made ... instead of you coming up with some prejudicial concepts about the person rather than look at the information.

It appears I may have bumped a sacred cow   here by daring to suggest that Europeans were not in the past, all we imagined them to be ?  . 

 

Are you from Aboriginal extraction?

[back to earth]

8 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Since the literal translation of Baphometh hasn't been established other than a figure of worship it seems extraordinary that you would equate it to Mohammad.

My God you thick today !   ... a lot of this would end right now if you could read what a link and I actually said instead of  your blind ranting aboyt things already established .    

 "Raimundus de Agiles says of the Mahometans: In ecclesiis autem magnis Bafumarias faciebant . . . . habebant monticulum ubi duæ erant Bafumariæ. The troubadours employ Baformaria for mosque, and Bafomet for Mahomet." Michaud, p. 497.

 

You keep doing this, over and over again , regardless of the thread and subject matter .

What is it with you ? 

 

[back to earth]

15 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

 These were noble men of high birth sworn to the service of Christ...

Ahhhh .... now I get it , your intelligent observation has been clouded by your religious persuasions !  You are a Catholic aren't you ! 

Lets look at  these noble men of high birth and their  'crusading '  service to christ ;

Cut off Saracens buttocks and roasted them on a fire and ate them -   ie. cannablism. 

As soon as they got to 'Asia' they started slaughtering ... but whoops ,  they were Christians , guess they forgot to check first - murder.

Service of Christ ?  Many got rich out if it - mercenaries. 

First international bankers - usury .

It goes on ... no links as this should be common knowledge  (  not to the romanticly prejudiced I suppose though ) 

15 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

why wold they even mention him in battle? No reason. Baphometh or whatever variation in that name must have a Christian connotation.

 "Raimundus de Agiles says of the Mahometans: In ecclesiis autem magnis Bafumarias faciebant . . . . habebant monticulum ubi duæ erant Bafumariæ. The troubadours employ Baformaria for mosque, and Bafomet for Mahomet." Michaud, p. 497.

15 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

 

I proposed that it might be from old Greek alluding to some type of veneration of John the Baptist. You argued that and instead continued on your merry way...

'I argued it and instead continued on my way "   Wot ?    .... now your syntax has broken down as well. 

15 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

 

trying to propagate another one of your fanciful claims based on your anti European views. 

 "Raimundus de Agiles says of the Mahometans: In ecclesiis autem magnis Bafumarias faciebant . . . . habebant monticulum ubi duæ erant Bafumariæ. The troubadours employ Baformaria for mosque, and Bafomet for Mahomet." Michaud, p. 497.

 

15 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

You know it wouldn't kill ya to just post a smily face and admit that you were wrong.   

I cant ... I would have to 'admit'  that   Michaud was wrong .

You have trouble following the line of a conversation dont you ?   I imagine this happens in real life too ?