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Uncle Sam

This latest Trump-Russia Leak, Coup?

86 posts in this topic

This definitely smells like a attempt to overthrow to current elected official and replace him with another...

Quote

 

First, let's be clear: President Trump has been sloppy, arrogant, and just plain misguided plenty of times during his short tenure in office — including the way he handled the firing of FBI Director James Comey and the hiring and firing of National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. And if he did unnecessarily compromise the source of the sensitive information he shared with the Russians, shame on him.

But a president cannot be removed from office for arrogance and sloppiness. The Constitution sets specific grounds for impeachment. They are "treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors." To be impeached and removed from office, the House and Senate must find that the official committed one of these acts.


[url=http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/16/this-latest-trump-russia-leak-smells-like-a-coup-attempt-commentary.html?__source=yahoo|finance|headline|headline|story&par=yahoo&doc=104472999&yptr=yahoo]Potential Coop?[/url]

 

 

 

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The misdemeanors part is interesting.  Apparently they wanted our president to be a man of impeccable standards and honor to put that in.  Considering misdemeanors are literally "lesser crimes".

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35 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

This definitely smells like a attempt to overthrow to current elected official and replace him with another...

Absolutely!  It's called treason and the anti-Trump crowd needs to be careful or the swamp is going to get drained sooner than expected.  If this was a dictatorship, the appropriate action would be clear.

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"treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors."

imo left vague to make it possible to impeach for any reason, but the opposing party must be careful what precedents they set while doing so or it may bite them in the rear when the shoe is on the other foot.

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You do realize that a "coup" is a brilliantly executed strategy or  an abrupt change of power.  Neither is a bad/illegal thing..........  Unless you are on the side abruptly losing power, I guess.

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2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

You do realize that a "coup" is a brilliantly executed strategy or  an abrupt change of power.  Neither is a bad/illegal thing..........  Unless you are on the side abruptly losing power, I guess.

When the Left get inept and desperate enough, I wouldn't put it past them.

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Actually, it's illegal to attempt to overthrow the United States Government by force....very illegal.

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16 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Actually, it's illegal to attempt to overthrow the United States Government by force....very illegal.

You are thinking coup de etat.  And yes that is illegal.  What's happening to Trump isn't involving guns but political daggers. 

Do I think what is going on is a coup?  Yup.

Is it illegal or bad?  No.

Being a strong leader means being able to weather political storms. 

I know "snowflake" is a label coined by conservatives, but in the mere 100+ days of this presidency, I have seen tweets and actions from Trump that gives me the impression that he is a fragile snowflake.  A big delicate ego that is too easily bruised to the point of him doing foolish and self destructive things.  It is no wonder to me that the establishment is starting to eat him up like the sharks they are.  He will either learn and straighten up or he will fall. 

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20 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Actually, it's illegal to attempt to overthrow the United States Government by force....very illegal.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government... But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." - From The Declaration of Independence

Our Founding Fathers thought differently. And in my opinion it's not the Presidents that have caused the need for government change, it's the congress. For to long have the millionaires been in control.

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NYC real estate developers generally aren't the fragile snowflake types...usually quite the opposite. Time will tell I suspect. IMO the first thing Trump needs to do is to pull out the hatchet and start cleaning house. If he doesn't have the testicular fortitude to do this then IMO he's doomed.

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3 minutes ago, Odin11 said:

 

Our Founding Fathers thought differently. And in my opinion it's not the Presidents that have caused the need for government change, it's the congress. For to long have the millionaires been in control.

The colonial rule by England was not deemed a duly elected government by those founding fathers. So, it doesn't really apply to overthrowing the current US government.

Now, let's see what US Law has to say about this: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

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7 minutes ago, Odin11 said:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government... But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." - From The Declaration of Independence

Our Founding Fathers thought differently. And in my opinion it's not the Presidents that have caused the need for government change, it's the congress. For to long have the millionaires been in control.

You are cherry picking the parts that fit your prejudices.  First of all, this section is referring to the PEOPLE abolishing such government.  Not the opposition minions in the government.  The long train of abuses and usurptations occurred under Obama and the people went to the polls to abolish that government.  The Left are incensed and are seeking to overthrow the government, which is illegal.

 

You conveniently leave out a key part:

 

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

 

What has Trump done that even equals anything that Obama did?  Wasn’t Obama behind seeing to it that Comey originally buried the Hilary investigation?  Why did that quietly go away and yet the investigation on Flynn, which there is no evidence is being plastered all over the public eye?

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20 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

You are cherry picking the parts that fit your prejudices.  First of all, this section is referring to the PEOPLE abolishing such government.  Not the opposition minions in the government.  The long train of abuses and usurptations occurred under Obama and the people went to the polls to abolish that government.  The Left are incensed and are seeking to overthrow the government, which is illegal.

 

You conveniently leave out a key part:

 

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

 

What has Trump done that even equals anything that Obama did?  Wasn’t Obama behind seeing to it that Comey originally buried the Hilary investigation?  Why did that quietly go away and yet the investigation on Flynn, which there is no evidence is being plastered all over the public eye?

Why indeed? Certainly it must be because of some huge liberal/media/institutional conspiracy involving hundreds of people who all are keeping quite and not because there really is something to the Flynn case and the FBI is keeping what they have close to the chest, because, you know, the FBI actually cares about justice not politics, and maybe just maybe there really was not enough evidence there to prosecute the Hillary case, but maybe just maybe there is mounting evidence for the Flynn case.

Maybe just maybe the media is right about Trump, it certainly makes more sense than some kind of vast conspiracy against his presidency. We all know how inept our institutions are at keeping scandalous things secret, I don't think they are capable of keeping such a vast conspiracy as the one you are suggesting under wraps.

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47 minutes ago, Lilly said:

NYC real estate developers generally aren't the fragile snowflake types...usually quite the opposite. Time will tell I suspect. IMO the first thing Trump needs to do is to pull out the hatchet and start cleaning house. If he doesn't have the testicular fortitude to do this then IMO he's doomed.

I think the fact that NYC voted overwhelmingly against Trump is very telling, they knew him best.

Define fragile snowflake? I think Trumps ego is indeed a fragile snowflake in that he cannot handle criticism without lashing out and trying to get revenge. That mentality, the vengeful get even mentality, probably helps you when you are trying to crush competition and stomp on rivals to strong arm your way to wealth in the real estate development business. For a president though? I don't think that mentality helps at all. I think it works against you, and we are seeing that right now with Trump.

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Posted (edited)

51 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

You are cherry picking the parts that fit your prejudices.  First of all, this section is referring to the PEOPLE abolishing such government.  Not the opposition minions in the government.  The long train of abuses and usurptations occurred under Obama and the people went to the polls to abolish that government.  The Left are incensed and are seeking to overthrow the government, which is illegal.

 

You conveniently leave out a key part:

 

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

 

What has Trump done that even equals anything that Obama did?  Wasn’t Obama behind seeing to it that Comey originally buried the Hilary investigation?  Why did that quietly go away and yet the investigation on Flynn, which there is no evidence is being plastered all over the public eye?

You talk about my prejudices, when you clearly can't get pass yours enough to even read what I said. I mean seriously? I just said it's not the Presidents (as in Bush, Obama or Trump), it's the Congress that's the problem.

Do me a favor, go back and read what I wrote again and then show me where I said anything about wanting to overthrow the government. (I'll give you a hint, I didn't. I said we need to change the congress, as in voting in 2018) Then after you do that go back and read it again and show me where I said anything about impeaching Trump (again, I didn't).

oh, and I didn't leave that part out on purpose, I have had that quote saved, as is, for for years on my pc. My only purpose in that post was to say that the founding fathers would disagree with the meaning of Lilly's post.

And of course the U.S. has a law saying it is illegal to overthrow the government. You would have to be stupid to not think that would be illegal, but then that was not the point of my post.

 

One more point: I think the calls for impeaching Trump right now are asininely stupid. It will just make it harder to do so in the future if he does do something worth it. 

Edited by Odin11
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24 minutes ago, Odin11 said:

 

....My only purpose in that post was to say that the founding fathers would disagree with the meaning of Lilly's post.

 

The meaning of my post was simply to point out that it is indeed illegal to conspire to overthrow the United States Government. Since our government has been duly elected it would not fit into the same category of what England was doing to the American Colonies (taxation without representation).

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Posted (edited)

45 minutes ago, Lilly said:

The meaning of my post was simply to point out that it is indeed illegal to conspire to overthrow the United States Government. Since our government has been duly elected it would not fit into the same category of what England was doing to the American Colonies (taxation without representation).

It seemed to me that your meaning was blind obedience to law, that since it is illegal it shouldn't be done. That's why I posted what I did. It was illegal for the American Colonies to throw off the yoke of English rule as well, but they did it anyway.

I think some would argue that taxation without representation, in a loose sense, is what is happening today in congress. That they were voted in to represent the people, but instead of passing laws for the betterment of the people they pass laws for their own benefit.

Edited by Odin11

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First off who in the room was not allowed to know that information? If the Secretary of State was, but not the National Security advisors you know who leaked. But realistically I would expect them all to know that prior to who leaked.

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

You are thinking coup de etat.  And yes that is illegal.  What's happening to Trump isn't involving guns but political daggers. 

Do I think what is going on is a coup?  Yup.

Is it illegal or bad?  No.

Being a strong leader means being able to weather political storms. 

I know "snowflake" is a label coined by conservatives, but in the mere 100+ days of this presidency, I have seen tweets and actions from Trump that gives me the impression that he is a fragile snowflake.  A big delicate ego that is too easily bruised to the point of him doing foolish and self destructive things.  It is no wonder to me that the establishment is starting to eat him up like the sharks they are.  He will either learn and straighten up or he will fall. 

I think it Trump telling his accusers put up or shut up. Where is one single shred of Russian collusion proof? One single shred of proof? Not arguing with you by the way, just saying.

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3 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

I think the fact that NYC voted overwhelmingly against Trump is very telling, they knew him best.

Define fragile snowflake? I think Trumps ego is indeed a fragile snowflake in that he cannot handle criticism without lashing out and trying to get revenge. That mentality, the vengeful get even mentality, probably helps you when you are trying to crush competition and stomp on rivals to strong arm your way to wealth in the real estate development business. For a president though? I don't think that mentality helps at all. I think it works against you, and we are seeing that right now with Trump.

NYC filled with millions on welfare ALWAYS vote democrat. 

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I have questions in regards to impeachment, that I ask for clarity, because I am in no way an expert on such things.

I am of the belief that just because a POTUS is impeached it does not mean he is forced to resign. Is this true? Wasn't the last President impeached Bill Clinton? Impeached for lying about having relations with what's her face.

People who are dedicated to impeaching Donald Trump won't necisarily get him to resign. We all know that don't we?

 

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So I looked into it. Only two sitting Presidents have ever been succesfully impeached and niether one resigned. Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson.

I'm pretty certain all this impeachment talk isn't  going to change much of anything.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Kismit said:

So I looked into it. Only two sitting Presidents have ever been succesfully impeached and niether one resigned. Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson.

I'm pretty certain all this impeachment talk isn't  going to change much of anything.

Not really... but physically removing the man and replacing him with someone they want will prove to be successful. Because half the nation aka liberals wants the man gone since the beginning and those fools will more than likely back the coup regardless what kind of government would replace the old.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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11 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Absolutely!  It's called treason and the anti-Trump crowd needs to be careful or the swamp is going to get drained sooner than expected.  If this was a dictatorship, the appropriate action would be clear.

Would it make you happy if this was a dictatorship?   There is a wide selection around the world if you would feel more comfortable in one.  How about a rule of law?  Would that not be more desirable? Pardner the swamp is as full of Republicans as it is of Democrats.

 

First of all, it is not called treason unless people foment a violent overthrow.  Law allows the behavior of any individual to be questioned, there is a procedure.  That is what has kept us a democracy.   If Donald Trump were impeached and convicted, would not Vice President Pence become President to finish out his term?  Remember Nixon then Gerald Ford?  Not quite the same since Nixon resigned.  Republicans hold the majority in Congress.  Only the cooperation of many Republicans could make this a threat.  

I think maybe some folks have been underdogs and conspiracy theorists a little too long.  Use your power, be in charge, govern wisely. Take responsibility for your actions. 

If leftists had been so clever, or this was a dictatorship, Hillary their queen would be in power now.  Don't wish for stuff like that.

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