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Review of voyages to the Americas


Hanslune

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16 hours ago, No Solid Ground said:

Take a look at the following map, which has been turned upside-down so we can view it with fresh eyes, to understand the connecting waterways of the region for an Egyptian ship ... 

10270_10207257734954571_4257498176068219202_n.jpg.ea9738db44b6d35006293b582e3567ab.jpg

Figure 12: Upside-Down Map of Mariner Routes.

... and then consider that the distance between the western coast of Africa and the Bahamas is similar to that between Egypt and Northern Europe ... where quite a number of Egyptian artifacts have been discovered. It's known that Egyptian influences reached Northern Europe at least as early as 3,400 years ago, as evidenced by beads excavated in Denmark with chemical compositions that trace the beads to Amarna, Egypt. And linguists have shown that the Celtic language is heavily influenced by Old Egyptian. Because of the legacy of colonialism, we’re used to seeing the Mediterranean as a sharp divide between “backward” Africa and “civilized” Europe. In ancient times, however, waterways were places of connection. The real barriers to human movement were the Sahara and the Congo rainforest to the south and the Alps to the north.

If we accept the seemingly reasonable premise that the Egyptians were able to sail to Denmark 3,400 years ago ... and that they were building seaworthy ships 4,000 years ago ... it seems to me that it isn't unreasonable to think that they hitched a ride on the Gulf Stream to Central America ... which would account for the many similarities between Egyptian and Central American cultural artifacts. 

A little late... But.. WHAT!!

The difference between sailing even as far as Denmark, and sailing to the Americas is OPEN OCEAN. Going up the European coast, one can always go to shore in case of storms, or starvation, or ship damage. Going out of sight of land was Suicide if you didn't know where you were going. The odds of finding Bermuda in the Atlantic as a half way point are close to zero, unless you know where it is when you set out.

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20 hours ago, Jarocal said:

I'm partial to omniglot.com personally. Any site that has a section devoted to fictional alphabets, then breaks that section into "Tolkien' s alphabets" and "other fictional alphabets gets a five star review.

:)

Omniglot was the one I was hunting but couldn't come up with it.  Ethnologue came up as a "well, it'll do."

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On 5/27/2017 at 1:52 PM, No Solid Ground said:

 And linguists have shown that the Celtic language is heavily influenced by Old Egyptian.

No, they haven't. There is no qualified, professional linguist who would say this or agree with someone who has.

--Jaylemurph

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2 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

No, they haven't. There is no qualified, professional linguist who would say this or agree with someone who has.

--Jaylemurph

I'm not saying Old Egyptian is involved, but I recall a lecturer who was saying early Indo-European might have been influenced by Semitic languages. He didn't elaborate and I've always wanted to learn more about this. And it was a reputable lecturer, not some internet goofball.

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1 minute ago, kmt_sesh said:

I'm not saying Old Egyptian is involved, but I recall a lecturer who was saying early Indo-European might have been influenced by Semitic languages. He didn't elaborate and I've always wanted to learn more about this. And it was a reputable lecturer, not some internet goofball.

I guess it is possible some (proto-)Semitic language influenced some IE languages. But we would literally have no proof, since we have no written records of the earliest stages of either language family, and unless there was a vast, systemic influence (as between, say, Greek and Latin or Old French on English), it wouldn't be possible to reconstruct any changes such contact might engender. 

In any case, the source journal of the article I quoted above is not subject to peer review or critical editing. It's essential a vanity journal of its two owners.

--Jaylemurph

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There seems to have a lot of going back and forth between Alaska ans Siberia, for millennia. The Dorset-Saqqaq would have introduced bows and arrows on the continent. It also seems there would have been a trade route between the North East Asian tribes and the North West american ones. 

It seems the Thule people, ancestor to the modern Inuit, came in following the political change of North Asian goods routes after Imperial China changes.
 

Quote

Until recently, the conventional scientific belief was that the Thule migrated into the Canadian Arctic because of the warming climate during the Medieval Warm Period (800-1200 CE), following their prey, the bowhead whale. Now, a remarkable new theory with growing support in the archaeological community proposes that the Bering Strait Thule experienced a serious iron shortage related to disruptions in East Asian trade routes after the rise of Ghengis Khan in the 13th century. Knowing of sources of iron in the Canadian Arctic, Thule migrants set off on a journey eastwards in search of this precious commodity. The iron they eventually discovered would have been both meteoric (Cape York meteors) and European, because Norse Greenlanders were trading into the Eastern Canadian Arctic in their quest for walrus ivory and other Arctic luxury goods.

Since the end of the Cold War, a generation of archaeological research on the Alaskan and Russian sides of the Bering Strait has revealed evidence of a highly competitive and relatively densely populated culture region 1000 years ago. The emergence of hierarchical village societies, containing over-classes of artists and political leaders, and supported by slaves, is linked to their learning to hunt for the largest mammal in their environment, the bowhead whale. Intense competition for hunting grounds, over-population, and the ability to maintain permanent militias were factors in the emergence of violent conflict. Archaeologists have uncovered fortified Bering Strait villages, and the Thule were known to wear Chinese-style slat armour and use the Mongol recurved bow.


http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/features/history-of-the-thule-migration

They do count as precolumbian migrations, right?

Edit: another article on the same subject:
http://quatr.us/northamerica/before1500/history/inuit.htm

Edit: and another one:
http://historythings.com/ancient-chinese-metalworking-discovered-alaska/

Edited by Gingitsune
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An interesting note. Many fringe theories throw up the obstacle of  'rising' sea levels to explain away no evidence for lost civilizations. The sea level did rise and so they can always say that the evidence for this or that lost civilization just happens to be on those coasts.

However, the west coast of South America is an interesting place to look for PreClovis sites and ancient civilizations as the subduction of the Pacific Plate has resulting in the continuing uplift of the coast over the Pleistocene. As a result, coastal sites, which normally would have either submerged, destroyed, or both by sea level rise possibly in places would remain above and be unaffected by changes in sea level.

So far some old sites but no ancient Atlantean ports.....

https://www.academia.edu/8511765/Coastal_deformation_and_sea-level_changes_in_the_northern_Chile_subduction_area_23_S_during_the_last_330_ky

 

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On 5/29/2017 at 3:29 PM, Gingitsune said:

There seems to have a lot of going back and forth between Alaska ans Siberia, for millennia. The Dorset-Saqqaq would have introduced bows and arrows on the continent. It also seems there would have been a trade route between the North East Asian tribes and the North West american ones. 

It seems the Thule people, ancestor to the modern Inuit, came in following the political change of North Asian goods routes after Imperial China changes.
 


http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/features/history-of-the-thule-migration

They do count as precolumbian migrations, right?

Edit: another article on the same subject:
http://quatr.us/northamerica/before1500/history/inuit.htm

Edit: and another one:
http://historythings.com/ancient-chinese-metalworking-discovered-alaska/

Yeah it was old joke that the natives living along the Bering straight were discovering each other on a weekly basis.' Look URGH its the Americas', next day 'AURG by god its Asia!!' Repeat for many several thousands of years.

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On 5/28/2017 at 10:23 PM, kmt_sesh said:

I'm not saying Old Egyptian is involved, but I recall a lecturer who was saying early Indo-European might have been influenced by Semitic languages. He didn't elaborate and I've always wanted to learn more about this. And it was a reputable lecturer, not some internet goofball.

I would think it might be the other way around.  Early Indo-European evolves before Semitic languages, doesn't it?

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Rupert knew the first Indo-European family - a bunch of walled-eyed lunatics with fat feet and a longing for beef tartare. He never observed them with any Semitic tendencies or folks but then he didn't spend much time around them - other than to shoo them away from Atlantean beach front property.

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8 hours ago, Kenemet said:

I would think it might be the other way around.  Early Indo-European evolves before Semitic languages, doesn't it?

I'm quite certain Semitic is the older of the two. All those languages we identify today as Semitic or Afro-Semitic originated in Africa and spread out from there.

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8 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Rupert knew the first Indo-European family - a bunch of walled-eyed lunatics with fat feet and a longing for beef tartare. He never observed them with any Semitic tendencies or folks but then he didn't spend much time around them - other than to shoo them away from Atlantean beach front property.

Rupert must've just missed the fact that they were circumcised. But I'm sure he's too modest to take a look down there.

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3 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Rupert must've just missed the fact that they were circumcised. But I'm sure he's too modest to take a look down there.

He is to modest, however he noted that as an Atlantean they were not circumcised but instead had an additional three pieces grafted on.

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5 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

He is to modest, however he noted that as an Atlantean they were not circumcised but instead had an additional three pieces grafted on.

Wow. And they still lost the war? Or were they tripping over the three additional pieces? Wish I had that problem.

Whew, I hope a Moderator doesn't see this.

Wait...

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On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 6:19 PM, Hanslune said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories

This source gives a good review of all the known ones. Can anyone add anything to what has been placed there and are their any other theories or ideas?

From the wiki:

My own view is that there may have been contacts but the they were probably fleeting and un-subtantial - much less than what the Greenlander/Norse did.

I do believe the Polynesians with a thousand plus years of deep sea experience went on to SA however the evidence of this is still sketchy but strong enough to say 'probably'.

I don't believe in any contact from Africa but find it possible that contact from Asia by drifting from North Asia to NA may have occurred. Perhaps a Roman or other craft may have come deliberately or by accident but made not great impression.

Comments?

I think the Vikings from the north were the first to cross the Atlantic. The Egyptians did`nt have good boats, while the Phoenicians better cedar boats, only hugged the coast lines of Europe and Africa.

Edited by docyabut2
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2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

I think the Vikings from the north were the first to cross the Atlantic. The Egyptians did`nt have good boats, while the Phoenicians better cedar boats, only hugged the coast lines of Europe and Africa.

I think it is possible that someone could - I always speculated that a ship carrying wine to or from the Canary islands that were known to the Romans - could have made it across to SA. I say a wine carrying ship as crossing either by accident or intent would have required a large supply of water/liquid for the crew to survive something not usually carried by a coastal hugging ship. A few other people MIGHT have made it too. However we know that expeditions occurred during the age of exploration that were not recorded/the records lost, so its very probable that would have been true for the ancient period.

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