Waspie_Dwarf Posted May 25, 2017 #1 Share Posted May 25, 2017 DARPA Picks Design for Next-Generation Spaceplane Agency partners with Boeing to build and fly an experimental vehicle for aircraft-like access to space Quote DARPA has selected The Boeing Company to complete advanced design work for the Agency’s Experimental Spaceplane (XS-1) program, which aims to build and fly the first of an entirely new class of hypersonic aircraft that would bolster national security by providing short-notice, low-cost access to space. The program aims to achieve a capability well out of reach today—launches to low Earth orbit in days, as compared to the months or years of preparation currently needed to get a single satellite on orbit. Read More: DARPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted May 25, 2017 #2 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Interesting. Main rocket becomes easily recoverable by adding wings and landing gear. Appears to not be human piloted though. I imagine that would be a tough ride to control. Drone piloting seems to be doing really well lately so no big deal there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted May 25, 2017 Author #3 Share Posted May 25, 2017 On 5/25/2017 at 1:15 PM, DieChecker said: Appears to not be human piloted though. Adding a crew always adds massive complications, cost and weight (life support, launch escape systems, etc). As this is supposed to be a cheap way of launching satellites it would make no sense to add a crew. Conventional launch systems don't need a crew and this is no different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithisco Posted May 25, 2017 #4 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) DARPA seems to be lagging by some years behind Skylon and Sabre technology. there is also no need for launch pad facilities (designated runway however is required), and at 635Sterling per kilo it is also considerably cheaper. Skylon/Sabre also has the capability of fully autonomous operation, or crewed operation. It will also be capable of re-supplying the ISS Designation Max Payload Reusable Powerplant Launch Manned Capability Max Speed LEO Capable Boeing XS-1 1.36Tonnes Partial Rocketdyne AR-22 Vertical No Mach5 Extra costs Skylon 12-15Tonnes Fully Sabre Horizontal Yes Mach25 Yes Edited May 25, 2017 by keithisco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted May 26, 2017 #5 Share Posted May 26, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, keithisco said: DARPA seems to be lagging by some years behind Skylon and Sabre technology. there is also no need for launch pad facilities (designated runway however is required), and at 635Sterling per kilo it is also considerably cheaper. Skylon/Sabre also has the capability of fully autonomous operation, or crewed operation. It will also be capable of re-supplying the ISS Designation Max Payload Reusable Powerplant Launch Manned Capability Max Speed LEO Capable Boeing XS-1 1.36Tonnes Partial Rocketdyne AR-22 Vertical No Mach5 Extra costs Skylon 12-15Tonnes Fully Sabre Horizontal Yes Mach25 Yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylon_(spacecraft) It doesn't say, but I imagine that is going to be a tremendously long runway. This thing is basically a liquid hydrogen tank trying to get off the ground. Edited May 26, 2017 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithisco Posted May 26, 2017 #6 Share Posted May 26, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DieChecker said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylon_(spacecraft) It doesn't say, but I imagine that is going to be a tremendously long runway. This thing is basically a liquid hydrogen tank trying to get off the ground. ...as is any conventional chemical reaction-mass rocket technology. The main advantage in this respect is that it only needs to carry 20% of the fuel that any other system requires to carry a comparative payload into orbit. The Sabre engine is the key to this massive step forward by taking atmospheric oxygen in at 1000c and cooling it to -150C in less than 150 milliseconds. This means the amount of oxidiser that it needs to carry on-board at take -off is relatively negligible as the reaction mass fuel is extracted from the atmosphere Edited May 26, 2017 by keithisco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted May 26, 2017 Author #7 Share Posted May 26, 2017 The problem with Sabre technology is that, apart from on paper, it doesn't actually exist yet and may not fly for decades (if at all). A bit of a draw back for a rapid response launch vehicle. Skylon and Sabre are great ideas and are probably the future of satellite launching, but the XS-1 has the advantage that it can, and is, being built now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted May 26, 2017 #8 Share Posted May 26, 2017 4 hours ago, keithisco said: ...as is any conventional chemical reaction-mass rocket technology. The main advantage in this respect is that it only needs to carry 20% of the fuel that any other system requires to carry a comparative payload into orbit. The Sabre engine is the key to this massive step forward by taking atmospheric oxygen in at 1000c and cooling it to -150C in less than 150 milliseconds. This means the amount of oxidiser that it needs to carry on-board at take -off is relatively negligible as the reaction mass fuel is extracted from the atmosphere Yeah, I wasn't calling it crap technology, just pointing out that it is going to be heavy getting off the ground, and require a long runway. Even if liquid hydrogen is 12 times lighter then water, the whole craft is basically filled with fuel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithisco Posted May 26, 2017 #9 Share Posted May 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said: The problem with Sabre technology is that, apart from on paper, it doesn't actually exist yet and may not fly for decades (if at all). A bit of a draw back for a rapid response launch vehicle. Skylon and Sabre are great ideas and are probably the future of satellite launching, but the XS-1 has the advantage that it can, and is, being built now. The high temperature test of the pre-cooler will take place this year (intake air in excess of 1000C9, with a fully integrated engine core test in 2020. BA Systems currently developing a flight test vehicle in preparation for the flight test programme. As you will be aware Waspie, as with the XS-1 the first vehicles will be unmanned so certification is considerably easier as they only require unmanned experimental certification. These are certainly very interesting times with both of these new developments offering enormous potential to push the boundaries of knowledge and capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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