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The Forgotten Genocide of Armenians


ellapenella

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7 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

I agree with what you've said about wanton religious violence. And no one holds any moral high ground. But i think what happened to the Jews and Armenians in the 20th century is somehow different. These were specific groups of people that were targeted for nationalist reasons. They were vulnerable and exposed to much discrimination. The extermination of these groups was systematic and ordered from the highest echelons of power. We are talking about the 20th century. At time when civilisation was supposed to be progressing an fundamental human rights were being recognised and championed. Instead, we regressed backwards into barbarism. But what happened to these Jews and Armenians is no way a reflection on the German or Turkish people. But accepting liability for past actions is the only way something like this will never happen again. 

Germany recognised the wrongs done to the Jews. I can't see why Turkey can't the same?     

It's actually a quite complex topic. 

To an extent what you say is true, but we don't have to confuse our today's standards with the ones from 100 years ago, even if they look so close to ours. 

It's the same thing I told Ella. 

 

At that time the seeds for our worldview were planted, but in many instances European and Western societies were still far behind. 

And don't fall in the error to include the Ottoman Empire inside the "West". 

If you think about it, in basically the whole world universal suffrage didn't exist yet (in Britain women got to vote only after WWI), we were still in the European colonial period and a lot of wars were fought over expanding territories. 

Child labour wasn't an issue, if you think that only roughly 60 years before in France the law limited child labour in factories a the age of EIGHT and in England to TEN years old if in the mines. 

The Boer Republics had racially exclusive laws and in the US black people didn't have easier lives.

In Italy the honor killing (that is killing the adulterous wife and/or her lover, the daughter or the sister) was mitigated compared to normal murder, being sanctioned only from 3 to 7 years of jail (that meant in many instances the murder got away with not even one day spent behind the bars) and was abolished only in 1981

 

If you think about it, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted only in 1948. 

 

Regarding the Ottoman Empire, I'll expand a bit on my previous post. 

While it's true that technically the Ottomans lost the war like the Germans did (they lost WWI) right after the war the empire fell and a nationalistic movement arose, led by Atatürk, that established a secular and modern democratic republic, what we know today as Turkey (at least, what's left of it). 

This came at the expense of the Armenians, meaning that in the wake of building a new and strong republic, a lot of dirt was swept under the rug.

In exchange we had for almost a century one of the  most secular Muslim countries in the world. 

 

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1955

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Emmett Louis Till (July 25, 1941 – August 28, 1955) was an African-American teenager who was lynched in Mississippi at the age of 14 in 1955 after being falsely accused of flirting with a white woman. The brutality of his murder and the fact that his killers were acquitted drew attention to the long history of violent persecution of African Americans in the United States. Till posthumously became an icon of the Civil Rights Movement.

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The death of Emmett Till - Aug 28, 1955 - HISTORY.com

www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-death-of-emmett-till
While visiting family in Money, Mississippi, 14-year-old Emmett Till, an African American from Chicago, is brutally murdered for flirting with a white woman four days earlier. ... Emmett’s African American companions, disbelieving him, dared Emmett to ask the white woman sitting ...

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Emmett Till - - Biography.com

www.biography.com/people/emmett-till-507515
The brutal abduction and murder of 14-year-old Emmett Till on August 28, 1955, galvanized the emerging Civil Rights Movement. ... Fourteen-year-old Emmett Till was visiting relatives in Money, Mississippi, on August 24, 1955, when he was accused of whistling at Carolyn Bryant, a white ...
Death Date‎: ‎August 28‎, ‎1955
Education‎: ‎McCosh Grammar School
Birth Date‎: ‎July 25‎, ‎1941

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Emmett Till | 100 Photographs | The Most Influential Images of All Time

100photos.time.com/photos/emmett-till-david-jackson
In August 1955, Emmett Till, a black teenager from Chicago, was visiting relatives in Mississippi when he stopped at Bryant's Grocery and Meat Market. There he ..
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Woman Linked to 1955 Emmett Till Murder Tells Historian Her Claims ...

Jan 27, 2017 - For six decades, she has been the silent woman linked to one of the most notorious crimes in the nation's history, the lynching of Emmett Till, ...

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2017

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On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 9:53 PM, Captain Risky said:

I'm saddens that you would think so little about the Armenian Genocide and somehow demean it as nor as worthy of the title when nothing could be further from the truth. Read the quote i have provided...

Our strength consists in our speed and in our brutality. Genghis Khan led millions of women and children to slaughter – with premeditation and a happy heart. History sees in him solely the founder of a state. It’s a matter of indifference to me what a weak western European civilization will say about me. I have issued the command – and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad – that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness – for the present only in the East – with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks to-day of the annihilation of the Armenians?[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Obersalzberg_Speech

Bolded: The inspiration for the Jewish genocide was the Armenian genocide. 

I say the ottoman empire exercide a genocide on the Armenians. Period.

However this was not the inspiration forthe Jewish genocide. The inspiration came from a thousand year old hate in europe towards the jews. Spain, England, france, germany they all have killed and forcibly christianized jews way before the nazis. Period.

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I wouldn't say that the Armenian genocide was forgotten.  I think that a large portion of the population just didn't care about that history until they discovered that it suit their religious/political agenda.

My Cajun/Armenian Air Force buddy certainly didn't forget.  He'd tell the story to people when asked. So, it's not like it was a big hidden secret.

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On 4/27/2017 at 2:31 PM, Imaginarynumber1 said:

The UN's definition of genocide has remained the same since 1948. The actions of the Ottoman Empire against the Armenians easily meets this definition.

The links are trash. The second link is just denial site in the same vain as holocaust denial.

 

Thank you for clearing up my mistake and mistaken understanding of the definition.  I spoke of a definition I had never actually committed to memory.  I stand corrected.

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3 hours ago, odas said:

However this was not the inspiration forthe Jewish genocide.

I agree that Hitler didn't seem to be motivated to his final solution because of the Armenian genocide but from his own mouth, he points to the lack of world reaction to it as sort of an indication that he didn't have to worry about what he was going to do.  That particular speech is memorialized at the US Holocaust museum in DC.

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2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

I wouldn't say that the Armenian genocide was forgotten.  I think that a large portion of the population just didn't care about that history until they discovered that it suit their religious/political agenda.

My Cajun/Armenian Air Force buddy certainly didn't forget.  He'd tell the story to people when asked. So, it's not like it was a big hidden secret.

Which portion of the population are you talking about... the Armenian or Turkish?

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3 hours ago, odas said:

I say the ottoman empire exercide a genocide on the Armenians. Period.

However this was not the inspiration forthe Jewish genocide. The inspiration came from a thousand year old hate in europe towards the jews. Spain, England, france, germany they all have killed and forcibly christianized jews way before the nazis. Period.

...part of your post I agree with even thou hate towards the Jew was around before the Armenian genocide... the Turks got away with it and that's what made the final solution so palatable to Hitler. 

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29 minutes ago, and then said:

Thank you for clearing up my mistake and mistaken understanding of the definition.  I spoke of a definition I had never actually committed to memory.  I stand corrected.

You know I still love you.

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On 30/4/2017 at 3:45 PM, Ellapennella said:

Christianity & Judaism are always persecuted in this world by the same like minded people.

What kind of mind or what like-minded people are you referring too?

Christians and Jews did not persecute each other?

 

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17 hours ago, and then said:

I agree that Hitler didn't seem to be motivated to his final solution because of the Armenian genocide but from his own mouth, he points to the lack of world reaction to it as sort of an indication that he didn't have to worry about what he was going to do.  That particular speech is memorialized at the US Holocaust museum in DC.

You are correct. Hitler thought he could get away with it and he almost did. Let'sface the ugly truth that the world realy did not care to much what the nazis did until it was to late. The world did not care about the Armenians either. The world looked away in Bosnia, Ruwanda and now Syria. 

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14 minutes ago, odas said:

You are correct. Hitler thought he could get away with it and he almost did. Let'sface the ugly truth that the world realy did not care to much what the nazis did until it was to late. The world did not care about the Armenians either. The world looked away in Bosnia, Ruwanda and now Syria

And in Darfur, South Sudan, Cambodia, Laos, Chechnya, China, with the Kurds, etc. 

The list unfortunately is long. 

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31 minutes ago, Van Gorp said:

Last bot not least: Palestine.

People see what they want to see.

So much talk about the ottoman turks but noone likes to mention who did the first known largscale humanitarian operation in known history - yes the ville ottoman turks when they sent flottilas to help rescue Jews of Spain. Brought them to safety to the balkans and palestine. 

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18 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Which portion of the population are you talking about... the Armenian or Turkish?

The world in general and Americans in particular.  The Armenians and Turks aren't going to forget any time soon.

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Well it been nearly 100 years. no one has forgotten it yet.

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3 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Well it been nearly 100 years. no one has forgotten it yet.

I believe the more pertinent point here is, 'What' is 'How' is this remembered by those that chose to remember what they wants to be remembered and why ...

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1 hour ago, third_eye said:

I believe the more pertinent point here is, 'What' is 'How' is this remembered by those that chose to remember what they wants to be remembered and why ...

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...i would think that on a humanitarian level... as people it should be recorded and remembered as a reminder to all things evil and how they should never happen again. On the Armenian level i think they deserve the event to be acknowledged and restitution and compensation paid.  

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1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

...i would think that on a humanitarian level...

Good for you ... just try expanding 'humanitarian' to define just that little bit more than plainly political and repugnant religious sentiments ...

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... as people it should be recorded and remembered as a reminder to all things evil and how they should never happen again.

Evil on whose terms ? And yet it is clearly happening day in day out nowadays, conveniently 'forgotten' just because those such as your ilk wants to blame things in the past with not so convincing propositions as 'solutions' for all future avoidance of the matter.

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On the Armenian level i think they deserve the event to be acknowledged and restitution and compensation paid.  

With what ? Your pound of flesh or your barrels of blood ?

... and who by for that matter ... You are going about this as if wiping some pointedly senseless slate clean as to your recommendations is some form of answer ...

the answer is to cease ans stop circumstances such as these from occurring ... lying about the past to suit some Religious Political Agenda just perpetuates the madness.

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9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Well it been nearly 100 years. no one has forgotten it yet.

It's only the Turks who deny it. The rest of the world is well aware of it. 

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2 hours ago, FLOMBIE said:

It's only the Turks who deny it. The rest of the world is well aware of it. 

Kurds had guts to admit genocide. With Turkey sliding into dictatorship, I can't see any chances for Turks to admit genocide in foreseeable future.

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15 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Kurds had guts to admit genocide. With Turkey sliding into dictatorship, I can't see any chances for Turks to admit genocide in foreseeable future.

There is no way that is going to happen. Germany has officially recognized the genocide last year, and Turkey didn't take it all too well. 

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