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Buddhism and the Tarot Teachings

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The Tarot deck can be used as an instructional guide to psycho-spiritual development.  Following the path of the Fool which is the number 0 in the Major Arcana, a third level of consciousness, the super-consciousness is achieved at a psychological apex which is represented by the World card, number 21. Among many tenets, this supra level of consciousness embraces the knowledge that all humanity are One.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=306108

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Bidhism espesialy sangha member, or Buddhis teach regular warns people who have the abelity or abhina not to shows yourself cause would create attachment, and there niraya or hell wait for people who does reading people cause people may create missguide or missleading other people let people go to entrapment in this world and could be contonue to many after lifes

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The Tarot is related to the Jewish Torah, and some of the cards have the word Torah in them.  I think it's said if you meditate on them you can find where each card relates to the Torah.  I think the 7 of swords is Jesus as the thief in the night, should he go back to pick up those 2 other swords, or make off with what he has.  Also relations to how the Jews failed to kill off all the Caananites in the Torah, they couldn't go back and destroy them once they decided to cower out, God gave them only one chance at it, no looking back.  So they have to suffer with a corrupted race forever, and the whole world suffers in a corrupted salvation because that's the teaching, that the Jews are the root where salvation comes to mankind, and they messed up at it, so salvation is screwed up to all mankind from each of the Jews mistakes, and it won't recover until it's cleansed in fire.

Nothing against Buddhism really, but I was wondering I thought I remember Buddha was a Hindu? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw a story about it as a child of Buddha coming down out of a high caste to live as lowly as possible.  I enjoy Hinduism, but lets not give what belongs to one and give it to someone completely different.  That's what Solomon calls the great evil and great disease.

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Posted (edited)

Bodhisatva Sidartha Gautama as child enjoy wealth his father worried cause the Bodhisatva Sidartha Gautama would left the Throne , exception there a feast when Bodhisatva Sidartha Gautama go meditation under the tree, the shadow of the tree unmove to protec Bhodhisatva Sidartha Gautama from the sun ray until the Bodhisatva Sidartha Gautama finish the meditation.

People who did good (good karma) and kindness things;  would always been cherish by nature, where ever he go or walk

Edited by Daimond25

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8 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

The Tarot is related to the Jewish Torah

No, not at all !   Sorry . 

and some of the cards have the word Torah in them.

Nah ... it says Taro then back to the forst T as last    Tarot ... the tarot cards have tarot written on them not torah

Related image

 

There is no H  ... only the hebrew He letter and that is different , it is spelling YHVH .   And that is an elemental formula ... not Jehovah .

Quote

  I think it's said if you meditate on them you can find where each card relates to the Torah.

Who says that ?  Not Jews ... not ayn taroist I have read or encountered  !  I been meditating on them for  over 30 years too. 

And I know a bit of Kabbalah ... do you actually know what  'Torah '   is  ?

Quote

  I think the 7 of swords is Jesus as the thief in the night, should he go back to pick up those 2 other swords, or make off with what he has.

yes, people think all sorts of nutty stuff about the images on a card .....  some even think that the RW tarot, where you got this image from, actually describes what the card represents !   AND  that  this is the only image it can represent .... instead of just one wild obscure over worded and uneducated bluffer ... known as  Mr A E Waite ... inventor of said deck ...   instructed a rather bad artists to paint .

Why on earth would you think the fellow depicted on that card is jesus ? 

Quote

  Also relations to how the Jews failed to kill off all the Caananites in the Torah, they couldn't go back and destroy them once they decided to cower out, God gave them only one chance at it, no looking back.  So they have to suffer with a corrupted race forever, and the whole world suffers in a corrupted salvation because that's the teaching, that the Jews are the root where salvation comes to mankind, and they messed up at it, so salvation is screwed up to all mankind from each of the Jews mistakes, and it won't recover until it's cleansed in fire.

Errmmmm ....   :blink:   please do not take up reading tarot for other people .

 

Quote

Nothing against Buddhism really, but I was wondering I thought I remember Buddha was a Hindu? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw a story about it as a child of Buddha coming down out of a high caste to live as lowly as possible.  I enjoy Hinduism, but lets not give what belongs to one and give it to someone completely different.  That's what Solomon calls the great evil and great disease.

Oi  vey !  .....     yes, well you know how Jesus was supposedly born in a Jewish world and sort to address some 'philosophical points' in that world ?    Sorta same with Buddha and  the religions around back then .

Buddha was never a Hindu !   Hinduism had not been invented back then .

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No, back to earth, it is related to the torah, also notice the archangel cards.  For telling me not to give readings I'm going to do a reading for you personally.

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There are kabbalistic influences in the Tarot, but it is not an exclusive, ownership of the Torah.  For there are Druidic, Pagan and Shamanic influences as well.

As with all things of a metaphysical nature, there is no ownership, only pairings, partnership and connection through the web of universal life.

Jung understood this and tried to explain it with western scientific filters and mindset to some success.

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On 4/9/2017 at 4:56 AM, Opus Magnus said:

No, back to earth, it is related to the torah,

You are just saying that with no back up or demonstration . Show where how and why it is related to Torah .

Since you never answered my question about if you knew what Torah actually is ;

(in Judaism) the law of God as revealed to Moses and recorded in the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures (the Pentateuch).

So, now, relate the tarot deck to the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures. 

 

On 4/9/2017 at 4:56 AM, Opus Magnus said:

also notice the archangel cards.

What 'archangel cards' are you talking about ? 

On 4/9/2017 at 4:56 AM, Opus Magnus said:

  For telling me not to give readings I'm going to do a reading for you personally.

I see.  You are one of those people that changes what others said and then react to your own changes .  That sort of person makes a TERRIBLE  Tarot reader ....  they are likely to include all sorts of ego tricks and  subtle persuasive BS t try and get their way .... but I should not prejudge you .  I never  told you not to give readings at all , did I ? 

lets just look at the reading you gave me instead ( which I never wanted, by the  way ). 

God has a purpose for you, and has selected you for a specific task and is imbuing you with what you need to accomplish it.  However, you must beware not overstepping your boundaries with what you already know you should do, because death and failure lies beyond those things."

What a steaming load !     Really bad tarot reading full of your own projections .  

I will give you hint, before you start sprouting about God to someone in one of your 'readings'  , best to make sure they are into that rubbish first ! 

Second, dont try to get them on side first by spiritual flattery - cheap trick . 

THird, dont use your tarot readings to try and persuade people to adapt behaviour that suits your own purposes. 

Fourth  dont subtly threaten people with death and failure if they dont listen to your 'spiritual messages' .

Fifth - dont go around foisting your 'readings' on people that dont want them. 

Really BAD reading ,  beginner kindergarten stuff . 

...  Dont quit the day job ! 

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On 4/10/2017 at 1:49 AM, quiXilver said:

There are kabbalistic influences in the Tarot, but it is not an exclusive, ownership of the Torah.  For there are Druidic, Pagan and Shamanic influences as well.

Yes.   There are 'Hermetic kabbalah'  associations and correspondances  with the Tarot that was first played with by DeGeblin, Ettellia and latter Eliphas Levi, then the Golden Dawn deck, after that the idea spread into some other decks .

As you say, there were a lot of other influences that came into the deck and influenced the creations of decks , some of the early cards can be associated with events of the times , the 'virtues', 'humors'  etc . 

IN the Thoth deck Crowley added much more, included also in the written associated material ;   Buddhist Hindu and Daoist concepts, quiet a compendium in that one . 

On 4/10/2017 at 1:49 AM, quiXilver said:

As with all things of a metaphysical nature, there is no ownership, only pairings, partnership and connection through the web of universal life.

Great way to put it !   :) 

On 4/10/2017 at 1:49 AM, quiXilver said:

Jung understood this and tried to explain it with western scientific filters and mindset to some success.

Liz Greene's  mythic tarot is pretty good, in that area,  Jungian psychology, myth, astrology and tarot . 

 

 

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On 4/10/2017 at 3:17 PM, back to earth said:

Yes.   There are 'Hermetic kabbalah'  associations and correspondances  with the Tarot that was first played with by DeGeblin, Ettellia and latter Eliphas Levi, then the Golden Dawn deck, after that the idea spread into some other decks .

As you say, there were a lot of other influences that came into the deck and influenced the creations of decks , some of the early cards can be associated with events of the times , the 'virtues', 'humors'  etc . 

IN the Thoth deck Crowley added much more, included also in the written associated material ;   Buddhist Hindu and Daoist concepts, quiet a compendium in that one . 

Great way to put it !   :) 

Liz Greene's  mythic tarot is pretty good, in that area,  Jungian psychology, myth, astrology and tarot . 

 

 

BTE you should start a tarot thread, you really seem to be versed in the subject. 

Can you say more about the virtues, humors, etc.

What are your thoughts on Norbert Loches'cosmic tarot? 

 

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Posted (edited)

On 4/7/2017 at 10:22 PM, back to earth said:

it is spelling YHVH .   And that is an elemental formula ... not Jehovah .

How many people would type / SAY that ? you're so surprising sometimes.   Its a good thing you don't run some open your eyes clubs or have feely good books out or church like clubs going because what would you do with all the leer jets?

No reply necessary I'm out for a while now... too much to do and always late and never gettiing things finished lately but I will now that I'm shutting the computers off up here HA! LATERZZZZZ

Edited by MWoo7
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1 minute ago, MWoo7 said:

How many people would type / SAY that ? you're so surprising sometimes.   Its a good thing you don't run some open your eyes clubs or have feely good books out or church like clubs going because what would you do with all the leer jets?

I find this "Jehovah" vs. "Yahweh" business interesting.  The word "Jehovah" as I understand it appears four times in the King James English translation of the Old Testament.  Otherwise, for the several thousand other times the Tetragrammaton appears, it is rendered in ALL CAPS as LORD or GOD.  That way it can be distinguished from the places where the Hebrew uses "Lord" and "God," and whatever.   

"Jehovah," itself, is of course the four consonants with the vowel markings of the Greek "Adonai" (or something like that) meaning "Lord." The original vowels are lost to history but probably close to those of "Yahweh" as scholars have reconstructed (I know nothing about how they went about this).

Now keep in mind every proper noun in the Bible and anywhere else has been Anglicized for translation purposes.  "Jesus" was something more akin to "Jehoshua" and so on.  In my opinion the word "Jehovah" is the Anglicized form of the Tetragrammaton, and the scholarly insistence on "Yahweh" could just as easily be wrong -- but that should be beside the point.  There is some hostility to a certain unpopular Christian group going on here -- not scholarship.

Odd thing for Christians here to explain -- what happened to this name of God in the New Testament?  One reads it and finds no hint that the word ever existed.  One does find references to the "name" of God, but what that name might be seems unknown and unconsidered.

My view is that early Christianity was not a Palestinian affair (where the Hebrew texts were used) but instead a Greek mystery religion separate from the synagogue (and rejected by it), using the Greek version known ans the Septuagint (LXX) where the "name" of God is consistently rendered "Adonai." In other words, the authors of the New Testament never knew the Tetrammaton even existed.  Otherwise it is almost impossible to wonder why the issue never even comes up (whether the ban on its pronunciation is valid or not).

Of course this contradicts much of the NT narrative -- but one must remember that that narrative is mythical, written a couple generations or more after the events they are supposed to be about.

What have I, a Buddhist living in Asia, to do with all this. Well I spent a good part of my life researching and teaching American culture, and that includes American religious movements.  I think Christianity is based on a bunch of myths (but then I think pretty much the same thing about the origins of Buddhism -- it has nothing to do with spiritual validity).

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I noticed a comment above that the Buddha was a Hindu.

This is touchy.  There are several religious traditions still around today that trace their origins to the time of the "Aryan" incursions into North India a couple thousand and more years ago (it was a slow process more of absorption than conquest, although sometimes violence was involved).

The Indo-Europeans ("Aryans") practiced a religion much like the Greek or Norse religions of human-like (anthropomorphic) deities of both sexes, tending to have particular mythic and cult structures and assigned certain specialties (i.e., Poseidon over the sea).  We see the descendant of that in modern Hinduism, merged with pre-Aryan ideas of rebirth and karma and some traces of animism.

The other religions from the area rejected the new gods and tended to be either agnostic or even outright atheist (one guesses but has no evidence that this might have been the pre-Aryan belief, but not atheist in the Western materialist sense but still believing in rebirth and karma, but rejecting the incoming deities.

Hinduism didn't really exist in its modern form for over a thousand years after the Buddha's life -- then the prevailing teachings of rebirth and karma were accepted into the Buddhist formula for life, distinctly different from anything we identify as Hindu, but sharing these pre-Aryan ideas.

This is a controversial subject and I have just barely touched the surface.  I would like to avoid inserting mystical ideas and stick to history.

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1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

BTE you should start a tarot thread, you really seem to be versed in the subject. 

Nah .    Thats the one part of the Bible I do follow   :D       (Matt 7:6 )   

However if you wanted to start such a thread I would gladly contribute . 

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Can you say more about the virtues, humors, etc.

Its old pre-scientific   western  'medicine'  - one's 'predisposition'   here is a classic artwork depicting one  (like many concepts, the humors passed into tarot ) . Are you familiar with Albrecht Durer's engraving 'Melencolia' .  Its not a tarot card but in it we can see a similar process with the central motif being explained in many ways ; the central figure, but also all the surrounding symbolism. 

The old card  'Le Papess' - the female pope , is an interesting one - like the whole story of the female Pope, and supposedly, until recently , the origin of the ' feely chair ' .    ( Still ,  it  doesn't mean a woman couldn't sneak in with two plums in a sock down there   :D  ) 

The Four Humors are based on the old elemental arrangements ; their opposites and their extensions in duality  ( that old formula again ;) ) 

43403507-Colored-Classical-four-elements

Chinese medicine has some similar concepts.

This seems a good summary; 

https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Four-Humors

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I think what you present is Aristotle; other Greek (the pre-Socratics) had all sorts of various schemes, but Aristotle's authority was so great it came to be dogma in the Middle Ages.

The Chinese also have "metal."  

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8 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Nah .    Thats the one part of the Bible I do follow   :D       (Matt 7:6 )   

However if you wanted to start such a thread I would gladly contribute . 

Its old pre-scientific   western  'medicine'  - one's 'predisposition'   here is a classic artwork depicting one  (like many concepts, the humors passed into tarot ) . Are you familiar with Albrecht Durer's engraving 'Melencolia' .  Its not a tarot card but in it we can see a similar process with the central motif being explained in many ways ; the central figure, but also all the surrounding symbolism. 

The old card  'Le Papess' - the female pope , is an interesting one - like the whole story of the female Pope, and supposedly, until recently , the origin of the ' feely chair ' .    ( Still ,  it  doesn't mean a woman couldn't sneak in with two plums in a sock down there   :D  ) 

The Four Humors are based on the old elemental arrangements ; their opposites and their extensions in duality  ( that old formula again ;) ) 

43403507-Colored-Classical-four-elements

Chinese medicine has some similar concepts.

This seems a good summary; 

https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Four-Humors

Thank you interesting stuff. 

I do have a question for you, what is Kabbalah? 

 

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1 hour ago, MWoo7 said:

How many people would type / SAY that ?

A lot ; many esotericists , most hermetic kabbalists, mystical Freemasons  , people in the western magical tradition ......    maybe even some  Jews.  

1 hour ago, MWoo7 said:

you're so surprising sometimes. 

Depends what you are used to .

1 hour ago, MWoo7 said:

  Its a good thing you don't run some open your eyes clubs or have feely good books out or church like clubs going because what would you do with all the leer jets?

No one would buy them. I  am not trashy or popular enough, not showy enough ... peeps want all that nowadays.

However, I do know what to do with a lear jet ;

Aboriginal friends live on a 'mission' up north, the neighbouring property is a zillionaire.  He wanted to re do the fence between them, he bought the materials and said he pay the boys to do the labor. At the end he said 'Good job, come around for dinner. ' he must have wanted to show off the mansion. Friend says they all sitting around huge table and all these different menus get passed around ; "What do you want ; Indian, Chinese, Indonesian ?"   They order from restaurant menus, the 'servant' takes it all down, and rings the order through to the GOld Coast. he rings a taxi to pick it up and deliver to the airport and the lear jet flies up there (from out the back of Woop-woop ) picks up the take away food and flies back ... and they had take away Chinese for dinner . 

BTE works a bit different , no money , no Lear jets  ( but I can cook Chinese, Italian, Persian, Indo, Greek   ....  and   my place got a view of a waterfall !    :P   (That was to the zillionaire, not you Wooz ) 

1 hour ago, MWoo7 said:

No reply necessary I'm out for a while now... too much to do and always late and never gettiing things finished lately but I will now that I'm shutting the computers off up here HA! LATERZZZZZ

Dont believe you .... you always say that .     Just give hubby a can of baked beans for dinner and tell him you too busy talking to guys on the internet .     

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Oh yeah Wooz ... I can also add Frank now , to people who would say stuff like that   :)

...  he knows    ' what I talkin'  'bout !  '

 

 

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here's the Chinese wheel of the elements

chinese water organ wheel.jpg

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56 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

I find this "Jehovah" vs. "Yahweh" business interesting.  The word "Jehovah" as I understand it appears four times in the King James English translation of the Old Testament.  Otherwise, for the several thousand other times the Tetragrammaton appears, it is rendered in ALL CAPS as LORD or GOD.  That way it can be distinguished from the places where the Hebrew uses "Lord" and "God," and whatever.

Also '  ' Elyon' .... 'The Gods'  (note plural ) Adonai ( sorta - Lord )   Ehiah   ( I am ) El Shaddai ,   etc .  Lots of 'titles'  each one explains a function or specific relationship. In esoteric Kabbalah they can be placed on the Tree of Life to get an idea of their interrelationships ; 

There is also this ;

f2db18b1150f3e63d5e350e321a7698a.jpg

 

56 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

  

"Jehovah," itself, is of course the four consonants with the vowel markings of the Greek "Adonai" (or something like that) meaning "Lord." The original vowels are lost to history but probably close to those of "Yahweh" as scholars have reconstructed (I know nothing about how they went about this).

Now keep in mind every proper noun in the Bible and anywhere else has been Anglicized for translation purposes.  "Jesus" was something more akin to "Jehoshua" and so on.

Also it is  the YHVH   with a shin -letter of fire-  added -, showing the 'Son '  and flame spirit descending 'amidst the wings of Jehovah' ;  YH Sh VH - Yeheshewah / Jehoshua  .

56 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

 

 In my opinion the word "Jehovah" is the Anglicized form of the Tetragrammaton, and the scholarly insistence on "Yahweh" could just as easily be wrong -- but that should be beside the point.  There is some hostility to a certain unpopular Christian group going on here -- not scholarship.

Odd thing for Christians here to explain -- what happened to this name of God in the New Testament?  One reads it and finds no hint that the word ever existed.  One does find references to the "name" of God, but what that name might be seems unknown and unconsidered.

All these concepts and a LOT more got dumbed down to 'God'  also the concepts of spirit / soul got dumbed down . As you may realise ; christianity is a LOOOOOOOOONG way behind Buddhism , Vedanta, Zoroastrianism ... etc   regarding 'anatomy of the psyche',  the   structure and understanding of the mind and cosmology. 

56 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

My view is that early Christianity was not a Palestinian affair (where the Hebrew texts were used) but instead a Greek mystery religion separate from the synagogue (and rejected by it), using the Greek version known ans the Septuagint (LXX) where the "name" of God is consistently rendered "Adonai." In other words, the authors of the New Testament never knew the Tetrammaton even existed.  Otherwise it is almost impossible to wonder why the issue never even comes up (whether the ban on its pronunciation is valid or not).

Of course this contradicts much of the NT narrative -- but one must remember that that narrative is mythical, written a couple generations or more after the events they are supposed to be about.

What have I, a Buddhist living in Asia, to do with all this. Well I spent a good part of my life researching and teaching American culture, and that includes American religious movements.  I think Christianity is based on a bunch of myths (but then I think pretty much the same thing about the origins of Buddhism -- it has nothing to do with spiritual validity).

Interesting Frank !   At least I can see that a LOT of myth was inserted into it .

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52 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

I noticed a comment above that the Buddha was a Hindu.

Tricky ! Since 'Hinduism or Hindus'  didnt exist until way after Buddha . 

52 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

This is touchy.  There are several religious traditions still around today that trace their origins to the time of the "Aryan" incursions into North India a couple thousand and more years ago (it was a slow process more of absorption than conquest, although sometimes violence was involved).

Bing !  One of my areas of speciality :)  .    It seems that there was too and fro way before any mass movement of Indo Iranians ( the now better accepted term than Indo Europeans ) into the Indus Valley. There is evidence of an 'Indus  Civilization' trading centre in the Oxus basin  ( 'Aryan area' )  . There was a language mix earlier as well.  Also the Indus people ( pre Ayan settlement ) probably had sea trade along the North Arabian sea shore, up the gulf and into Mesopotamia . 

52 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

The Indo-Europeans ("Aryans") practiced a religion much like the Greek or Norse religions of human-like (anthropomorphic) deities of both sexes, tending to have particular mythic and cult structures and assigned certain specialties (i.e., Poseidon over the sea).  We see the descendant of that in modern Hinduism, merged with pre-Aryan ideas of rebirth and karma and some traces of animism.

I see what you mean , in a way. Although it is  much bigger story than that .  There are very interesting   VERY early connections with pre-Greeks  and early Indo-Iranian Aryans , maybe going back to a time of separation when they were further to the North ( southern Russian Steppes and to the east ) ?  certainly before the great Indo Iranian separation brought about by the 'Great War of Religion'. 

The early religion  seems certainly Vedic ... or preVedic with Zoroastrianism  a later incursion and separation of originally a political nature ( as understood by its original name in the original language ) .   Yet even 'monotheistic' Zoroastrianism  has its 'Yazata' and 'manifestations' . Originally it appears to have been a form of henoism.

52 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

The other religions from the area rejected the new gods and tended to be either agnostic or even outright atheist (one guesses but has no evidence that this might have been the pre-Aryan belief, but not atheist in the Western materialist sense but still believing in rebirth and karma, but rejecting the incoming deities.

I lost you, what 'other religions' and from what 'area'  ?

Do you mean the Indus valley pre Aryan civilisation ? Or those further to the east in India ?

52 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Hinduism didn't really exist in its modern form for over a thousand years after the Buddha's life -- then the prevailing teachings of rebirth and karma were accepted into the Buddhist formula for life, distinctly different from anything we identify as Hindu, but sharing these pre-Aryan ideas.

many say Hinduism was an invention of the occupying British .   A bit like people thinking there is an Australian Aboriginal religion , no, originally there were probably 600 different ones some with subtle variations and cross overs m others entirely different .

52 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

This is a controversial subject and I have just barely touched the surface.  I would like to avoid inserting mystical ideas and stick to history.

Great idea !    Dont know how it fits into tarot though  ( not that the mere topic of a thread usually restricst us   :)   

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34 minutes ago, quiXilver said:

here's the Chinese wheel of the elements

chinese water organ wheel.jpg

 

Yes, that is similar the idea of the humours and their effect on the body .

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eeeeh have to get back to this, kind of busy.:rofl:

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Posted (edited)

Thanks BTE and others,  I'll have to get back later after reading, interesting inDEEEEED !

 

oh off topic a trace but thought important AGAIN !!!!! the tyson chicken dinners kid and others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, just happen to forget when talking about visiting here or doing this that like its next door, cripes ,!! idiots...... thought to mention (the vast expanse out there, mind boggling)  ONE OF MANY EXAMPLES they NEVER MENTION, JACK0s.

 

THEY(bad as MSN) NEVER MENTION VASTNESS, like not in a million years could we EVER ! come up with something to travel out there, some!!!! how!!! \mindboggle\ they forget to mention that little detail. JACKS! of the finest Ph.D. degrees.  Always went over will in college. YEY! 

fun-facts-010-06242013.jpg

Edited by MWoo7
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