Is this the Beast of Quantock Hills?

[oldrover]

28 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

You've contradicted yourself. In post 14 you allude to the fact that it's probable that big cats are in rural and semi rural Britain... and now you're questioning the validity of the first hand eye witness. If big cats are out there then people will eventually see them and have close encounters. 

Not at all, I've stated quite clearly that I know for certain that

 there have been exotic cats recovered dead and alive from the British countryside. The largest of which was a puma.

But, I added the following

How they got there and how long they'd been there though is a different matter. 

As in I'm not convinced they were there long term, or at least I've never seen anything over the years to convince me that they are. 

And yes I do question the validity of the eye witness accounts when they're not physically possible. As I recommend you check, and I'm not being off hand here I mean it, by trying to make out the sort of detail at 200 meters that this guy thinks he can.

I don't doubt it's possible that there could be alien cat species in the UK, but if this is the sort of evidence we have to make decisions on I'm going to stick with not proven. Sorry. 

Edited for clarity

Edited April 18, 2017 by oldrover

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

Well, the history of big cats (and by that I'm not just talking about the 'true' big cats or Pantherines, or large cats like pumas [which aren't taxonomically big cats], but any exotic non native species) being suspected of being at large in the British countryside has a long history. Darren Naish, Max Blake, and others published on a lynx shot in the wild in Devon in 1903, details here

 https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/edwardian-lynx-from-england/

There are other earlier examples I'm sure, but cats, mystery, or domestic are not my thing so I can't point to specific examples, but I'm sure I've got got a few half remembered references knocking about in my head somewhere.

As a matter of interest Darren Naish is a publishing scientist, and does or did believe that the evidence for large cats living wild over here is persuasive. Here is an old article of his outlining his position, http://darrennaish.blogspot.co.uk/2006/02/british-big-cats-how-good-or-bad-is.html

I don't know what the evidence he's citing is because as I say, this isn't my thing, but I do know that a live puma was trapped in Scotland, in the 80's, and was given the name Felicity for some reason. Here's a page that details this and some other cases  http://scotcats.online.fr/abc/photoalbum/cannich.html I don't vouch for the website because I only skimmed through it. 

I also know of at least one leopard skull found (I think near or on Bodmin Moor, to which we will return, but again I have no idea if this was a publicity stunt). And that several exotic species have been shot across the British Isles over the years. 

The 'normal' theory for these hinges on releases/escapes of exotic pets. Back in the late 70's (78 I think) Mainland UK, IE Wales and England, not sure about Scotland, but definitely excluding Northern Ireland, passed the Dangerous Wild Animal Act. Essentially this regulated and licensed the private keeping of dangerous wild animals, pretty much what the name suggests really.  In the aftermath of which there were/are widespread rumours that a lot of people released large cats into the wild here. Every once in a while a story crops up in the press confessing or accusing someone else of these releases. 

Before this it was a free for all, you really could buy a lion from Harrods if you wanted, and you weren't required to meet any particular requirement for keeping them, still can in N.I as I understand it, or you could until much later anyway. There's a photo I can never find of a young woman strolling down a London street with an adult tiger on a dog lead. Things had to change.

There are stories of big cats loose over here from pretty much everywhere, in my country we have lots of places which we abbreviate to 'Bont', and just about every one of them has it's own 'beast of Bont'. My ex wife was convinced that her kitten was decapitated by her local mystery felid, the 'beast of Tonmawr'. See what I mean, they are everywhere but the most famous examples are the Surrey Puma (before my time), and the mega stars of the British big cat firmament the 'Beast of Bodmin Moor', and the 'Beast of Exmoor' (also before my time really). To be honest I'm not sure if they're supposed to be the same cat or different animals.

In 1983 the government sent a detachment of Royal Marines to shoot the beast. They did not, in fact they didn't fire a single round, but apparently some of them claimed to have seen it. My favourite story from this hunt was that one concerned local daubed 'DOG' in luminous paint on their Labrador before letting it out at night. 

I've seen more photographic evidence, stills and footage, from an array of witnesses, police included, and have never seen a single frame that stood up. As an aside another ex of mine had a brother who had his neighbourhood swarming with armed police after he was chased home by a lion (Old English Sheepdog), in his defense there was a circus in town about half a mile away and they did have lions. 

That's the 'normal', the 'not so normal' goes in two directions that I'm aware of firstly, there's the like of 'Cat Country' author Di Francis. She claims that the animals are not exotic escapees, but a previously uncatalogued species of British big cat. Too stupid to comment on any further. Francis' book is noteable for two things, firstly she shows the ex-spouse kitten beheading beast of Tonmawr in a full colour photo,  it's a tabby cat. But after that Francis does something nasty. A little girl disappeared somewhere in England, and despite the family asking her not to, she included this in her book and claimed the child was taken by one of her cats. Later of course the real creature that took the child confessed, and that was that. Nice one Di Francis, bet the family enjoyed you doing that.

The other direction it goes in is toward the 'black dog' zooform traditions we have over here, as in a more supernatural, elemental type phenomena. 

First, thank you for a rather thorough introduction. The theories are much like our Bigfoot in having the same basic theories.

1. All hoax/misidentification 

2. A presently unidentified normal animal species

3. An existing exotic species

4. The realm of the 'beyond the normal' (paranormal)

As usual with us I am more open to the possibility of #4 from my belief in the paranormal from multiple other subjects. This gives #4 a lower hurdle to overcome. I believe that this is a universe complex beyond our understanding. I lean to a #4 understanding of Bigfoot actually. No opinion yet on these big cats.

You also include the following about paranormal big cat theories

"I utterly reject this totally, but as it happens I did see such a thing once, a huge black cat the size of a horse at least running across the skyline  80's. I can still see it now. Except of course I never saw any such thing, but I still have the childhood memory of doing so."

Now, utter rejection is kind of telling here with me. I can certainly understand strongly questioning.

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by papageorge1

[oldrover]

40 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

First, than you for a rather thorough introduction. The theories are muck like our Bigfoot in having the same basic theories.

1. All hoax/misidentification 

2. A presently unidentified normal animal species

3. An existing exotic species

4. The realm of the 'beyond the normal' (paranormal)

As usual with us I am more open to the possibility of #4 from my belief in the paranormal from multiple other subjects. This gives #4 a lower hurdle to overcome. I believe that this is a universe complex beyond our understanding. I lean to a #4 understanding of Bigfoot actually. No opinion yet on these big cats.

You also include the following about paranormal big cat theories

"I utterly reject this totally, but as it happens I did see such a thing once, a huge black cat the size of a horse at least running across the skyline  80's. I can still see it now. Except of course I never saw any such thing, but I still have the childhood memory of doing so."

Now, utter rejection is kind of telling here with me. I can certainly understand strongly questioning.

 

The point about British big cats, and mystery cats in general, is that this is the only place in cryptozoology where we do have a body, we have several in fact. In short hard evidence. We've also got a plausible real world mechanism for them being there,  the actual phenomena is nothing like bigfoot.

Except for when things get distorted on the fringes things get very much like bigfoot. That happens when instead of just saying we do have evidence for alien cats having been loose periodically, we start saying things like 'killer big cats breeding in Britain and murdering our ponies', which happens a lot in the press. And when, like above,people make up absurd claims about seeing things which they probably know nothing about, and couldn't physically see anyway. Yet seem to have completely convinced themselves of. That's like bigfoot. 

Also when a paranormal explanations come onto the table for phenomena which are completely explainable in perfectly 'normal' ways, with no other reason than they feel like. That's like bigfoot too. 

As for my own sighting, of course I utterly reject it. That it could stem from anything external to my imagination is preposterous. What's more flexible, the imagination of a ten year old, or reality as we know it? How could anyone possibly even pose the question? 

Edited April 18, 2017 by oldrover

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

Not at all, I've stated quite clearly that I know for certain that

 there have been exotic cats recovered dead and alive from the British countryside. The largest of which was a puma.

But, I added the following

How they got there and how long they'd been there though is a different matter. 

As in I'm not convinced they were there long term, or at least I've never seen anything over the years to convince me that they are. 

And yes I do question the validity of the eye witness accounts when they're not physically possible. As I recommend you check, and I'm not being off hand here I mean it, by trying to make out the sort of detail at 200 meters that this guy thinks he can.

I don't doubt it's possible that there could be alien cat species in the UK, but if this is the sort of evidence we have to make decisions on I'm going to stick with not proven. Sorry. 

Edited for clarity

...again more confusion. You can't very well say that it's possible that big cats are there and then say that you doubt their existence cause they are an invasive species. How they got there is irrelevant. There are multiple sightings and they have been found dead (as you point out ), plus multiple photos. So how can you say 'not proven' what exactly are you referring to?

Edited April 18, 2017 by Captain Risky

[oldrover]

5 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

...again more confusion. You can't very well say that it's possible that big cats are there and then say that you doubt their existence cause they are an invasive species. How they got there is irrelevant. There are multiple sightings and they have been found dead (as you point out ), plus multiple photos. So I hen you say 'not proven' what exactly are you referring to?

Are you in Britain? I ask this to try and clarify what I'm going to say.

[back to earth]

11 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Father and son, 5, startled by two big cats near Welwyn Garden City

The 37-year-old man, who wished to remain anonymous, was on a customary evening walk around Tewin with his five-year-old son about six weeks ago when the toddler excitedly pointed into the distance and asked what it was he could see.

Standing in the open field about 400 metres away were two large “dusty, sandy coloured” big cats, coming to just below waist height, with long, dark tails. 

Startled, the observer said did not know what they were, but was “100 per cent” sure they were big cats from their movements.

http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/father-and-son-5-startled-by-two-big-cats-near-welwyn-garden-city-1-4941755

 

Anonymous report  eh ?     Did not know what they were ... but was 100% sure of what they were   ?  

Pffft ! 

[back to earth]

3 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

This bloody Yank has only vaguely heard about this before and now I have a bit of curiosity. I might need to hit the internet to get an idea of possible 'normal' and 'beyond the normal' theories as to what is going on. To start some chit-chat here, what is the most prevalent 'normal' and 'beyond the normal' theories for this phenomena?

Look , stop trying to make everything 'paranormal' ... even if its true ... tis a cat dude ... cat .   A big cat, a feral at, an escaped zoo animal, an escaped illegal pet ...   what makes any of this 'paranormal '  ....   Parapoppa ? 

You want them to be 'ghost cats' dont you ? 

[back to earth]

3 hours ago, oldrover said:

Well, the history of big cats (and by that I'm not just talking about the 'true' big cats or Pantherines, or large cats like pumas [which aren't taxonomically big cats], but any exotic non native species) being suspected of being at large in the British countryside has a long history. Darren Naish, Max Blake, and others published on a lynx shot in the wild in Devon in 1903, details here

 https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/edwardian-lynx-from-england/

There are other earlier examples I'm sure, but cats, mystery, or domestic are not my thing so I can't point to specific examples, but I'm sure I've got got a few half remembered references knocking about in my head somewhere.

As a matter of interest Darren Naish is a publishing scientist, and does or did believe that the evidence for large cats living wild over here is persuasive. Here is an old article of his outlining his position, http://darrennaish.blogspot.co.uk/2006/02/british-big-cats-how-good-or-bad-is.html

I don't know what the evidence he's citing is because as I say, this isn't my thing, but I do know that a live puma was trapped in Scotland, in the 80's, and was given the name Felicity for some reason. Here's a page that details this and some other cases  http://scotcats.online.fr/abc/photoalbum/cannich.html I don't vouch for the website because I only skimmed through it. 

I also know of at least one leopard skull found (I think near or on Bodmin Moor, to which we will return, but again I have no idea if this was a publicity stunt). And that several exotic species have been shot across the British Isles over the years. 

The 'normal' theory for these hinges on releases/escapes of exotic pets. Back in the late 70's (78 I think) Mainland UK, IE Wales and England, not sure about Scotland, but definitely excluding Northern Ireland, passed the Dangerous Wild Animal Act. Essentially this regulated and licensed the private keeping of dangerous wild animals, pretty much what the name suggests really.  In the aftermath of which there were/are widespread rumours that a lot of people released large cats into the wild here. Every once in a while a story crops up in the press confessing or accusing someone else of these releases. 

Before this it was a free for all, you really could buy a lion from Harrods if you wanted, and you weren't required to meet any particular requirement for keeping them, still can in N.I as I understand it, or you could until much later anyway. There's a photo I can never find of a young woman strolling down a London street with an adult tiger on a dog lead. Things had to change.

There are stories of big cats loose over here from pretty much everywhere, in my country we have lots of places which we abbreviate to 'Bont', and just about every one of them has it's own 'beast of Bont'. My ex wife was convinced that her kitten was decapitated by her local mystery felid, the 'beast of Tonmawr'. See what I mean, they are everywhere but the most famous examples are the Surrey Puma (before my time), and the mega stars of the British big cat firmament the 'Beast of Bodmin Moor', and the 'Beast of Exmoor' (also before my time really). To be honest I'm not sure if they're supposed to be the same cat or different animals.

In 1983 the government sent a detachment of Royal Marines to shoot the beast. They did not, in fact they didn't fire a single round, but apparently some of them claimed to have seen it. My favourite story from this hunt was that one concerned local daubed 'DOG' in luminous paint on their Labrador before letting it out at night. 

I've seen more photographic evidence, stills and footage, from an array of witnesses, police included, and have never seen a single frame that stood up. As an aside another ex of mine had a brother who had his neighbourhood swarming with armed police after he was chased home by a lion (Old English Sheepdog), in his defense there was a circus in town about half a mile away and they did have lions. 

That's the 'normal', the 'not so normal' goes in two directions that I'm aware of firstly, there's the like of 'Cat Country' author Di Francis. She claims that the animals are not exotic escapees, but a previously uncatalogued species of British big cat. Too stupid to comment on any further. Francis' book is noteable for two things, firstly she shows the ex-spouse kitten beheading beast of Tonmawr in a full colour photo,  it's a tabby cat. But after that Francis does something nasty. A little girl disappeared somewhere in England, and despite the family asking her not to, she included this in her book and claimed the child was taken by one of her cats. Later of course the real creature that took the child confessed, and that was that. Nice one Di Francis, bet the family enjoyed you doing that.

The other direction it goes in is toward the 'black dog' zooform traditions we have over here, as in a more supernatural, elemental type phenomena. I utterly reject this totally, but as it happens I did see such a thing once, a huge black cat the size of a horse at least running across the skyline one new year's eve in the early 80's. I can still see it now. Except of course I never saw any such thing, but I still have the childhood memory of doing so. 

 

 

Great post - informative !    Similar (sort of ) dynamics happen here . One story is that after WWII some US forces on maneuvers here, one unit had a panther mascot that they somehow lost track of . 

Also the Aussie feral cat can get pretty big after a few generations 

 

 

'Paranormal'   black dog    ( not just any black dog   ... they have unusual features ; red flaming eyes, etc . is a common cross cultural tradition ; Harpur talks about this tradition's  varieties and significance in his 'Diamonic Reality'   book. 

[back to earth]

3 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

You've contradicted yourself. In post 14 you allude to the fact that it's probable that big cats are in rural and semi rural Britain... and now you're questioning the validity of the first hand eye witness. If big cats are out there then people will eventually see them and have close encounters. 

Nope, you made a logical blunder in your analysis of this - There was no contradiction at all .

Yes, there are many reasons a big cat could be seen in semi rural  Britain ... as you said  Oldrover alluded to its 'probability'  ... and many of us question the validity of the boy's account .

One can acknowledge the animals AND  analyse any accounts for validity.... cant one ? Or dotn you allow that ?

Does one HAVE TO believe every single account just because the animal might be out there?    Heaven knows why you think this way ?   Just to criticise people ? 

 

 

 

 

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

The point about British big cats, and mystery cats in general, is that this is the only place in cryptozoology where we do have a body, we have several in fact. In short hard evidence. We've also got a plausible real world mechanism for them being there,  the actual phenomena is nothing like bigfoot.

I am assuming here the cats were determined to be of known species. If so, nothing terribly interesting there I agree.

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

Except for when things get distorted on the fringes things get very much like bigfoot. That happens when instead of just saying we do have evidence for alien cats having been loose periodically, we start saying things like 'killer big cats breeding in Britain and murdering our ponies', which happens a lot in the press. And when, like above,people make up absurd claims about seeing things which they probably know nothing about, and couldn't physically see anyway. Yet seem to have completely convinced themselves of. That's like bigfoot. 

Also when a paranormal explanations come onto the table for phenomena which are completely explainable in perfectly 'normal' ways, with no other reason than they feel like. That's like bigfoot too. 

Now, logically there could be both exotic known species AND cryptids out there. I suspect other types of cryptids do exist so cryptic cat-like creatures in the UK would not be completely out of bounds to my thinking. I would need to judge the quantity, quality and consistency of the reports to form an opinion of course.

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

As for my own sighting, of course I utterly reject it. That it could stem from anything external to my imagination is preposterous. What's more flexible, the imagination of a ten year old, or reality as we know it? How could anyone possibly even pose the question? 

I have heard that argument made even with adults on every cryptid/paranormal/alien subject. I would not believe in a cryptid based on one ten-year old, but I could believe it possible after a study of the quantity, quality and consistency of a body of reports.

[back to earth]

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

First, thank you for a rather thorough introduction. The theories are much like our Bigfoot in having the same basic theories.

1. All hoax/misidentification 

2. A presently unidentified normal animal species

3. An existing exotic species

4. The realm of the 'beyond the normal' (paranormal)

No, why on earth should these reports of big cats out of place - be even considered anything like the paranormal ?

Just to please you ? And, they got nothing to do with Bigfoot at all , only in your mind so you can connect some type of paranormal element to them .

So we can eliminate your point 4 . 

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

As usual with us I am more open to the possibility of #4 from my belief in the paranormal from multiple other subjects.

As usual , you are trying to force the paranormal into it .

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

 

This gives #4 a lower hurdle to overcome

No ... it just makes it harder for you to jump your own hurdles .

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

. I believe that this is a universe complex beyond our understanding. I lean to a #4 understanding of Bigfoot actually. No opinion yet on these big cats.

It will come , be patient ... soon you believe ' paranormal big cats '

'paranormal big cats - everywhere ! "

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

You also include the following about paranormal big cat theories

"I utterly reject this totally, but as it happens I did see such a thing once, a huge black cat the size of a horse at least running across the skyline  80's. I can still see it now. Except of course I never saw any such thing, but I still have the childhood memory of doing so."

Now, utter rejection is kind of telling here with me. I can certainly understand strongly questioning.

 

So you do not utterly reject    "  a huge black cat the size of a horse at least running across the skyline   "

I didnt think you would       

[papageorge1]

22 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Look , stop trying to make everything 'paranormal' ... even if its true ... tis a cat dude ... cat .   A big cat, a feral at, an escaped zoo animal, an escaped illegal pet ...   what makes any of this 'paranormal '  ....   Parapoppa ? 

Old parapoppa (points for that), believes there could be paranormal big-cat things going on in the UK as I know some have claimed. That doesn't mean there couldn't also be these feral and escaped things too. I would need to study the quantity, quality and consistency of cryptic cat claims to hold an opinion. I am an open-minded skeptic on these subjects.

It won't be long until I'm labeled a total believer in cryptic big cats by the resident closed-minded skeptics.

[oldrover]

A fuller reply tomorrow. Work, as someone pointed out, it's the scurge of the drinking classes.

 

[papageorge1]

@old rover     @back to earth          All this hubbub sent me to the internet.  Here's a an Article

Stories from article"

Eileen Allen says that she caught sight of a “big black panther,”  as she described it, while she was visiting the area in the latter part of 1996. The overwhelming shock of seeing the immense beast staring intently in Allen’s direction, was nothing compared to the absolute terror that struck her when the creature suddenly vanished – and I do mean literally vanished – into thin-air, amid a sound that Allen described as “like an electricity cracking noise.” Unsurprisingly, Allen did not hang around and quickly left the woods. To this very day, she has never returned; nor does she have any plans to do so in the future, either.

 

Bob Parker experienced something very similar on the Cannock Chase in late 2000, while walking his dog on one particular Sunday morning. In this case, a large black cat came hurtling violently through the heather, skidded onto the pathway that Parker was following, and bounded off, apparently not at all bothered or concerned by the presence of either Parker or his little Corgi dog, Paddy. Of course, seeing a big cat was astounding enough in itself; but what happened next was just downright bizarre. Parker says that: “Me and the dog just froze solid. I couldn’t believe it; could not believe it. But when [the cat] got about fifty feet from us, it literally sort of dived at the ground. It sort of took a leap up and almost dive-bombed the path, and went right through and vanished, just like that. I know exactly how it sounds, so don’t tell me. But that’s exactly what happened: it was like it just melted into the path.”

 

Too early for me to have much of an opinion.

[back to earth]

I just found a report about a cat that growled so a guy threw a bottle at it and it grew bigger , so he went and got a gun and shot at it and then it grew as big as a panther, then it vanished .

 

You give me an animal, topic or subject and I bet you I can be be back in moments with a paranormal report about it .

Its pretty simple , one just  types the subject in the search box with 'paranormal' typed in front of it .

Okay ... maybe not  'orca'  or  'wilderbeast' .     

(Although searching for a paranormal wilderbeast in images  does  throw up a   big foot ;

 

 

But this is the wrong thread for that evidence .   

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, back to earth said:

You give me an animal, topic or subject and I bet you I can be be back in moments with a paranormal report about it .

So, I then suggest following parapoppa's advice to consider quantity, quality and consistency of reports. You don't want to believe everything or nothing of what you hear! Logic is your friend.

[Unusual Tournament]

12 hours ago, oldrover said:

Are you in Britain? I ask this to try and clarify what I'm going to say.

Nah mate, i'm in Australia.

[Matt221]

Here's one from a few miles from me 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2193984/Essex-Lion-picture-revealed-police-search-admit-probably-large-domestic-cat.html

Edited April 20, 2017 by Still Waters
Fixed source link

[oldrover]

9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Nah mate, i'm in Australia.

Right, I think I see where the confusion is coming from then, you won't be as familiar with our press and its history of screaming 'CAT!' every time a pony dies and gets gnawed on by scavengers. 

What I'm getting at is this, firstly as back to earth said, the fact is that it's definitely possible that alien big cats could live wild in the British Countryside. Whether they do or not is a different matter, but it's undoubted that if you chucked a leopard out of the back of a Landrover in Mid Wales, or the Scottish Highlands, that's quite possibly the last you'd see of it.  So, I'm saying 100% it's feasible. 

I'm also saying that it's 100% definite that alien cat species have been recovered from the British countryside. But, essentially what I'm asking is what does this really point to? Is it that alien cats are occasionally present, or that as per certain elements would have it that big cats are permanently  at large and are breeding here? 

It's obvious people will keep these animals, not so much the big 'big' cats, but certainly the smaller species. It's equally obvious that sometimes they'll escape or be released. That's why it really does matter how long these recovered specimens have been out in the wild, and how they got there. Do they get out on Monday and are captured the following Sunday? Or are have they been bred in the wild from escapees able to find other escapees of the same species?

The biggest known cat recovered was Felicity the Puma, up in the Scottish Highlands in 1980, but there's at least some suggestion that this was a hoax. I don't know I'm not saying I do, but it's a question that needs to be asked.

That's why you have to take a critical look at the evidence, to try and work out if it points one way or the other. So far it's on good authority that there have been large cats active at times here, but the evidence from the press is almost entirely utter crap. See the two examples we each posted. And better still the great post by Matt221 above. 

 

[oldrover]

21 hours ago, back to earth said:

Great post - informative !    Similar (sort of ) dynamics happen here . One story is that after WWII some US forces on maneuvers here, one unit had a panther mascot that they somehow lost track of . 

Also the Aussie feral cat can get pretty big after a few generations 

Thanks, I've heard about the Australian big cat phenomena, I've been chatting a bit recently with one of the lead investigators (he also does thylacines). By the way did you know that there's a sort of reverse version of the 'troop mascot big cat to Oz' story, namely a chap called Bluey Thompson, reportedly took a 'native tiger' with him to Egypt during WWI. Perhaps somewhere in the suburbs of Cairo there's some guy saying, 'no really now, my great grandfather swore that...' 

21 hours ago, back to earth said:

'Paranormal'   black dog    ( not just any black dog   ... they have unusual features ; red flaming eyes, etc . is a common cross cultural tradition ; Harpur talks about this tradition's  varieties and significance in his 'Diamonic Reality'   book. 

I've not read the book, but yes they do seem to share these features. One thing about these reports is that you hear they've been going on for centuries etc, but it always seems to be the same three or four that ever get recounted. 

 

22 hours ago, back to earth said:

even if its true ... tis a cat dude ... cat .   A big cat, a feral at, an escaped zoo animal, an escaped illegal pet ...

Exactly.

[oldrover]

16 hours ago, back to earth said:

I just found a report about a cat that growled so a guy threw a bottle at it and it grew bigger , so he went and got a gun and shot at it and then it grew as big as a panther, then it vanished .

I had a bin a bit like that, everytime I threw a can at it it got smaller.

[oldrover]

21 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I am assuming here the cats were determined to be of known species. If so, nothing terribly interesting there I agree.

Of course, a new cat species  from anywhere in the world would be international news. 

 

21 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Now, logically there could be both exotic known species AND cryptids out there. I suspect other types of cryptids do exist so cryptic cat-like creatures in the UK would not be completely out of bounds to my thinking. I would need to judge the quantity, quality and consistency of the reports to form an opinion of course.

No, really there couldn't be. An individual animal, maybe even a few small groups could remain undetected but not a entire unknown species. I've seen the reports but don't have them now or I'd pass them on, and I don't really know where to direct you. 

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

No, really there couldn't be. An individual animal, maybe even a few small groups could remain undetected but not a entire unknown species. I've seen the reports but don't have them now or I'd pass them on, and I don't really know where to direct you. 

You might have missed the point I was getting at. There might be large cats as regular animals out there but I was also getting at para-crypto cats could be out there too, like those suggested in my post #39. There might be multiple different things getting lumped together. That was my point.

[oldrover]

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

You might have missed the point I was getting at. There might be large cats as regular animals out there but I was also getting at para-crypto cats could be out there too, like those suggested in my post #39. There might be multiple different things getting lumped together. That was my point.

Yes, I see what you mean. I take 'cryptid' in a zoological sense, as opposed to 'zooform', neither of which I believe in, but I do acknowledge the difference. 

[papageorge1]

36 minutes ago, oldrover said:

Yes, I see what you mean. I take 'cryptid' in a zoological sense, as opposed to 'zooform', neither of which I believe in, but I do acknowledge the difference. 

'Zooform'  I learned a new word.