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Canada to experiment w/universal basic income


The Caspian Hare

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Canada's largest province is experimenting with giving poor people a basic income with no strings attached.

The three-year study will test whether this basic income is better than current social welfare programmes.

Randomly selected participants living in three communities in Ontario will be given at least C$16,989 ($12,600, £9,850) a year to live on.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39675442

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Not just to replace welfare.  I've been reading about how countries are considering it for the future when automation makes the human workforce obsolete.  Basically paying it's citizens to be consumers and taxing the production of the robots to continue the economy.

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It is going to be the way of the future, because if people don't get money with the mass unemployment that is going to happen. There will be revolution.

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Do they make any allowance for people who WANT to do something with their lives?

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3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Not just to replace welfare.  I've been reading about how countries are considering it for the future when automation makes the human workforce obsolete.  Basically paying it's citizens to be consumers and taxing the production of the robots to continue the economy.

Can I have the reading material please? That is the sort of logical, hypothetical thinking that I crave. You can message me the link if you don't want to post it.

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1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

Do they make any allowance for people who WANT to do something with their lives?

Yes.. their taxes will rise to pay for those who don't want to work thinking robots will magically replace the workforce in all sectors.  

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4 hours ago, Thanato said:

It is going to be the way of the future, because if people don't get money with the mass unemployment that is going to happen. There will be revolution.

If that's correct in the states, .... revolution for sure.  Hard core working folks won't stand for it, well HA! TO THE CONTRARY! there again ... for the little mexico state its already happened and there's no up roar.

Edited by MWoo7
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2 hours ago, acidhead said:

Yes.. their taxes will rise to pay for those who don't want to work thinking robots will magically replace the workforce in all sectors.

To claim that all people who doesnt have work are people who dont want to work is a one-eyed and ignorant view of the situation. Industry 4.0 will and is killing a lot of jobs because thats the simple mission of the process, means, to raise the output and to lower the needed amount of (payed) manpower. This process isnt limited to production only, where robots are needed, it has also effects on the service industry and will have a much bigger effect in this industry, and therefore on the amount of needed manpower, in future by the fast development in the field of AI.

The basic income is often understood, and it seems by you as well, as to be an income to make the live of people more comfortable on the shoulders of others, but it isnt. It is fact by math that the number of needed manpower on the labour markets, related to to the population, is decreasing. And it is also fact that politics use the number of jobs available as a measured value but that value isnt giving a clear picture. Example: an individual has a low payed 40hrs/month job and needs additional money from the social system. In the statistics, this person is listed and counted as to be employed but the job alone cannot feed the person well.

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3 hours ago, acidhead said:

Yes.. their taxes will rise to pay for those who don't want to work thinking robots will magically replace the workforce in all sectors.  

In a very short while you will have about 3.5 million people out of work because it's cheaper, safer, and quicker to use Robots then people when it comes to driving transport trucks.

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that may work on small scale, like a province or in   a small country like Brunei, but on the big scale with no population control, good luck.

 

iirc san fran. tried that many years ago, with bums, they thought giving them money will make them clean up, get their sht together and get out of the hole, well they only dug deeper in, more bums from all over the country came for free money, not many if at all, thought about turning their life around. 

Edited by aztek
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I think this is a great idea.   If for nothing else than research. 

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1 hour ago, aztek said:

that may work on small scale, like a province or in   a small country like Brunei, but on the big scale with no population control, good luck.

 

iirc san fran. tried that many years ago, with bums, they thought giving them money will make them clean up, get their sht together and get out of the hole, well they only dug deeper in, more bums from all over the country came for free money, not many if at all, thought about turning their life around. 

It will be the mainstream source of income before the end of the century simply because there will be very few jobs.

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23 minutes ago, Thanato said:

It will be the mainstream source of income before the end of the century simply because there will be very few jobs.

no it wont, it will be failed experiment.  

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1 minute ago, aztek said:

no it wont, it will be failed experiment.  

Then there will be a lot of unemployed people with no income and that will be a very bad thing.

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Just now, Thanato said:

Then there will be a lot of unemployed people with no income and that will be a very bad thing.

it will be a lot worst than that

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4 minutes ago, hatecraft said:

What a waste of money.

especially since we have already tried few free money ideas and it fails in every way.  our welfare  is basically that. 

watch them Canadians pop more kids to get more money. 

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1 hour ago, Thanato said:

It will be the mainstream source of income before the end of the century simply because there will be very few jobs.

Millions of gullible retro-utopia believers who believe in millions of new jobs in the car/mining and steel industry dont agree with you.

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1 hour ago, Thanato said:

Then there will be a lot of unemployed people with no income and that will be a very bad thing.

Yes, that's when crime out of necessity starts and makes it worse for everyone. If you'd had a basic pay that brings spending to the local small businesses instead of them closing. 

 

I remember when Bush gave $800 tax credit and how that little amount boosted spending. A basic pay would do the same thing. Having discretional money to spend helps the overall economy everywhere. 

I think Canada has a good idea to try.

Edited by White Unicorn
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33 minutes ago, toast said:

Millions of gullible retro-utopia believers who believe in millions of new jobs in the car/mining and steel industry dont agree with you.

Well they are not looking at the signs of the times.

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5 hours ago, Thanato said:

Then there will be a lot of unemployed people with no income and that will be a very bad thing.

That is fine with me, helping people out in need. But, how does the 17000$/Y compare to the folks who worked all their life and now receive pension? They don't get that much. I am quiet a way from that age but starting to think.

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18 hours ago, Gromdor said:

  Basically paying it's citizens to be consumers and taxing the production of the robots to continue the economy.

Provided people would be able to boost this with other Income because here in Ontario 16,000 CAD would just about cover housing expenses and the most expensive Hydro in N. America unless they plan on consuming from the local food bank.

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1 hour ago, odas said:

That is fine with me, helping people out in need. But, how does the 17000$/Y compare to the folks who worked all their life and now receive pension? They don't get that much. I am quiet a way from that age but starting to think.

Depends on the pension. When I'm done when I'm 54 I'll be getting 50% of my last 3 years work.

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