The Caspian Hare Posted April 25, 2017 #1 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Canada's largest province is experimenting with giving poor people a basic income with no strings attached. The three-year study will test whether this basic income is better than current social welfare programmes. Randomly selected participants living in three communities in Ontario will be given at least C$16,989 ($12,600, £9,850) a year to live on. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39675442 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted April 25, 2017 #2 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Not just to replace welfare. I've been reading about how countries are considering it for the future when automation makes the human workforce obsolete. Basically paying it's citizens to be consumers and taxing the production of the robots to continue the economy. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted April 25, 2017 #3 Share Posted April 25, 2017 It is going to be the way of the future, because if people don't get money with the mass unemployment that is going to happen. There will be revolution. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnchorSteam Posted April 25, 2017 #4 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Do they make any allowance for people who WANT to do something with their lives? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Use your brain Posted April 25, 2017 #5 Share Posted April 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Gromdor said: Not just to replace welfare. I've been reading about how countries are considering it for the future when automation makes the human workforce obsolete. Basically paying it's citizens to be consumers and taxing the production of the robots to continue the economy. Can I have the reading material please? That is the sort of logical, hypothetical thinking that I crave. You can message me the link if you don't want to post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted April 25, 2017 #6 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said: Do they make any allowance for people who WANT to do something with their lives? Yes.. their taxes will rise to pay for those who don't want to work thinking robots will magically replace the workforce in all sectors. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWoo7 Posted April 25, 2017 #7 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Thanato said: It is going to be the way of the future, because if people don't get money with the mass unemployment that is going to happen. There will be revolution. If that's correct in the states, .... revolution for sure. Hard core working folks won't stand for it, well HA! TO THE CONTRARY! there again ... for the little mexico state its already happened and there's no up roar. Edited April 25, 2017 by MWoo7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted April 25, 2017 #8 Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 hours ago, acidhead said: Yes.. their taxes will rise to pay for those who don't want to work thinking robots will magically replace the workforce in all sectors. To claim that all people who doesnt have work are people who dont want to work is a one-eyed and ignorant view of the situation. Industry 4.0 will and is killing a lot of jobs because thats the simple mission of the process, means, to raise the output and to lower the needed amount of (payed) manpower. This process isnt limited to production only, where robots are needed, it has also effects on the service industry and will have a much bigger effect in this industry, and therefore on the amount of needed manpower, in future by the fast development in the field of AI. The basic income is often understood, and it seems by you as well, as to be an income to make the live of people more comfortable on the shoulders of others, but it isnt. It is fact by math that the number of needed manpower on the labour markets, related to to the population, is decreasing. And it is also fact that politics use the number of jobs available as a measured value but that value isnt giving a clear picture. Example: an individual has a low payed 40hrs/month job and needs additional money from the social system. In the statistics, this person is listed and counted as to be employed but the job alone cannot feed the person well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted April 25, 2017 #9 Share Posted April 25, 2017 3 hours ago, acidhead said: Yes.. their taxes will rise to pay for those who don't want to work thinking robots will magically replace the workforce in all sectors. In a very short while you will have about 3.5 million people out of work because it's cheaper, safer, and quicker to use Robots then people when it comes to driving transport trucks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 25, 2017 #10 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) that may work on small scale, like a province or in a small country like Brunei, but on the big scale with no population control, good luck. iirc san fran. tried that many years ago, with bums, they thought giving them money will make them clean up, get their sht together and get out of the hole, well they only dug deeper in, more bums from all over the country came for free money, not many if at all, thought about turning their life around. Edited April 25, 2017 by aztek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted April 25, 2017 #11 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I think this is a great idea. If for nothing else than research. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted April 25, 2017 #12 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, aztek said: that may work on small scale, like a province or in a small country like Brunei, but on the big scale with no population control, good luck. iirc san fran. tried that many years ago, with bums, they thought giving them money will make them clean up, get their sht together and get out of the hole, well they only dug deeper in, more bums from all over the country came for free money, not many if at all, thought about turning their life around. It will be the mainstream source of income before the end of the century simply because there will be very few jobs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 25, 2017 #13 Share Posted April 25, 2017 23 minutes ago, Thanato said: It will be the mainstream source of income before the end of the century simply because there will be very few jobs. no it wont, it will be failed experiment. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted April 25, 2017 #14 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 minute ago, aztek said: no it wont, it will be failed experiment. Then there will be a lot of unemployed people with no income and that will be a very bad thing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 25, 2017 #15 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, Thanato said: Then there will be a lot of unemployed people with no income and that will be a very bad thing. it will be a lot worst than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatecraft Posted April 25, 2017 #16 Share Posted April 25, 2017 What a waste of money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 25, 2017 #17 Share Posted April 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, hatecraft said: What a waste of money. especially since we have already tried few free money ideas and it fails in every way. our welfare is basically that. watch them Canadians pop more kids to get more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted April 25, 2017 #18 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Thanato said: It will be the mainstream source of income before the end of the century simply because there will be very few jobs. Millions of gullible retro-utopia believers who believe in millions of new jobs in the car/mining and steel industry dont agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 25, 2017 #19 Share Posted April 25, 2017 no they do not, they wont agree with a liberal democrats that think the future is in handouts. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Unicorn Posted April 25, 2017 #20 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thanato said: Then there will be a lot of unemployed people with no income and that will be a very bad thing. Yes, that's when crime out of necessity starts and makes it worse for everyone. If you'd had a basic pay that brings spending to the local small businesses instead of them closing. I remember when Bush gave $800 tax credit and how that little amount boosted spending. A basic pay would do the same thing. Having discretional money to spend helps the overall economy everywhere. I think Canada has a good idea to try. Edited April 25, 2017 by White Unicorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted April 25, 2017 #21 Share Posted April 25, 2017 33 minutes ago, toast said: Millions of gullible retro-utopia believers who believe in millions of new jobs in the car/mining and steel industry dont agree with you. Well they are not looking at the signs of the times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 25, 2017 #22 Share Posted April 25, 2017 lmao, will talk in 5 years, will see who is behind times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted April 25, 2017 #23 Share Posted April 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Thanato said: Then there will be a lot of unemployed people with no income and that will be a very bad thing. That is fine with me, helping people out in need. But, how does the 17000$/Y compare to the folks who worked all their life and now receive pension? They don't get that much. I am quiet a way from that age but starting to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A rather obscure Bassoon Posted April 25, 2017 #24 Share Posted April 25, 2017 18 hours ago, Gromdor said: Basically paying it's citizens to be consumers and taxing the production of the robots to continue the economy. Provided people would be able to boost this with other Income because here in Ontario 16,000 CAD would just about cover housing expenses and the most expensive Hydro in N. America unless they plan on consuming from the local food bank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted April 25, 2017 #25 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, odas said: That is fine with me, helping people out in need. But, how does the 17000$/Y compare to the folks who worked all their life and now receive pension? They don't get that much. I am quiet a way from that age but starting to think. Depends on the pension. When I'm done when I'm 54 I'll be getting 50% of my last 3 years work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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