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N Korea Now Threatens US Aircraft Carriers


Lilly

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5 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

It is really getting irritating seeing all of these "warnings". "China warns North Korea", "U.S. Warns North Korea", "North Korea warns U.S.", "South Korea warns of possible conflict", etc. Seeing the word "warns" in the media is actually starting to make me cringe at this point.

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Ok, so this irritating menace has yet again fired off another missile, which btw is two within a week now. The porky one is also bragging about mass producing more ballistic missiles. When is China at least, going to take proper steps into squashing this bug once and for all...because he is certainly not going to stop. Is the world going to end up seeing thousands of people being killed in SK or Japan, if one of these missiles goes astray, before anything is done ?...

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I agree with most here.

Trump might be an imbicile, but thank God the military has the last say in this.

We know historically, that striking at an Aircraft Carrier, is equal to striking at the US mainland, since the number of americans on a Carrier equals a small town.

And yes, US is technically at war with NC still.

But, since China has gone on the side of those who want NC to behave, I think little Fat man in NC, will behave, and just continue to shoot fireworks out in the See of Japan...

 

Just my few cents

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The Chinese are not reliable allies here; any real war would be an American affair with some Japanese and some S Korean help.  The Chinese would sit back and wring their hands and call for peace but do nothing.

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15 minutes ago, Aardvark-DK said:

I agree with most here.

Trump might be an imbicile, but thank God the military has the last say in this.

We know historically, that striking at an Aircraft Carrier, is equal to striking at the US mainland, since the number of americans on a Carrier equals a small town.

And yes, US is technically at war with NC still.

But, since China has gone on the side of those who want NC to behave, I think little Fat man in NC, will behave, and just continue to shoot fireworks out in the See of Japan...

 

Just my few cents

Oh, dear, the N. Koreans giving Trump an excuse to attack is just what he must be praying for, as it would united the country behind him -- at least put into abeyance a lot of the activity now opposing him.

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14 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Oh, dear, the N. Koreans giving Trump an excuse to attack is just what he must be praying for, as it would united the country behind him -- at least put into abeyance a lot of the activity now opposing him.

Well, it's seen before in history, that if the President is having issues at home, he goes to war, so that the public focus shifts to something else...

 

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23 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

The Chinese are not reliable allies here; any real war would be an American affair with some Japanese and some S Korean help.  The Chinese would sit back and wring their hands and call for peace but do nothing.

I don't think the United States regards China as an ally here. Rather as a necessary partner in this because of the influence it had on Pyongyang. I use the past tense in this because the relationship between North Korea and China has deteriorated substantially. Russia is now stepping up by giving North Korea aid and trade and now the Chinese and the Russians are going to be at odds over what to do with Pyongyang, something which the Chinese are quite anxious about. And if Russia interferes any more, it risks it's relationship with China which has proven beneficial. And the Chinese might lean elsewhere. 

As for war: China would intervene. There's no doubt about that. They intervened to prop up Kim Il-sung's shattered army during the Korean War and they'd do so again for two reasons. Firstly, the Chinese want to ensure that as few refugees as possible come across the Yalu river because if war breaks out, millions of people will want out. Secondly, China doesn't want American military personnel on it's doorstep. Even if it's no longer the Kim family in power, China will maintain and authoritarian regime in place in Pyongyang because of that threat the United States presents. In fact, a puppet government in North Korea would be beneficial for all parties, because it'd remove any of the extremist hardliners in the Korean Worker's Party and the Korean People's Army and it'd be entirely dependent on China for aid and development, allowing for Chinese companies to reap the benefits of North Korea's mineral riches. 

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And again... it's not going to end well™

Nothing is halting Kim Jong-un's plans to be a nuclear power.

He's not threatened by his "imagined" enemies. He's not placated by his "friends" - the few, if any, he has left.

He's not deterred by confrontational language. He's not cajoled by friendly or neutral language, even coming from his perceived enemies, the South Korean and US Presidents.

He's not interested in international law.

He's not particularly affected by sanctions, unlike his population.

He WILL continue to develop his missile programs until they ARE capable of the range and destructive power he craves.

The best possible scenario I foresee in the coming months and years, is that he gets taken out with a precision strike, and hopefully the remaining powers in North Korea have been living in fear of him, and actually want an end to his madness as much as the rest of the world.

The worst case scenario is that nothing is done and he achieves his goals. I'd say then it's only a matter of time until his madness and paranoia do some real damage.

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I wonder if the idea of a sovereign and unified Peninsula has left the hearts and minds of Koreans

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On 5/23/2017 at 2:27 AM, MordorOrc said:

In fact, a puppet government in North Korea would be beneficial for all parties, because it'd remove any of the extremist hardliners in the Korean Worker's Party and the Korean People's Army and it'd be entirely dependent on China for aid and development, allowing for Chinese companies to reap the benefits of North Korea's mineral riches. 

I agree that this outcome might be best for the world - so long as China did not use a new puppet the same way they used the Kim dynasty.  The U.S., S.K. and the rest of the regional neighbors have no beef with N.K. save the fat boy's insistence on being paid to leave them alone.  China knows that the overthrow of that clan is only important to the U.S. now that they've actually become a real and growing threat.  Even now, when Xi might take Trump's generals seriously, he will want a trade for relinquishing his rabid dog in the south.  Trump can't give what isn't his to give so that leaves the economic issues between us and possibly  a lessening of the ties with Taiwan.  We'll either give them something they want or they'll be willing to let this thing go to the wall.  They have 150K troops waiting at the border and as soon as the storm breaks, they'll be moving south to grab all the territory they can for a buffer between themselves and whoever controls the rest of NK at the end of hostilities.  Of course, that's assuming that the corpulent criminal doesn't decide to gas or nuke a few million south Koreans on his way to meet the Ferryman.   If THAT happens then all bets are off and parts of the Korean peninsula might become a very quiet neighborhood for decades or more.  When it gets down to basics, this is a hand of poker between Xi and Trump and I'd rather Xi was thinking of the buffoon that pushes to the front of the line rather than a jug eared fool that apologized for America for 8 years.

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China would essentially be free to use a puppet regime however it wanted to. Propping up the current regime essentially isn't at all different to propping up another anti-Western regime. 

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https://timesofsandiego.com/military/2017/05/28/navy-orders-3rd-carrier-to-join-uss-carl-vinson-off-korea/

Quote

The Navy has ordered a third nuclear-powered aircraft carrier to join the San Diego-based USS Carl Vinson off North Korea amid heightened tensions.

 

3 carrier groups is a lot of firepower...

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11 hours ago, MordorOrc said:

China would essentially be free to use a puppet regime however it wanted to. Propping up the current regime essentially isn't at all different to propping up another anti-Western regime. 

You seem to be saying that we would accept some temporary sleight of hand to defuse a crisis, then return to the status quo ante with a different leader than lil Fat Boy?  Just a new name doing the same testing of ICBMs and nukes?

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1 hour ago, The Russian Hare said:

Indeed it is.  It isn't too often you see 3 of them in any kind of close proximity, either.  Usually, that's about more than just a "signal". Unless we are seeing Mattis winking at Xi from behind the Donald.  I'm no tactician but I do understand the absolute need for an overwhelming use of violent action at the outset of this conflict.  The lives of millions could be at stake if those few nukes and the much larger chemical stockpiles aren't already pre-targeted and hit in the opening hours.  It's probably too much to hope for, but a wave of B-2s dropping penetrator ordnance on Kim's bedroom some dark night when this all begins, might just stop it short of a long-term nightmare scenario that some are talking about.

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Theory time: North Korea is far more capable than we have been led to believe. It's fun to laugh at failed rocket launches, "fat boy Kim" and his goofy antics. They have been a running joke for a long time, based off the footage we have coming from North Korea.

But who is releasing all this test footage? If it's the NK leaders themselves, why the hell would they publicly show failure after failure? It doesn't make any sense and I fear we have lost sight of the bigger picture. When the US Army has a failed launch, they don't immediately go public - they continue to test until they have a beautiful, HD shot of American Military might in action, THEN they go public.

I think NK may have duping the West for a long time. At least, duping the public. I'm sure the American military has a much different view (literally,) as they have satellite surveillance, probably operatives on the ground, etc. If the NK leaders have to been able to control the minds and actions of an entire country so eloquently for generations, we should assume they have a very tactile, cunning and intelligent think-tank behind their decisions. Nothing happens by accident in NK. I believe that may include "failed" launches. They are presenting one goofy face to the world, while polishing capable weaponry behind the curtain.

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On 5/14/2017 at 2:18 AM, MordorOrc said:

Considering the last thing anyone wants is a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, why the hell would anyone welcome the idea of Iran acquiring nuclear weapons.

It's an excellent question.  Since they are the largest Shia nation among many Sunni neighbors and have an oft repeated goal of destroying, in their quaint phraseology the "Great Satan" (America) and the "Little Satan" (Israel), one would wonder who on earth would pick such a one-sided fight, no?  Seriously, consider it a moment.  They are already in proxy wars with S.A. in Yemen and Syria.  They have been using "advisers" to direct militias in Iraq.  In fact, we just recently incinerated a number of them after they violated a "de-confliction" zone in Syria, near the Jordanian border.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-us-airstrike-in-syria-20170520-story.html

Since these are FACTS and it is useless to deny that Iran is the aggressor in the region, a better question might be, what is the ultimate goal they are pursuing, a goal that could bring the wrath of the U.S., Israel, S.A., and several of the smaller Gulf States into a devastating war?  If you have a rational explanation for that, I'd listen.

My point is simple and the events on the ground give it credibility to an unbiased mind.  The Ayatollahs are NOT rational men.  They are struggling for hegemony in the region, not for more wealth but to stage a "final battle" against the Jews of Israel and the US.  I don't just make this stuff up, you know?  Do a little reading with an open mind.  It doesn't require YOU to believe in Shia eschatology or any religion.  If you look into the motives of a person you are much more likely to understand the game they are playing.  Their short term goal in Syria and Iraq is to establish and secure a land bridge from their border to the area of the Golan.  Now why, do you reckon, they'd want the Golan?

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On 5/28/2017 at 9:30 PM, LV-426 said:

And again... it's not going to end well™

Nothing is halting Kim Jong-un's plans to be a nuclear power.

He's not threatened by his "imagined" enemies. He's not placated by his "friends" - the few, if any, he has left.

He's not deterred by confrontational language. He's not cajoled by friendly or neutral language, even coming from his perceived enemies, the South Korean and US Presidents.

He's not interested in international law.

He's not particularly affected by sanctions, unlike his population.

He WILL continue to develop his missile programs until they ARE capable of the range and destructive power he craves.

The best possible scenario I foresee in the coming months and years, is that he gets taken out with a precision strike, and hopefully the remaining powers in North Korea have been living in fear of him, and actually want an end to his madness as much as the rest of the world.

The worst case scenario is that nothing is done and he achieves his goals. I'd say then it's only a matter of time until his madness and paranoia do some real damage.

You summed it up succinctly and precisely.  The only real hope for thousands of U.S. personnel and possibly a million or more South Koreans in Seoul is the chance that a successful decapitation strike could paralyze that regime and lead to the military stepping away from a prolonged conflict.  Once they begin using any WMD, however, they will assume they'd receive no mercy from a post- war tribunal and so would have little, personally, to lose by fighting to the end.  I think it's time to stop focusing so much on the rabid dog and turn our attention to the hand that's been holding its chain.  If this thing continues to escalate and Xi does nothing to stop his client, we should make overtures to the S.K., Japanese, and Taiwanese governments for permission to base nuclear-capable cruise missiles and or a THAAD type interceptor system on their soil.  Once we knew which governments would accept, the president could have a chat (while he's having a lovely piece of chocolate cake) with Xi and explain that direct conflict between the U.S. and the Middle Kingdom wouldn't be to anyone's benefit and that if we were going to lose thousands of troops on the Peninsula, China would also pay a very heavy price.  Such weapons would effectively bottle him up in his own territory.  They'd be called defensive but would be seen as a first-strike capability for his adversaries.  We could even pull a Khruschev and set them up before he finds out about their presence, then bargain for their removal.  This is high-stakes negotiation and Trump has a reputation for being pretty good at that game.

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2 hours ago, and then said:

You seem to be saying that we would accept some temporary sleight of hand to defuse a crisis, then return to the status quo ante with a different leader than lil Fat Boy?  Just a new name doing the same testing of ICBMs and nukes?

 

Might be better to tolerate a run-of-the-mill dictator with no nuclear aspirations rather than a cult leader like the Kims, lesser of two evils and all that, just my opinion

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On 2017-05-22 at 2:07 AM, Frank Merton said:

The Chinese are not reliable allies here; any real war would be an American affair with some Japanese and some S Korean help.  The Chinese would sit back and wring their hands and call for peace but do nothing.

You could be onto something there, but again I`m just an armchair general.

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3 hours ago, Lilly said:

I idea that North Korea could secretly be more capable than we think gives me the creeps.

As it should. An enemy that is as cruel as they are intelligent? It is just a theory, though. The failed launch videos used to be funny to me until I started thinking about where they came from and why they even exist. If the NK Govt released them willingly, there is only one explanation, IMO

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13 hours ago, Lilly said:

I idea that North Korea could secretly be more capable than we think gives me the creeps.

Paper Tiger. North Korea gives off the impression that it is capable to hide the fact that the military has serious shortcomings. 

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