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Jor-el

Immorality... Crossing the line.

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7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Yeah, this makes me want to bash the skulls in of anyone working on Saturday. Maybe I should start 'stoning' hookers with bullets? God's will and all.:rolleyes:

Well better yet don't work on Saturdays and don't frequent hookers. They only have a job because there is a demand for their services. 

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Posted (edited)

Mods, you can delete this post.

Edited by WoIverine

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Posted (edited)

19 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Yeah, this makes me want to bash the skulls in of anyone working on Saturday. Maybe I should start 'stoning' hookers with bullets? God's will and all.:rolleyes:

Weekend needs to be three days, Saturday just isn't enough down time.

Edited by WoIverine
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17 minutes ago, Jor-el said:

Well better yet don't work on Saturdays and don't frequent hookers. They only have a job because there is a demand for their services. 

I really wonder who are you to judge anyone based on some book written by a bunch of bronze age idiots.

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56 minutes ago, WoIverine said:

Weekend needs to be three days, Saturday just isn't enough down time.

Saturday Sunday and Monday thus avoiding the Monday blues...

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48 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I really wonder who are you to judge anyone based on some book written by a bunch of bronze age idiots.

Not judging, just advising... If you feel the need to stone somebody then the example should first be yours....

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I really wonder who are you to judge anyone based on some book written by a bunch of bronze age idiots.

Indeed.

"Let  he who is without sin cast the first stone"

and  

"judge not, lest ye be judged "

 Clearly idiots :) 

Oh and the old testament was almost all written in the iron age not the bronze age, while the NT was ALL written  after the iron age.  But "iron age idiots"  is no where near as effective, is it? :) 

Just goes to show that even an intellect like Dawkins can get his chronologies wrong if it suits his purpose.( In his book, "The greatest show on earth"  he called the writers of the OT,   " bronze age desert tribesmen")

It is  true that IF moses wrote genesis it falls into the late bronze age, but almost all the OT was written in the iron age.  

Edited by Mr Walker
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16 hours ago, XenoFish said:
17 hours ago, WoIverine said:

Yeah, it just reminded me of this verse:

"They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents."

Romans 1:30

Yeah, this makes me want to bash the skulls in of anyone working on Saturday. Maybe I should start 'stoning' hookers with bullets? God's will and all.:rolleyes:

Eeep! I'm in trouble. :cry: 

I mean, heck, I work in retail. Weekends are just expected to work. I wonder how the 10 commandments help out there? (Maybe, it's a good thing I didn't grow up with them in my family. ;) )

16 hours ago, Jor-el said:

Well better yet don't work on Saturdays and don't frequent hookers. They only have a job because there is a demand for their services. 

Well, I work on Saturdays, and on Sundays, and I have come long ago to expect that. It comes with the territory. It's rare, I find, to see someone make a fuss about it. 

And seriously, I feel that the reasons hookers are in demand, is because of the ridiculous double standard that I still see in existence today. If we only have a grounded and mature outlook of relationships with each other, including the physical,(no need for looking towards an outdated mode of 'instructions' :rolleyes:  maybe we wouldn't have those who pay them to ..................  you know. ;)  We are all too uptight. :no:

16 hours ago, WoIverine said:
16 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Yeah, this makes me want to bash the skulls in of anyone working on Saturday. Maybe I should start 'stoning' hookers with bullets? God's will and all.:rolleyes:

Weekend needs to be three days, Saturday just isn't enough down time.

:hmm: I wonder if there should be a poll to all the businesses to fill out, higher and lower employees. 

16 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I really wonder who are you to judge anyone based on some book written by a bunch of bronze age idiots.

Isn't there something about the sin of 'judging' others? 

It makes wonder, (if I hadn't mentioned it before) about how one who grew up secular, sees all this. Me for instance, who has no comprehension of the deep down aspects of the term 'immorality' except it's how one behaves according to a religious viewpoint. Growing up secular, it almost seems if you aint acting 'goody two shows' you were considered immoral. I'm like, :huh: then. It almost seems like various 'rules' within religion tells you rules, without given reason why, but that someone will punish you for it. How can one understand why the rules, when you are told, just don't do it. (must note, I have seen so many books and others, on message boards go on extended 'reasons' for it, that they need analogies that really don't make sense to the reason, to show why. *shrugs* :rolleyes: 

Quote

Podo: The only moral anyone really needs is "don't be a dick." Everything else? Extra.

I mean, this makes sense to me. If you act towards someone, and it makes them look unhappy, well then you're being a dick. If you get a happy and appreciative behaviors, then, you're not a dick. 

I feel, in various religious house holds, it's taught to their children, 'you need to share, because it's what it's told' to various other house holds, like mine, 'you need to share, because you would that if it's the other way around'. And I feel, it's not something that has to be pushed from various 'no holds bar' and 'because it is' point of views and environments, or it's something that was put in us for all of us to react to willie nillie. It's just common sense. You know, we all have the awareness or the availability to see how others react to our reactions. 

 

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Posted (edited)

 

news-696x394.png

I love this news item, it so belongs here!!!

U.S.—Sources from within the United States confirmed Tuesday that American society, while typically rejecting concepts like absolute truth and objective moral standards, is suddenly showing grave concern for the rise of fabricated news stories after a reported uptick in fake news during the recent election season and President Trump’s habit of using the term to describe many mainstream media outlets.

See: http://babylonbee.com/news/culture-truth-relative-suddenly-concerned-fake-news/

As the saying goes... What goes around, comes around.

Edited by Jor-el

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It just seems to me that morality is too subjective to matter. Absolute morals just don't exist, so any argument from morality is inherently worthless.

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8 minutes ago, Podo said:

It just seems to me that morality is too subjective to matter. Absolute morals just don't exist, so any argument from morality is inherently worthless.

And the result you get is above in the news article I posted.

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On 2017-5-24 at 5:12 AM, Podo said:

It just seems to me that morality is too subjective to matter. Absolute morals just don't exist, so any argument from morality is inherently worthless.

There are 3 levels of morality and all have relevance.  One can argue from, and act on, a personal level of morality eg choose never to steal or cheat another.  This is honest and logical and will work for an individual  Thus one will act in accord with what is right by one's own beliefs. and have a coherent consistent and logical set of values and behaviours so others can know and trust you to behave predictably. 

 Second there are social norms of morality Anyone who acts outside those norms faces opposition and even exclusion from  a society  In the west if you marry or have sex with someone under the age of about 16 you will break a social morality and also laws..

  Again members of a society expect those within the society to act consistently, coherently, and predictably, to maintain order .  

Lastly,  there are morals which most modern humans think should apply to all, eg that no human should be kept as a  slave and that killing another human without a valid  reason,  or good cause, is wrong  

Thus arguing from  morality is powerful on all those levels , because everyone is an individual, we all live in a society, and we are all accountable as human beings. 

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7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

There are 3 levels of morality and all have relevance.  One can argue from, and act on, a personal level of morality eg choose never to steal or cheat another.  This is honest and logical and will work for an individual  Thus one will act in accord with what is right by one's own beliefs. and have a coherent consistent and logical set of values and behaviours so others can know and trust you to behave predictably. 

 Second there are social norms of morality Anyone who acts outside those norms faces opposition and even exclusion from  a society  In the west if you marry or have sex with someone under the age of about 16 you will break a social morality and also laws..

  Again members of a society expect those within the society to act consistently, coherently, and predictably, to maintain order .  

Lastly,  there are morals which most modern humans think should apply to all, eg that no human should be kept as a  slave and that killing another human without a valid  reason,  or good cause, is wrong  

Thus arguing from  morality is powerful on all those levels , because everyone is an individual, we all live in a society, and we are all accountable as human beings. 

Hmm, I like it. That was actually insightful.

It just doesn't bode well for those who do not like to conform to social norms, which is essentially the reason those norms are actually changing at a heightened pace at this time.

Actually I would even suggest that there is a concerted propaganda campaign to do just that.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Jor-el said:

Hmm, I like it. That was actually insightful.

It just doesn't bode well for those who do not like to conform to social norms, which is essentially the reason those norms are actually changing at a heightened pace at this time.

Actually I would even suggest that there is a concerted propaganda campaign to do just that.

 Social norms are breaking down largely because the institutions which  once constructed  a universal set of values and beliefs are also breaking down, and losing power and influence  Eg the extended family  the authority of schools, church and even police.   One might argue that the internet and the millions of memes available online contribute, but it was happening long before the internet.  Another factor is the growing  domination     of individualism over community, and freedom over duty.

If you don't shape young people to have self  discipline and ethics, you end up with a lord of the flies scenario. if you do then you get more of a coral island one  

One contains individuals who are not able to control their desires  and tend to selfishness and competition for survival .  The latter contains individuals who have been taught  ethics but more importantly,  have been taught the discipline of mind and body to maintain control of themselves This type tends to create  n ordered hierarchical society based on cooperative endeavour to survive.  The former creates an anarchistic and disordered one, where individaul power/strength  is important for survival and the weak and vulnerable are a t risk. .  These movements are cyclical and unless repression becomes too great and revolution occurs we will move back to a more disciplined structured and authoritarian society where individual freedoms are less but community stability and safety is greater and  where social moralities are given greater weight than individual ones. .

One can defy social norms if one feels the y are unethical, but this always comes at some cost.  eg as a non drinker in australian society i am not actually physically excluded but this makes many peole uncomfortable and so i tend to  be less sociable than some and don't go to pubs clubs or sporting venues where people tend to get drunk.  (but then there a re many people especially, older ones where alcohol is les important and i fit in there.   its the ones in their thirties or so who tell me the y haven't gone a day without alcohol for twenty years or so that really worry me. 

 

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 Social norms are breaking down largely because the institutions which  once constructed  a universal set of values and beliefs are also breaking down, and losing power and influence  Eg the extended family  the authority of schools, church and even police.   One might argue that the internet and the millions of memes available online contribute, but it was happening long before the internet.  Another factor is the growing  domination     of individualism over community, and freedom over duty.

If you don't shape young people to have self  discipline and ethics, you end up with a lord of the flies scenario. if you do then you get more of a coral island one  

One contains individuals who are not able to control their desires  and tend to selfishness and competition for survival .  The latter contains individuals who have been taught  ethics but more importantly,  have been taught the discipline of mind and body to maintain control of themselves This type tends to create  n ordered hierarchical society based on cooperative endeavour to survive.  The former creates an anarchistic and disordered one, where individaul power/strength  is important for survival and the weak and vulnerable are a t risk. .  These movements are cyclical and unless repression becomes too great and revolution occurs we will move back to a more disciplined structured and authoritarian society where individual freedoms are less but community stability and safety is greater and  where social moralities are given greater weight than individual ones. .

One can defy social norms if one feels the y are unethical, but this always comes at some cost.  eg as a non drinker in australian society i am not actually physically excluded but this makes many peole uncomfortable and so i tend to  be less sociable than some and don't go to pubs clubs or sporting venues where people tend to get drunk.  (but then there a re many people especially, older ones where alcohol is les important and i fit in there.   its the ones in their thirties or so who tell me the y haven't gone a day without alcohol for twenty years or so that really worry me. 

The swinging of the social pendulum but always brought back to swing to the opposite side.

Yeah I can see that.

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14 hours ago, Jor-el said:

The swinging of the social pendulum but always brought back to swing to the opposite side.

Yeah I can see that.

It is an intrinsic part of revolutionary theory, but also a part of human nature that, when aspirations and reality separate too greatly, we push back and try to change our reality/circumstances, rather  than adjust our hopes and aspirations. 

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