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Could a lottery help fund the search for ET ?

30 posts in this topic

If I remember correctly, individuals such as Stephen Hawking and Lucianne Walkowicz, had warned of risk to include in any alien contact?

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There doesn't seem to be much risk in merely detecting the presence of extraterrestrial civilizations, which is what the linked article seems to be talking about.
If our galaxy is filled with malevolent life forms, ready and able to come here take over the planet, one wonders why Earth has apparently been left alone for several billion years.

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I think this is a great idea.   Depending on the initial pay in, I would purchase several.   It would be a pretty neat gift to give to family members.  I always give my nieces and nephews a $2 bill, a $1 coin and a ¢.50 piece.

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33 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think this is a great idea.   Depending on the initial pay in, I would purchase several.   It would be a pretty neat gift to give to family members.  I always give my nieces and nephews a $2 bill, a $1 coin and a ¢.50 piece.

I always withdraw cash from the bank in these denominations to mess with the tellers. Then I use them to shop. This confuses the cashiers and frustrates everyone in line behind me.

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8 minutes ago, The Russian Hare said:

I always withdraw cash from the bank in these denominations to mess with the tellers. Then I use them to shop. This confuses the cashiers and frustrates everyone in line behind me.

Young folks in drive thru's think it is counterfeit.   :P

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On Monday, April 10, 2017 at 0:28 AM, gatekeeper32 said:

If I remember correctly, individuals such as Stephen Hawking and Lucianne Walkowicz, had warned of risk to include in any alien contact?

And... IIRC, Neil de Grasse Tyson doesn't accept that argument?

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On 4/10/2017 at 11:36 AM, Myles said:

Young folks in drive thru's think it is counterfeit.   :P

Somehow I think the only thing in the drive-thrus that is counterfeit is the food (that is, in fast food places, don't think banks offer food just yet).....

Cheers,
Badeskov

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4 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

And... IIRC, Neil de Grasse Tyson doesn't accept that argument?

Neither does Dr. Seth Shosak, of the SETI Institute.

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On 9/4/2017 at 4:28 PM, gatekeeper32 said:

If I remember correctly, individuals such as Stephen Hawking and Lucianne Walkowicz, had warned of risk to include in any alien contact?

 

12 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

And... IIRC, Neil de Grasse Tyson doesn't accept that argument?

 

7 hours ago, bison said:

Neither does Dr. Seth Shosak, of the SETI Institute.

Noteverythingisaconspiracy doesn't accept that argument either.....  :innocent:

Listening for signals is an interely passive operation, so there is no chance of anyone detecting us anyway.  

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10 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Listening for signals is an interely passive operation, so there is no chance of anyone detecting us anyway.  

True, but if we picked up a genuine signal, could we resist sending a reply?

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1 hour ago, Derek Willis said:

True, but if we picked up a genuine signal, could we resist sending a reply?

Probably not.

In my opinion the potential rewards exceed to potential danger.

On a related note, have anyone got any experience with SETI@home ? https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/

I have thought about joining up, but haven't quite gotten around to it. 

 

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13 minutes ago, NYCEddie said:

Why? It would be a big waste of time and money.

SETI is privately funded so am not sure why you care if it is a waste of time and money ?

13 minutes ago, NYCEddie said:

No one is qualified to head such a project.

I would like to hear your reasoning behind that statement ?

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On Monday, April 10, 2017 at 0:02 PM, bison said:

There doesn't seem to be much risk in merely detecting the presence of extraterrestrial civilizations, which is what the linked article seems to be talking about.
If our galaxy is filled with malevolent life forms, ready and able to come here take over the planet, one wonders why Earth has apparently been left alone for several billion years.

Would not worry about benevolent life forms with malevolent designs from outer space as we have our own personalities to concern ourselves with.  

Much less our own internal planetary problems of the same sort.

 

Misfits sing I turned into a martian and Astrozombies which cover this topic well.

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On 4/14/2017 at 8:13 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

SETI is privately funded so am not sure why you care if it is a waste of time and money ?

I would like to hear your reasoning behind that statement ?

My reasoning is that no earthling has an inkling of what constitutes "alien life". I would bet that the reasoning behind such a move centers around "alien" beings sharing human traits that we can recognize but so far we have no irrefutable evidence to support such a mindset. I have read thousands of alleged alien interactions and abductions but none of them can be taken to the bank. Such a project would probably be manned by believers who would inject their personal biases.

Until we have a public demonstration of a craft landing before a sizable audience and the occupants of such a craft making themselves approachable, we're going to have to wait with useless projects such as SETI which hasn't produced any positive results since its founding in 1984 (and NASA considered it in 1971). They're so ignorant in not realizing that to detect any alien signals the whole planet has to be a receiver and not isolated locations here and there. Similar to looking through a telescope which produces a restricted view.

If you accept (NOT believe) that contrary to popular belief, and their Form 990, no government funds are allocated for its SETI searches these are financed entirely by private contributions then I have a bridge to sell you. We are all familiar with the word "surreptitious". It is to the benefit of Uncle Sam to finance such organizations, under the table. I don't have any evidence, just gut feelings, having been informed, publicly, of the many "black projects" that are financed.

 

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23 minutes ago, NYCEddie said:

My reasoning is that no earthling has an inkling of what constitutes "alien life". I would bet that the reasoning behind such a move centers around "alien" beings sharing human traits that we can recognize but so far we have no irrefutable evidence to support such a mindset. I have read thousands of alleged alien interactions and abductions but none of them can be taken to the bank. Such a project would probably be manned by believers who would inject their personal biases.

I agree with that we have no idea what alien life looks like, for now we have a data-set of one (us) and that is really what we have to base our search on. 

23 minutes ago, NYCEddie said:

Until we have a public demonstration of a craft landing before a sizable audience and the occupants of such a craft making themselves approachable, we're going to have to wait with useless projects such as SETI which hasn't produced any positive results since its founding in 1984 (and NASA considered it in 1971). They're so ignorant in not realizing that to detect any alien signals the whole planet has to be a receiver and not isolated locations here and there. Similar to looking through a telescope which produces a restricted view.

I strongly disagree here. First of all, I do not find SETI useless. Failure in science is just as valuable as success. And right now the initiatives such as SETI is all we have to look for advanced civilizations out there. We have to start somewhere. And SETI can only do so much.

23 minutes ago, NYCEddie said:

If you accept (NOT believe) that contrary to popular belief, and their Form 990, no government funds are allocated for its SETI searches these are financed entirely by private contributions then I have a bridge to sell you. We are all familiar with the word "surreptitious". It is to the benefit of Uncle Sam to finance such organizations, under the table. I don't have any evidence, just gut feelings, having been informed, publicly, of the many "black projects" that are financed.

Why would the Government not disclose if they were funding SETI? Of course they would. The benefits to reap if SETI actually found something would be immeasurable. They would have absolutely no need to hide such.

Cheers,
Badeskov 

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37 minutes ago, NYCEddie said:

My reasoning is that no earthling has an inkling of what constitutes "alien life". I would bet that the reasoning behind such a move centers around "alien" beings sharing human traits that we can recognize but so far we have no irrefutable evidence to support such a mindset. I have read thousands of alleged alien interactions and abductions but none of them can be taken to the bank. Such a project would probably be manned by believers who would inject their personal biases.

Until we have a public demonstration of a craft landing before a sizable audience and the occupants of such a craft making themselves approachable, we're going to have to wait with useless projects such as SETI which hasn't produced any positive results since its founding in 1984 (and NASA considered it in 1971). They're so ignorant in not realizing that to detect any alien signals the whole planet has to be a receiver and not isolated locations here and there. Similar to looking through a telescope which produces a restricted view.

If you accept (NOT believe) that contrary to popular belief, and their Form 990, no government funds are allocated for its SETI searches these are financed entirely by private contributions then I have a bridge to sell you. We are all familiar with the word "surreptitious". It is to the benefit of Uncle Sam to finance such organizations, under the table. I don't have any evidence, just gut feelings, having been informed, publicly, of the many "black projects" that are financed.

 

Why are you so angry with SETI ?

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Hello.

 

@ Gatekeeper32


Hmmm, are Hawking, Walkowicz etc. so "stupid" or only naive or unknowing, that they believe, aliens do not know the earth.


1.
Incidents like Westall 1966 (very good case, 200+ whitness, premium conditions...), Belgium 1989, Phoenix(-Lights) 1997... are an axiom for ETI activities at/on earth.

2.
Every civilisation in the Galaxy will research the whole galaxy in a few hunred or thousend years after his Industrial Revolution by Telescopes.
Also planets without the transit method.
Big arrays of space telescopes, thousands or millions... of telescopes.
And perhaps also a telescope in the focus of a sun. "The Focal Mission".

They will definitely find the earth in a short time.
Why not say "hello"? Why should they?
They want to observe the earth and mankind. A perfect place is the backside of the moon. Also with big telescopes, you can see only the front side.
And the NASA is bound by instructions from DoD. See the founding law of NASA.

Aliens would wait for the right time.
Could make "shows" like Phonix 1997 or Belgium 1989 to test the reactions (in media etc.).
Aliens will not arrive without knowledge and language skills.
Every intelligence service is watching other states, also aliens would listened to radio traffic for tens of years...

Possibilities to prove the existence of alien activities are:
* A private mission to the moon, without influence of the (US) government, NASA and DoD.
Space X could do this.
If necessary, from a place in other country with a different company.
Because, every US space company must ask for OK the government for every space mission.

A probe in a low orbit with high end cameras. Like a spy satellite for photos of the moon surface, to find potential buildings etc..
Live sent unencrypted to earth.


* "pSETI", Planetary SETI.
Searching for Extratrerrestrial Activities on planets, moons etc. in the solar system.
Also on the earth.
For example, in the lake erie and lake Baikal. Two very interesting places. 


* A network of ususal consumer telescopes around the world, that monitor 24/7 the moon and its surrounding orbit for unusual activities with movement detection.
"Unusual" are "dots" etc., that move not only in a ballistic/newtonian kind.
Change of direction, speed, appearing an a side of the moon, without vanishing before on the other side (start of a flying object of the surface) etc..

Any point that moves against the Newton rules is intelligently controlled.
Then only aliens, or spaceships of the USA remain.
Both would be extreme (US space ships = "Solar Warden").

* A network of cheap private purchased sensor stations.
Raspberry PI with XLoBorg board (Compass and G-Sensor = Magnetometer and Gravimeter).
Connected to a central server. With a website that displays in real time anomalies with position (more stations, more accuracy), direction, speed etc.. Like "Flightradar24".
Only needed: Programmers that code a linux distribution (from a existing free linux for RaspBerry PI).
Put together, software on SD card, start, finished.
Only enter the geo-position in the web interface.

Every gravity anomaly would be a proof of a exotic electrogravitative propulsion.
What else? There are no natural fluctuations.


This lottery money could be used for a moon probe and/or submarine mission(s) in this lakes. And perhaps for programming this RasPI distri and the operation af the server.
Also Servers for a telescope network.

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59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

Hello.

 

@ Gatekeeper32


Hmmm, are Hawking, Walkowicz etc. so "stupid" or only naive or unknowing, that they believe, aliens do not know the earth.

I guess you are smarter than they are ?

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:


1.
Incidents like Westall 1966 (very good case, 200+ whitness, premium conditions...), Belgium 1989, Phoenix(-Lights) 1997... are an axiom for ETI activities at/on earth.

None of those have been conclusively proved.

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

2.
Every civilisation in the Galaxy will research the whole galaxy in a few hunred or thousend years after his Industrial Revolution by Telescopes.

Also planets without the transit method.
Big arrays of space telescopes, thousands or millions... of telescopes.
And perhaps also a telescope in the focus of a sun. "The Focal Mission".

They will definitely find the earth in a short time.

You have no idea what an alien civilisation might be like, so how can you state with certainty what an alien civilisation will do ?

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

Why not say "hello"? Why should they?

Again how can you know what an alien would do ?

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

They want to observe the earth and mankind. A perfect place is the backside of the moon. Also with big telescopes, you can see only the front side.

Just as you can't see the far side of the Moon from Earth, you can't see the Earth from the farside of the Moon, making it an extremely silly site for observing the Earth. Anyway we have sent probes to observe the farside of the Moon. Luna 3 sent the first images from the farside of the Moon in 1959, 58 years ago.

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

And the NASA is bound by instructions from DoD. See the founding law of NASA.

NASA is a civilian agency.

Anyway I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion ?

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

Aliens would wait for the right time.

When might that be and again how can you possibly know what aliens plan to do ?

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

Could make "shows" like Phonix 1997 or Belgium 1989 to test the reactions (in media etc.).

Never verified as real alien visitations.

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

Possibilities to prove the existence of alien activities are:
* A private mission to the moon, without influence of the (US) government, NASA and DoD.
Space X could do this.
If necessary, from a place in other country with a different company.
Because, every US space company must ask for OK the government for every space mission.

You do realise that there a plenty of space agencies outside the US, don't you ?

Countries that have explored the Moon are the former Soviet Union, China, Japan, India and the members of ESA. 

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

A probe in a low orbit with high end cameras. Like a spy satellite for photos of the moon surface, to find potential buildings etc..
Live sent unencrypted to earth.

This have allready been done. Unless ofcourse you think NASA, ESA, ROSCOSMOS, JAXA, ISRO and CNSA are all working together to supress "the truth"

Quote

 A network of ususal consumer telescopes around the world, that monitor 24/7 the moon and its surrounding orbit for unusual activities with movement detection.
"Unusual" are "dots" etc., that move not only in a ballistic/newtonian kind.
Change of direction, speed, appearing an a side of the moon, without vanishing before on the other side (start of a flying object of the surface) etc..

There are already a lot of private telescopes monitoring space all the time. This is something that you can actually do yourself.

59 minutes ago, Tobias Claren said:

Then only aliens, or spaceships of the USA remain.
Both would be extreme (US space ships = "Solar Warden").

Again this seems rather US centric.

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5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Hello.

 

@ Gatekeeper32


Hmmm, are Hawking, Walkowicz etc. so "stupid" or only naive or unknowing, that they believe, aliens do not know the earth.

And you know better? How so, I hesitate to ask.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

1.
Incidents like Westall 1966 (very good case, 200+ whitness, premium conditions...), Belgium 1989, Phoenix(-Lights) 1997...

Phoenix lights were flares and planes and the Belgian UFO flap atmospheric phenomena, to the best of our knowledge.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

are an axiom for ETI activities at/on earth.

The UFOlogy is in a really poor state (which we already knew) or you just don't know what you are on about and haven't done any research.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

2.
Every civilisation in the Galaxy will research the whole galaxy in a few hunred or thousend years after his Industrial Revolution by Telescopes.

How would you know?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Also planets without the transit method.

What?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Big arrays of space telescopes, thousands or millions... of telescopes.
And perhaps also a telescope in the focus of a sun. "The Focal Mission".

You know this how?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

They will definitely find the earth in a short time.

Why would you think so?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Why not say "hello"? Why should they?

Why shouldn't they?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

They want to observe the earth and mankind.

Again, you know this how? 

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

A perfect place is the backside of the moon.

No, that would be about the worst place one could possibly find. By far.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Also with big telescopes, you can see only the front side.

Yes, but the far side of the moon has been imaged in excruciating detail by orbiters - and not only by NASA. 

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

And the NASA is bound by instructions from DoD. See the founding law of NASA.

Uhm, no. It is bound by it's own instructions, but funded by Congress.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Aliens would wait for the right time.

How would you know?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Could make "shows" like Phonix 1997 or Belgium 1989 to test the reactions (in media etc.).

Oh utter nonsense. Please do some basic research before making a fool out of yourself, will you?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Aliens will not arrive without knowledge and language skills.

Why not?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Every intelligence service is watching other states, also aliens would listened to radio traffic for tens of years...

How would you know? Our radio signals are essentially buried in noise when they leave our solar system, so you are saying that aliens are camping out somewhere in our solar systems, eavesdropping on us? :huh:

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Possibilities to prove the existence of alien activities are:
* A private mission to the moon, without influence of the (US) government, NASA and DoD.
Space X could do this.

Sure they could, but plenty of other space agencies have been there besides NASA, so that point is moot. 

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

If necessary, from a place in other country with a different company.

Already been done. Again, please do some (VERY) basic research, will you?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Because, every US space company must ask for OK the government for every space mission.

No, they do not. They apply for an overall budget and whatever space missions they can fit within that budget they can do without asking for approval.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

A probe in a low orbit with high end cameras. Like a spy satellite for photos of the moon surface, to find potential buildings etc..
Live sent unencrypted to earth.

Already done by other space agencies than NASA. There are no aliens on the moon.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

* "pSETI", Planetary SETI.
Searching for Extratrerrestrial Activities on planets, moons etc. in the solar system.

Plenty of that happening already.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Also on the earth.
For example, in the lake erie and lake Baikal. Two very interesting places. 

Why are they interesting in this context?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

* A network of ususal consumer telescopes around the world, that monitor 24/7 the moon and its surrounding orbit for unusual activities with movement detection.
"Unusual" are "dots" etc., that move not only in a ballistic/newtonian kind.
Change of direction, speed, appearing an a side of the moon, without vanishing before on the other side (start of a flying object of the surface) etc..

Plenty of that happening already with tens of thousands of amateur astronomers around the globe. 

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Any point that moves against the Newton rules is intelligently controlled.

Not necessarily.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Then only aliens, or spaceships of the USA remain.
Both would be extreme (US space ships = "Solar Warden").

There are space craft of none US origin, you do know that, right?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

* A network of cheap private purchased sensor stations.
Raspberry PI with XLoBorg board (Compass and G-Sensor = Magnetometer and Gravimeter).
Connected to a central server. With a website that displays in real time anomalies with position (more stations, more accuracy), direction, speed etc.. Like "Flightradar24".
Only needed: Programmers that code a linux distribution (from a existing free linux for RaspBerry PI).
Put together, software on SD card, start, finished.
Only enter the geo-position in the web interface.

What on Earth would that help?

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

Every gravity anomaly would be a proof of a exotic electrogravitative propulsion.
What else? There are no natural fluctuations.

And you really think with a hobby set as the above described that you would be able to sense such? You don't know much about sensor technology, I daresay.

5 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

This lottery money could be used for a moon probe and/or submarine mission(s) in this lakes. And perhaps for programming this RasPI distri and the operation af the server.
Also Servers for a telescope network.

No. Just now.

Seriously, it would behoove you well to do some basic research before throwing your off the deep end.

Cheers,
Badeskov

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Posted (edited)

@ Noteverythingisaconspiracy


They are not "stupid", therefore the options "naive" etc..
If Hawking will not accept this option, this is naive.
Especially he warns against contact.
So he has to assume that visits are possible.

OK, If your spouse, children etc. are killed by a guy, and over 200 whitnesses say "this is the man, we had seen it 150m away in a clear sunny day", you would say "this is not conclusively proved".
I think not...


200+ whitnesses are an axiomatic proof.
Therefore, I explicitly wrote "axiomatic."
 

Quote

You have no idea what an alien civilisation might be like, so how can you state with certainty what an alien civilisation will do ?

EVERY Alien civilisation will research the stars.
From stonehenge-like observatories to big space telescopes.
It is impossible that a civilization exists that does not observe the stars.


And yes, the most likely body shape is the humanoid. This is called bioconvergence.
The humanoid body shape is the success model to an intelligent species.
A humanoid species will be formed under similar conditions.
And only these earth-like conditions create a smart species.

NASA astrologist Michell Thaller did not know this in a documentary series.
But for example, the astronaut Prof. Ulrich Walter knows the "bioconvergence" (other documentary).

Quote

Again how can you know what an alien would do ?

Exactly!
Also YOU can not say, Aliens would come, and instantly say "hello".
This is the primary "argument" of alien activity deniers...

Aliens are driven by logical comprehensibly motivation.
They act logically. And there will be no strongly divergent motivations between aliens and humans.

Human people in x centuries on a space mission to other planets, will also not simply "enter the door" and "say hello".
It is logically a species to observe and explore.
Ethical principles (developed by any intelligent species) can influence too much interference in social development.
Why are there still inhabitants of the jungle who know nothing about modern civilization? Because the observers do not want that.


I see, you are not objective, your are NOT a "sceptic".
"Sceptic" people are not so radically rejecting with a passive agressive "bullying attitude".
You have only an opinion, possibly from a fear of the unknown.

Behind my statements are educated people.
Physicists, astronomers and other people with doctortitles, professorship etc.

A small example.
I have unfortunately only the report of a German TV channel about the Belgian UFO wave.
In this, a physicist at the elite military university in Belgium says that he is sure they were aliens.
He is and has not been a "Believer", and has nothing to do with UFOs.
Whole video => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFoayL9XYU
Scientist: https://youtu.be/0aFoayL9XYU?t=6m49s
Try to listen the english statement from Prof. Emile Schweicher behind the german off voice.

Quote

Could it have been some type of top-secret military craft being tested?


No government had requested permission to make test flights over Belgium and is there any logic in doing so over a well populated area on a very clear night. Also, the U.S. Government assured the Belgian Authorities via the U.S. Embassy that no such test had taken place.
Some of the radar tape taken from the F-16s was sent to the Centre for the Study of Electronic Warfare and was examined by the eminent Professor Emile Schweicher. In Professor Schweicher's opinion the UFO could manoeuvre in a manner that is not possible according to our laws of mechanics and it was capable of sudden changes of velocity implying it had "infinite acceleration", which again is not possible. In the professor's own words: "I think extraterrestrial intelligence is very highly likely".
Captain Wes Meelsberg, one of the F-16 pilots involved in the incident, stated:
"I can't really tell you what it was, it was not a prototype and I don't believe it was a meteorological phenomenon".
A report of the events compiled by Major Lambrecht (RBAF) also stated:
"The presence of and/or tests with B2 or F-117A, remotely piloted planes and AWACs can all be excluded".

(Quote from: http://www.thewhyfiles.net/triangle2.htm )

A studied physicist and professor with no UFO background ...
He said, it must have been extraterrestrial background.

Arrogant people, even those without professional academic education (with radical rejection, they want to feel closer to their revered gods [natural scientists]), gladly claim that someone would not believe it after studying physics.
This is nonsense as you see. There are many natural scientists who believe in the existence of extraterrestrial visitors.
Of course, this is least true. It is a potential career killer.
There is documentation, you can see a whole room full of scientists at a UFO talk. But only from behind. They did not want their faces to be seen.
And in the 70s many real scientists at universitys even believed in the possible existence of spirits.
Today Penrose and Hameroff researching a consciousness separated from the body.
Yes, "THE" Penrose ...

Quote

ust as you can't see the far side of the Moon from Earth, you can't see the Earth from the farside of the Moon, making it an extremely silly site for observing the Earth. Anyway we have sent probes to observe the farside of the Moon. Luna 3 sent the first images from the farside of the Moon in 1959, 58 years ago.

Sorry, but this i a "stupid" answer. Insulting you is not my intention.
I've never claimed they're watching people with optical telescopes from above. What a "simple" assumption.
For a base, the backside is ideal. Like an aircraft carrier.
You have only ~240.000 miles (medium lunatic distance) from moon to the earth.
With little ships, UFO whitnesses could see occasionally in the sky, or at "shows" like Phoenix 1997, Plauen 1994, Belgium 1989 etc..
There is the "myth" of a giant radio bowl on the front surface of the moon.
Not visible because color etc. is adapted to the surface.
On the earth there is a giant antenna in a valley.
With a large parabolic mirror on the front of the moon, it would be possible to eavesdrop the earth's radio traffic.
This is all plausible.


Deniers and radical rejectors like to call themselves "skeptics".
That should sound more objective than "denier" or foe.


Even without "Warp" drive it is possible to travel the whole galaxy.
Experts, engineers, physicists ... say, with today's technology and fusio-reactors (a matter of time) 15%-20% light speed can be achieved.
In generation-ships, travel can take thousands or tens of thousands of years. It is possible (yes, also radiation and impacts are not unsolvable problems, there are solutions). And there are always volunteers.

Quote

Luna 3 sent the first images from the farside of the Moon in 1959, 58 years ago.


Yes, but it is not a crazy conspiracy theory (a "CT", OK, like the NSA surveillance before Snowden...), that also the russian government retouches photos.
This is logically much more likely for a government like the Russians or the USA.
Read the founding law of NASA. If the DoD says "do not publish proofs of alien activities", NASA must obey.
Therefore, you can never be sure that NASA has not retouched.
Because if something is on the moon, NASA must definitely retouch.
Do you really believe the DoD would allow that to be known? No way.
And you can not just leave photos disappearing. This is noticeable.
Retouching is the only option.
If something is on the moon, you will never see it on photos from NASA or the Russians, etc.
Possibly, a private company like Space X could make photos and publish it.
Space X plans to bring rich people in a orbit around the moon. On the same mission, they could make many sharp high resolution photos.
And previously in unmanned test missions.

Alien tech on the moon would be highly developed technique.
Even more, there would be no more aliens.
Imagine it is known that there are alien artifacts on the back of the moon.
There would be a run of many nations or private companies to the back to explore the technology and develop back.

Quote

NASA is a civilian agency.

Yes civilian, but they must obey commands (confidentiality) from the DoD.
Read the founding law: Https://history.nasa.gov/spaceact.html
Look for "department of defense". They can not publish what they want.
If they find aliens, alien activities, etc., they can not make it public.
You really believe the Pentagon would allow it? A very naive assumption.
At that time (1958), ostensibly because of military installations on Earth.
This is called "dual use"...

 

Quote

Never verified as real alien visitations.

What are "verified" for you?
There were many (hundreds, thousends, perhaps dozens of thousenad) witnesses. And documented lies of the US military (false alleged times of dropping military luminaries in relation to the sightings).
Not just "lights".
In a suburb there was a very close object.
The jumbo pilot Tripp (or trick) Johnson and his family and neighbors were standing in their front yards.
An object came down so far that the people could see the solid V-shaped structure between the lights.
Mr. Johnson said it was 1-2 miles tall, he could have landed a jumbo on it.
Also, the whole family Johnson says they could hear a voice in the head saying, "do not fear, this is just a demonstration."

Simple people laugh because they heard "voices in the head". They put out the "tin foil hat" bludgeon.
But this is not to laugh, it is technically possible. This is not a fantasy sci-fi.
You know "transcranial magnetic stimulation"? You can create sounds in the head with an EM field. "popping" etc ..
But later perhaps tones and even voices (modulated tones).
The same technical evolution, as from Hertz and Marconi over Morse to radio with voices (Am, FM...).
The brain is only a very poorly shielded computer.
When you put a mobile phone on an amplifier, you hear the interference.

 

Quote

You do realise that there a plenty of space agencies outside the US, don't you ?


Countries that have explored the Moon are the former Soviet Union, China, Japan, India and the members of ESA.

But only some with his own missions and photos.
And they all can keep it secret.
The smaller agencies rely on the images of NASA, etc.
This is convenient, they do not make their own expensive missions, they take the material for free.

I do not say "100%", there are buildings on the backside of moon.
This possible structures on the backside of the moon not relevant for the alien question.
There are enough accidents and close witnesses.

 

Quote

This have allready been done.

Fake News.....
There was not a single moon probe from a private company.
Are you "deprived" or malicious? You have intentionally "misunderstood" me. This is called rabulism.
Only photographs of private companies, if possible from many countries of the world would be credible.
I told you, why you can not trust NASA's photos or from Russia etc..

The safest way would be missions by media companies.
These companies earn money with sensations. These companies have no reason to keep a secret.
If there are alien activities, they want to make it public. They could make a lot of money.
That is why they are the most trustworthy.
In contrast, NASA, which must hide alien activities when the DoD so demands.
And the DoD would demand that. There is no doubt.

There are rumors that Stephen Spielberg is planning a documentary on aliens in Lake Baikal (Russia). Working title "depth 211".

 

Quote

There are already a lot of private telescopes monitoring space all the time. This is something that you can actually do yourself.

Not "space"!, only the moon, and 24/7.
Where are this telescopes? With Webcams?

I do not mean easily recognizable spaceships.
You must look for alien activities to discover them.
These many telescopes do not look for space ships around the moon!
I wrote of "points". Only points or "dots"!
And Spaceships near the earth, you could clearly see with a 8" or 10" telescope are not easy to find.
If you use a telephoto lens, it is very difficult to get a distant object into the picture.
A few arc seconds left or right, and you are very far from the object.

Getting a spaceship randomly into the picture would be a very big coincidence.
And even if it does not move.
Therefore, one must monitor the surroundings of the moon over a large area.
"Points" or point accumulations, which violate the rules of ballistics.
Then it is intelligently controlled. No alternative possible.

Quote

Again this seems rather US centric.


It's not critic, but i do not understand this sentence. Also not with help of Google Translator.
I'am not a US citizen, and I do not live in the USA. And I am not a "fanboy", I am a realist.
Only the USA have big black budgets and this level of high end top secret research.

Edited by Tobias Claren

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Tobias Claren I thought about giving a detailed reply to your post. but since you seem to be in full conspiracy mode anything I might say could be countered by you claiming a conspiracy, so whats the point.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

Gish gallop is strong with this one

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Tobias Claren said:

@ Noteverythingisaconspiracy


They are not "stupid", therefore the options "naive" etc..
If Hawking will not accept this option, this is naive.
Especially he warns against contact.
So he has to assume that visits are possible.

Of course he does acknowledge that visitation is possible. Like everybody else, that does not mean that they are believing that it is actually happening. 

Quote

OK, If your spouse, children etc. are killed by a guy, and over 200 whitnesses say "this is the man, we had seen it 150m away in a clear sunny day", you would say "this is not conclusively proved".
I think not...

Completely different scenario.

Quote

200+ whitnesses are an axiomatic proof.
Therefore, I explicitly wrote "axiomatic."

No, just no. They are not proof. First of all, proof only exists in mathematics. Secondly, anecdotes does not evidence make, however much you like it to be. 

Quote

EVERY Alien civilisation will research the stars.
From stonehenge-like observatories to big space telescopes.
It is impossible that a civilization exists that does not observe the stars.

You simply do not know this. This is all in your mind.

Quote

And yes, the most likely body shape is the humanoid. This is called bioconvergence.
The humanoid body shape is the success model to an intelligent species.
A humanoid species will be formed under similar conditions.
And only these earth-like conditions create a smart species.

Again, you are making things up.

Quote

NASA astrologist Michell Thaller did not know this in a documentary series.
But for example, the astronaut Prof. Ulrich Walter knows the "bioconvergence" (other documentary).

He doesn't know. He speculates.

Quote

Exactly!
Also YOU can not say, Aliens would come, and instantly say "hello".
This is the primary "argument" of alien activity deniers...

Aliens are driven by logical comprehensibly motivation.
They act logically. And there will be no strongly divergent motivations between aliens and humans.

Human people in x centuries on a space mission to other planets, will also not simply "enter the door" and "say hello".
It is logically a species to observe and explore.
Ethical principles (developed by any intelligent species) can influence too much interference in social development.
Why are there still inhabitants of the jungle who know nothing about modern civilization? Because the observers do not want that.

You don't think we would discover them even if they did not land on the White House Lawn? That is pretty naive,

Quote

I see, you are not objective, your are NOT a "sceptic".
"Sceptic" people are not so radically rejecting with a passive agressive "bullying attitude".
You have only an opinion, possibly from a fear of the unknown.

Nonsense.

Quote

Behind my statements are educated people.
Physicists, astronomers and other people with doctortitles, professorship etc.

No, there is not. But please feel free to cite said physicists, astronomers and other doctorates that you feel that support your silly statements. 

Quote

A small example.
I have unfortunately only the report of a German TV channel about the Belgian UFO wave.
In this, a physicist at the elite military university in Belgium says that he is sure they were aliens.
He is and has not been a "Believer", and has nothing to do with UFOs.
Whole video => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFoayL9XYU
Scientist: https://youtu.be/0aFoayL9XYU?t=6m49s
Try to listen the english statement from Prof. Emile Schweicher behind the german off voice.

You are aware, naturally, that everyone involved later agreed that what was observed was due to atmospheric phenomena, right?

Quote

(Quote from: http://www.thewhyfiles.net/triangle2.htm )

A studied physicist and professor with no UFO background ...
He said, it must have been extraterrestrial background.

You have to be kidding. Have you ever researched this pathetic case?

Quote

Arrogant people, even those without professional academic education (with radical rejection, they want to feel closer to their revered gods [natural scientists]), gladly claim that someone would not believe it after studying physics.

No idea what this means.

Quote

This is nonsense as you see. There are many natural scientists who believe in the existence of extraterrestrial visitors.

No, there is not. You made that up.

Quote

Of course, this is least true. It is a potential career killer.

No, it is not. 

Quote

There is documentation, you can see a whole room full of scientists at a UFO talk. But only from behind. They did not want their faces to be seen.

Nonsense.

Quote

And in the 70s many real scientists at universitys even believed in the possible existence of spirits.

Uhm. no. Can you point to any university scientist  on the record for this? 

Quote

Today Penrose and Hameroff researching a consciousness separated from the body.
Yes, "THE" Penrose ...

Penrose? Seriously?

Quote

Sorry, but this i a "stupid" answer. Insulting you is not my intention.
I've never claimed they're watching people with optical telescopes from above. What a "simple" assumption.
For a base, the backside is ideal. Like an aircraft carrier.
You have only ~240.000 miles (medium lunatic distance) from moon to the earth.
With little ships, UFO whitnesses could see occasionally in the sky, or at "shows" like Phoenix 1997, Plauen 1994, Belgium 1989 etc..

So you didn't understand the very basic fact that the Phoenix lights and the Belgian UFO flap has been shown to be planes, flares and atmospheric phenomena beyond any doubts? Good grief... 

Quote

There is the "myth" of a giant radio bowl on the front surface of the moon.
Not visible because color etc. is adapted to the surface.

Good grief. Any of said sort would would be immediately recognizable.

Quote

On the earth there is a giant antenna in a valley.

So?

Quote

With a large parabolic mirror on the front of the moon, it would be possible to eavesdrop the earth's radio traffic.
This is all plausible..

No, as it would be very obvious. Just no.

Quote

Deniers and radical rejectors like to call themselves "skeptics".
That should sound more objective than "denier" or foe.

Skeptics look at the evidence at hand, and what you have presented is, by all means of respect, pure fantasy.

Quote

Even without "Warp" drive it is possible to travel the whole galaxy.

Oh really, please do elaborate.

Quote

Experts, engineers, physicists ... say, with today's technology and fusio-reactors (a matter of time) 15%-20% light speed can be achieved.

Yes, when the technology is developed.

Quote

In generation-ships, travel can take thousands or tens of thousands of years. It is possible (yes, also radiation and impacts are not unsolvable problems, there are solutions). And there are always volunteers.

So?

Quote

Yes, but it is not a crazy conspiracy theory (a "CT", OK, like the NSA surveillance before Snowden...), that also the russian government retouches photos.

But it is. A really uneducated one.

Quote

This is logically much more likely for a government like the Russians or the USA.

No

Quote

Read the founding law of NASA. If the DoD says "do not publish proofs of alien activities", NASA must obey.

Nonsense. But please feel to cite the exact part that states that NASA cannot publish proof of alien activities without the approval of the DoD. You cannot. 

Quote

Therefore, you can never be sure that NASA has not retouched.

You obviously know very little of how NASA works. 

Quote

Because if something is on the moon, NASA must definitely retouch.

No, that is just outright a stupid statement given that NASA is not the only entity imaging the moon. 

Quote

Do you really believe the DoD would allow that to be known? No way.

Completely idiotic statement.

Quote

And you can not just leave photos disappearing. This is noticeable.

Since NASA and associated entities haven's done that, I am not sure where you got that stupid idea from.

Quote

Retouching is the only option.

Nonsense. You just have no clue of what you are looking at. 

Quote

If something is on the moon, you will never see it on photos from NASA or the Russians, etc.

So you seriously think the US, the russians, the chinese, the indians, the ESA is in a great conspiracy to keep an alien presence on the moon secret? :huh:

Quote

Possibly, a private company like Space X could make photos and publish it.
Space X plans to bring rich people in a orbit around the moon. On the same mission, they could make many sharp high resolution photos.
And previously in unmanned test missions.

And that would make a difference?

Quote

Alien tech on the moon would be highly developed technique.
Even more, there would be no more aliens.
Imagine it is known that there are alien artifacts on the back of the moon.
There would be a run of many nations or private companies to the back to explore the technology and develop back.

Yes civilian, but they must obey commands (confidentiality) from the DoD.
Read the founding law: Https://history.nasa.gov/spaceact.html
Look for "department of defense". They can not publish what they want.
If they find aliens, alien activities, etc., they can not make it public.
You really believe the Pentagon would allow it? A very naive assumption.
At that time (1958), ostensibly because of military installations on Earth.
This is called "dual use"...

 

What are "verified" for you?
There were many (hundreds, thousends, perhaps dozens of thousenad) witnesses. And documented lies of the US military (false alleged times of dropping military luminaries in relation to the sightings).
Not just "lights".
In a suburb there was a very close object.
The jumbo pilot Tripp (or trick) Johnson and his family and neighbors were standing in their front yards.
An object came down so far that the people could see the solid V-shaped structure between the lights.
Mr. Johnson said it was 1-2 miles tall, he could have landed a jumbo on it.
Also, the whole family Johnson says they could hear a voice in the head saying, "do not fear, this is just a demonstration."

Simple people laugh because they heard "voices in the head". They put out the "tin foil hat" bludgeon.
But this is not to laugh, it is technically possible. This is not a fantasy sci-fi.
You know "transcranial magnetic stimulation"? You can create sounds in the head with an EM field. "popping" etc ..
But later perhaps tones and even voices (modulated tones).
The same technical evolution, as from Hertz and Marconi over Morse to radio with voices (Am, FM...).
The brain is only a very poorly shielded computer.
When you put a mobile phone on an amplifier, you hear the interference.

 

But only some with his own missions and photos.
And they all can keep it secret.
The smaller agencies rely on the images of NASA, etc.
This is convenient, they do not make their own expensive missions, they take the material for free.

I do not say "100%", there are buildings on the backside of moon.
This possible structures on the backside of the moon not relevant for the alien question.
There are enough accidents and close witnesses.

 

Fake News.....
There was not a single moon probe from a private company.
Are you "deprived" or malicious? You have intentionally "misunderstood" me. This is called rabulism.
Only photographs of private companies, if possible from many countries of the world would be credible.
I told you, why you can not trust NASA's photos or from Russia etc..

The safest way would be missions by media companies.
These companies earn money with sensations. These companies have no reason to keep a secret.
If there are alien activities, they want to make it public. They could make a lot of money.
That is why they are the most trustworthy.
In contrast, NASA, which must hide alien activities when the DoD so demands.
And the DoD would demand that. There is no doubt.

There are rumors that Stephen Spielberg is planning a documentary on aliens in Lake Baikal (Russia). Working title "depth 211".

 

Not "space"!, only the moon, and 24/7.
Where are this telescopes? With Webcams?

I do not mean easily recognizable spaceships.
You must look for alien activities to discover them.
These many telescopes do not look for space ships around the moon!
I wrote of "points". Only points or "dots"!
And Spaceships near the earth, you could clearly see with a 8" or 10" telescope are not easy to find.
If you use a telephoto lens, it is very difficult to get a distant object into the picture.
A few arc seconds left or right, and you are very far from the object.

Getting a spaceship randomly into the picture would be a very big coincidence.
And even if it does not move.
Therefore, one must monitor the surroundings of the moon over a large area.
"Points" or point accumulations, which violate the rules of ballistics.
Then it is intelligently controlled. No alternative possible.


It's not critic, but i do not understand this sentence. Also not with help of Google Translator.
I'am not a US citizen, and I do not live in the USA. And I am not a "fanboy", I am a realist.
Only the USA have big black budgets and this level of high end top secret research.

Can't really be bothered with the rest of your incoherent ramblings. 

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited by badeskov
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@ badeskov


You can not say "It were flares".
This is only that, was they say by the military.
Of course, the military says always the truth ...
It is proved that the alleged flare drops do not fit at all times when there were sightings.
Besides, there were very close witnesses (like the Johnsons and neighbors in a suburb), and they know what they have seen.
Also witnesses with a military background. People who know how flares look.
Here are military flares at night:


And also governor fife symington is a pilot.

He said in an interview:
"I'm a pilot and I know just about every machine that flies.
"I can definitively say that this craft did not resemble any man made object I'd ever seen.
"And it was certainly not high-altitude flares because flares don't fly in formation."
He added: "It remains a great mystery.
"Other people saw it, responsible people.
"I don't know why people would ridicule it."

And http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/99024383-story

"People who believe in the flares are not going to believe in anything else"

By the way, are you believe in god?
THATS stupid. This is an Infantile Neureosis with a father's complex.
Do your parents or relatives believe in God? Tell them that they are stupid...
"God" is esotheric, superstition..., but aliens are physically plausible...
Look in a mirror, the mankind are the proof for existing "aliens".


and the Belgian UFO flap atmospheric phenomena, to the best of our knowledge.


I think, you do not know much about the belgium UFO flap.
For example, what are the names of the two police men?
And there are a bunch of detailled testimonys from whitnesses.
Close whitnesses. For example, a UFO followed witnesses home (across the fields next to the road), hovering over her car.
I had read a long website. Many testimonies were given full names.
Perhaps I can find a website with this testimonys in English.


The UFOlogy is in a really poor state (which we already knew) or you just don't know what you are on about and haven't done any research.

Of course. But my utterances are not wrong.
I am for real serious research, non religious or esoteric. The points behind asterisks would be serious research.
Only "SETI", search for radio signals is serious, but nothing else 0_o?
Also "pSETI" is a serious method.

How would you know?


It is the natural curiosity and research drive that EVERY intelligent species has that uses tools and machines.
The more intelligent, the more curious, that is a scientific fact in biology.


What?

You do not know the transit method? That says a lot about your professional general knowledge ;-).
Currently, planets are found around other suns, when they lightly darken the sun while transit between the earth/telescope and her sun.
With very powerful telescopes (for example, arrays) the astronomy can also find planets without the transit method. Only a small part of the planets can be found using this passive method.

You know this how?

What?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOCAL_(spacecraft)

Why would you think so?

You want to provoke with rabulism? Sorry, if not.
"short" means also thousands of years after Industrial revolution.
Also dozens of thousends years is "short" for a civilisation.
This is simple math. Work (amount) and time.
Someday, you know all the stars and orbiting planets in the Milky Way. Every work has an end.
So you know ALL the planets, and know if they are inhabited (position, gas composition of the atmosphere, etc.).

A finite number of suns. Many, 100 up to 300 billion, but a finite number.
They can be automated mapped with telescope arrays (perhaps automatically build by robots) in space and artificial intelligence. And the most promising candidates could be examined more closely manually.

Why shouldn't they?

Why should they NOT? I am open for both
It would be more logical and ethical.
First learn the language, culture etc. etc..
Perhaps, you could trigger panic.
You can have ethical principles ("Supreme Directive").
Or you have a bigger plan.
But the "how" is not an important question.

Supposedly, aliens have influenced more than 60 times the evolution of human.
"Crazy" theory (Lazaar's assertion, but he emphasizes that he has only read it!), but technically plausible.
Genetical engeneering already exists today (in the beginning). It will been further perfected in tens of years.
Then, we could do the same with a monkey. Make a self-awareness intelligent and speaking "human" from a monkey.
This is useless on earth, but on planets without dominating species, why not?!
Or do it from a reptile or bird to a humanoid speaking and intelligent lifeform.
Yes, more effort (build arms and hands with thumps...), but generally possible...


Would humans on other planets intervene in the evolution of a promising species? Why not?
It would be possible, why should not one do it?
Ethics? The earth does not have much Lifespan.
Only 5 billion years to the death of the sun. Red suns have much more lifespan.
It is said, that in 500 million years it will be too hot for life on Earth.
See the long evolution from normal animals to humans. Time was running out.
Then it is legitimate to intervene in evolution on a planet.
Also the time of our universe may not be long. Maybe only a few tens of billions of years.

Again, you know this how?

The more intelligent, the more curious. This is a known wisdom from biology.
Every intelligent civilization has an urge for research.
There are many volunteers for a mission to Mars. Poor life, and without return.
If a species find a exoplanet with intelligent life (or animals with potential), they find volunteers for a mission.
Also for hundreds or thousands of years in comfortable generation ships.
"Money" is not the problem, a technically highly developed civilization has almost "unlimited" resources.
Self replicating working robots, that build space ships from ore from asteroids etc..

No, that would be about the worst place one could possibly find. By far.

Why? I could ask the same simple questions.
But in this case, this is not a rethorical trick.
Why not the backside? The backside is much better for confidentiality (against telescopes).
And even if you do not know the back is not "dark".
The back is also illuminated by the sun.
They could use helium 3 for fusion reactors, but also solar power.

Yes, but the far side of the moon has been imaged in excruciating detail by orbiters - and not only by NASA.

Yes, but not many nations, and it is plausible that this nations Keep it secret.
What nations are those whose own (!) Probes have photographed the backs?
And how many private companies have photographed the backside of the moon?

Here is a clip from the National Press Club Disclosure Conference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6QNzH4x1rY

Hey, perhaps there is nothing... But this is not important for the alien question.

Uhm, no. It is bound by it's own instructions, but funded by Congress.

Uhm, yes...
Search for "department of defense":
https://history.nasa.gov/spaceact.html

Not "instructions", that is your word...!
Only a "veto" against publishing things of "national security".
And alien activities or artifacts etc. certainly belong to it.

Oh utter nonsense. Please do some basic research before making a fool out of yourself, will you?

Uh, aggressively helpless attack without argument.
You know how aliens think?
In science, psychology ... the question is asked about motivations.
And then we can transfer human behavior to aliens.
Intelligent and researching civilizations have similar motivations and ethical rules. Some could be nerdy asperger-like, some are "cowboys".
But also the "cowboys" could have their ethical rules. Like a intellectual citizen, philosoph, politician, and his soldier ("cowboy").

There is no "material", no assured "knowledge".
This is a legitimate theory, based on incontestably existing incidents.
Incidents including good witnesses.

Sorry, but I believe you are not in an intellectual and/or academic position to make such "judgments". What is your profession? Perhaps these guys with trunker cap from South Park mumbling "they steal our jobs" ;-) .

Maybe you think even in "God" (absolute nonsense, esotericism, superstition).
To believe in God is psychologically a mental disorder (said Freud!)!
Your aggressive rejection is just an opinion. Without a professional background.
And if (which profession?), It is not a question of education.
There are many scientists who believe in alien activities.

There are opinions. Not more.
Some opinions are more stupid than others.
Especially aggressively generally rejecting (point to a lower intellect and horizon).
I do not believe in everything. For example, beaming will NEVER be possible.


If your spouse, children etc. are killed by a guy, and over 200 whitnesses say "this is the man, we had seen it 150m away in a clear sunny day", you would say "this is not proved"? All liars? That would be an extreme conspiracy theory!
I think not... I think you want to see him hanging...
See for Westall High 1966 for an close incident with over 200 credible whitnesses.
Why should they all lie?
This incident can not be misinterpreted.
No "Venus", no "light behind clouds", not Jupiter etc.
An object, as big as a small bus, round, metallic shining, landed almost silently on a field near a meadow.
There was hockey lessons on the meadow before school.
Possibly 150m away. Error excluded.
No known technique in 1966 and today is capable of this.


If I were Doctor and Professor of Physics, Biology etc., I would not think otherwise.
This is not a matter of education. Many scientists and other intelligent people believe in alien activities. For example Emile Schweicher (other text, use CTRL+F).


Please do some basic research

About what?
Show me the "basic research" material.
This does not exist. It can not exist.

Why not?


Because it is logical.
You travel to a foreign country, and do not understand a word?
Let us suppose that in the foreign country no one understands English.

You have a translation computer?
For this, someone has to deal with the language before.
Immediately all-comprehensively translated computers (in Star Trek etc.) are SciFi fantasy. Never possible.


Our radio signals are essentially buried in noise when they leave our solar system

I had never said, that these signals must leave our solar system.
That would go a very long time (a lightyear per year, in a ~100.000 miles big galaxy), and this signals from terestrial radio/tv, mobile phones etc. are very weak omnidirectional. Also for a base on the moon.
But not with a big parabolic antenna on the moon.
This was only a part of this myth, and you had torn it from the context.

Yes, I accept the possibility that they are "camping" in the solar system.
The Mankind would do the same, after dozens of thousands of years at the destination.
Like an anthropologist, who observes natives in the jungle.
These tens or hundreds or a few thousand years do not make any difference after such a long journey.
And not to forget, genetical engineering of a species about thousends of years.
Would the human do this in the future? Yes, why not...
Especially, if intelligent species are rare.


Sure they could, but plenty of other space agencies have been there besides NASA, so that point is moot.

Yes they could, and they should. Why not?
Which other space agencies? And if they had send there own probe, why should they say the truth? "A Question of National Security"...

Countries such as Mexico and Brazil are also hiding their UFO crashes from world-wide publicity. Perhaps, even small countries (Brazil is large, but economically small) feel "big" and "important" when they have a "UFO secret".
There are very close witnesses in Varghina. A man took an alien, and died a week later of multiple infections. For the doctors a mystery. Medical not usual/possible. Not to mention the secret research on technology.


Already been done. Again, please do some (VERY) basic research, will you?


Which private (!) company has sent a probe with cameras around the moon without any participation of a state authority or mony from them?
Again, You wrote bull**** mith malicious intent.
Show me this "very basic research" material. Where is this absolutely from government and his money independant company or NGO that makes space exploration? Or a entertainment company.
E.g. A mission commissioned and paid by the Discovery Channel or Sony Entertainment or a large Pay-TV network etc..
Facts on the table! Not rethorical tricks...
"TransOrbital" was "vaporware". No trailblazer mission to moon in 2003.
It seems, TO is "dead".

The FAA is responsible for the permission of every mission.
If they (private companys, if possible for a media company) find nothing on the moon, it is absolutely OK for me.
Then the question is clarified once and for all.
This is not important for the the alien activity subject.
It is just one aspect or "enigma" of many.

No, they do not. They apply for an overall budget and whatever space missions they can fit within that budget they can do without asking for approval.


A private company does not apply for a "budget".
You probably does not understand what is private spaceflight?!?
They do what they want.
But they must ask the US government for permission.
For every mission. Like the start permission on a airport.
And it seems, perhaps not only for the (free) airspace, also what they want to do.
We will see.


Plenty of that happening already.


What exactly? Show me!
"That"!!! Not other things!


Why are they interesting in this context?

It seems you have absolutely no knowledge of incidents.
OK, this is not bad, but you are acting as if you knew everything 0_o; -) ...

Google for Lake Baikal UFO and Lake Baikal aliens.
For example:
* http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/features/f0077-aliens-and-ufos-at-worlds-deepest-lake/
* http://www.cryptopia.us/site/2015/01/baikal-lake-humanoids-russia/
Quote:


...declassified “secret” files released by the Russian government indicate that in 1982 seven military divers were training in the depths of Baikal when they spied bizarrely shaped underwater vehicles that moved far faster than any technology the Soviet Navy was in possession of at the time.

As if that weren’t strange enough, the divers also claimed that they came across a squad of silver suit clad — though clearly non-human — beings at a depth of about 150-feet. These brave (and quite possibly foolhardy) divers attempted to capture some of these unusual humanoids resulting in the brutal deaths of three of the divers. The four survivors who recounted their harrowing experience were also said to have been severely injured by the “visitors.”

Some Whitnesses had also seen a UFO, landed on the ice, and sunk through the ice (melt/broke...).
This could be a photo from the place:
https://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/38000/38721/ISS019-E-010556_lrg.jpg
I say could (!), not "is"...

The same with Lake Erie UFO.
http://csewi.org/lake-erie-ufo/

Here at the end Erie and Baikal:
http://listverse.com/2016/06/13/10-alleged-underwater-alien-ufo-bases/

It would be worth examining these lakes.
This topic is about money for searching for extraterrestrial life.
And this mean not only the known SETI.


Plenty of that happening already with tens of thousands of amateur astronomers around the globe.


Really? There are "thousends of amateur astronomers", they search targeted for spaceships, little dots?
This is rabulistic "BS".
There is no network of people who monitor the moon only (!) for the purpose of observation for unnatural phenomena. This is what I mean. I think you knew that. This is malicious rabulism.
Show me this people! Not only "amateur astronomers". I think you know, "amateur astronomers" are often very ignorant, and not open for the UFO-Topic.
I would not buy a telescope and tracking device etc. for romantic "sight seeings" at the Moon etc..
Thats is OK, but there a better photos and videos from moon, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars etc..
I would only use it for UFO monitoring purposes...
We need not "amateur astronomers" for monitoring the moon and his surroundind space for unusual activities.
We need open minded people, who do not want to see a space ship in EVERY point.
People they collect the material, and scientific people they can analyze the ballastic for not natural behavior. And if there is the same phenomenon on several videos, "water drops" or "birds" are impossible.
From several positions on earth, you have several angles. "Birds" etc. in the lower earth atmosphere can be excluded, and possibly the distance can be determined. In minimum, inside or outside the earth atmosphere or near orbit.
More far (near the moon), less differences in Positions.


Me: "Any point that moves against the Newton rules is intelligently controlled."
You: "Not necessarily"

OK, what would it be?
Examples... You're in the debt.


You:

"There are space craft of none US origin, you do know that, right?"

Are US space ships more likely than extraterrestrial ships?
Do you believe in US spaceships? I prefer "not".
But both would be extreme.

What on Earth would that help?


badeskov ask what help a network of sensor stations.
Are you so uninformed?
If you want to discuss the subject and themes on a site like this, you should be a little inform.

A flying object without a usual drive (turbines, propeller, wings... noise) needs an exotic drive technology. A very theoretical "electrogravitative propulsion".

There are incidents with effects on gravitation and magnetic field.

Plauen 1994 points to a gravitational pressure towards the ground:
Http://archiv.mufon-ces.org/docs/PlauenE.pdf

She realized that the light surrounded a small


9-year-old oak-tree like an aura. The little tree was surrounded by other small trees,
but none of the other trees were illuminated and it was also the only one that was
swaying back and forth in the wind. Mrs. Anna Hoferland felt the strong wind and was surprised
that only the illuminated tree was moving with the wind. The other trees were not
affected, but this one was touching the ground at times and seemed to have a terrible
struggle against the wind. Mrs. Anna Hoferland, looking for the source of the wind, suddenly
spotted a big luminous object approximately 100 meters away, hovering at an altitude
of about 30 meters just above the building. It looked to her like two frisbees stuck
together, turning in opposite directions. The bottom part had small, dark squares that
looked like windows under which a circle of white lights rotated in a clockwise
direction. The top of the object had a circle of white lights as well, but these were
turning counterclockwise.

"and it was also the only one that was swaying back and forth in the wind."
This is not the original wording!
In the german original "like a storm":
"The small oak tree was the only one that was moving like a storm."


And you know these many stories with cars that go out, and can not start?
A strong magnetic field influences electronics.
A "electrogravitative propulsion" could have this strong magnetic field.
At Westall incident 1966 a schoolboy run to the object, and fell unconscious to the ground.
A strong magnetic field can disturb the human brain function.
The same like "transcranial magnetic stimulation".


Therefore, sensor stations.
Self paid. But all connected to a central server.
I would buy two and operate them in two cities.
In the center of a 1mio city, and ~15 miles from this place more "in the countryside".
Why do private people buy weather stations and connect them to the Internet?


And you really think with a hobby set as the above described that you would be able to sense such? You don't know much about sensor technology, I daresay.

Yes. We can not use gravimeters for 100.000 dollars. This gravimeters for geology, searching for oil etc..
And on the other side, it needs cheap technology for a low acceptance threshold.

Like this:
http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&langpair=de|en&u=http%3A//www.technische-ufo-forschung.de/technische-hilfsmittel.html
PDF: http://www.technische-ufo-forschung.de/images/Dateien/c-Ufomultisensor 1-0 englisch.pdf

But for the masses, cheap and simple to build for laymen.

"Hobby" is unobjective...


No. Just now.


He? What?


Seriously, it would behoove you well to do some basic research before throwing your off the deep end.

And again this BS with "some basic research". This is a very old and stupid rethorical trick...


Your rhetorical tricks not new... They are very simple...
"Why not", "do some basic research" etc. are rethorical fouls, not intelligent/good arguments.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ambigamy/201210/old-bag-defensive-rhetorical-tricks

You did not bring any counter-arguments. Only hollow phrases...

I guess you're a "working drone", that is dissatisfied with their work and life.
Give your parents the blame, because they are responsible for your life situation!
There is a video blogger. He advises people without a satisfied live (because there parents are white trash), to blame their parents, and to separate from them.
Never see again, never show their grandchildren etc..
Ambition or indifference of the parents is absolutely crucial.
Google for Amy Chua (autor of "Battle hymn of the tiger mom").
49% of Asian-American people have the bachelor. Only 28% in the whole US american population.
And I read, Asians are 5% of the population in the US. But up to 25% of the students at the elite universities.

Does your work make you (really) happy? For real? Ask yourself:
"Would I give up my work if I came to 50 million dollars?"
Yes? If so, your work is lousy.


And Bob Smith has said 1962 a well known sentence...

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