Mark of the Beast

[XenoFish]

Just now, ChaosRose said:

One thing they can't say about us is that we're full of ourselves. 

I think it's a detachment that comes from accepting that life is absurd and meaningless. Outside of the meaning you give things, and I don't like the idea of becoming a "thing", whatever it may be. 

[GlitterRose]

I suppose a group could basically create this "utopia" if they just weeded out all the people who didn't think like them, and/or forced everyone to assent in fear of reprisal. 

I wouldn't exactly call that paradise, though.

Edited July 22, 2017 by ChaosRose

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

I call him mate  but then i am an aussie.  (and "he", is a mate)  Humans attach names to the cosmic consciousness /god  and then attach power to the names. They are all just human words.  If you speak a different language you will use a different word with the same attachments.  

Glad to meet you mate. I wonder a lot about Australia, all the way around the globe from were I grew up and live on the West coast of the USA, but I think we share a lot of the same things, like big block V8's in our old Fords and such. I think the people of Australia and America share a strong common bond. We've gone away from home and fought many a war in other countries for the sake of freedom for all, like people of a lot of other countries also, English speaking or not.

I've noticed your posts. I like your positive messages. Especially when it comes to religious knowledge being based on personal spiritual experience. 

Regarding your comment here about God, that he is a friend (I'm not even gonna go there about God being a person vs an "it"). Yes, he's "it" too, amongst everything else that exists, like mass, energy and spirits but most important of all, he's a friend, and a father. 

Why think of him any other way? 

 

 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

So do you think the perfection of humanity is an attainable thing? Do you think there will be this "New Jerusalem" after all the "undesirables" have been weeded out? 

I know that humans are capable of great things and far ,more than we currently achieve. Perfection is a goal, not an end point A target to work towards so you constantly improve.

 I think one of two things will happen. Humanity will destroy itself or at least its modern civilization OR we will grow up, become adults, learn to control our animal instincts  and eliminate violence, anger, hate and fear.

There simply will not be room for unreconstructed humans in the future.  It has nothing to do with god,  and everything to do with the way humans are evolving as a social species We can't afford to have those capable of killing, raping and abusing others allowed loose among us  when we live in such close proximity to each other .   

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

I suppose a group could basically create this "utopia" if they just weeded out all the people who didn't think like them, and/or forced everyone to assent in fear of reprisal. 

I wouldn't exactly call that paradise, though.

No you just have to weed out those incapable of controlling their emotions and behaviors so they cannot help themselves hurting others. It is not about values but about outcomes. If oyu can control yourself, it doesnt matter what you think people can be entirely difernt and live difernt lives with different values as long as they tolerate difference and can control their own fears anger hate prejudices etc. . 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Mr Walker

[GlitterRose]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

I know that humans are capable of great things and far ,more than we currently achieve. Perfection is a goal, not an end point A target to work towards so you constantly improve.

 I think one of two things will happen. Humanity will destroy itself or at least its modern civilization OR we will grow up, become adults, learn to control our animal instincts  and eliminate violence, anger, hate and fear.

There simply will not be room for unreconstructed humans in the future.  It has nothing to do with god,  and everything to do with the way humans are evolving as a social species We can't afford to have those capable of killing, raping and abusing others allowed loose among us  when we live in such close proximity to each other .   

See I can't help but be a glass half empty girl here, even though I truly wish for the glass to be full. 

[Mr Walker]

9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I like to think of it this way.

A man/woman goes through their entire life doing right, being just and good. A kind compassionate soul, never knowing god. On the day of their death they find themselves in hell, "Why am I here?" they ask. The devil walks up to him/her and says, "You did not have faith in god. All the good you did was for nothing." 

But that won't happen in biblical theology (as opposed to catholic interpretation of the bible)  If the human being was good, god will judge their heart and mind,  even if they have never heard of the christian religion.  Every human, in christian theology, has already been saved from eternal death  by the sacrifice of christ  (there is no hell in the non catholic understanding of the bible ) The wages of sin are death, not eternal punishment , and  eternal life is the consequence for being good.

 We can only condemn ourselves to the second death of body and soul , theologically, by what we think, and how we act.   Yes in christian theology  we are held accountable for our  actions, but this is also the rule of natural consequence

" What ye  sew, so shalt thee reap"

There is however,  in christian theology, a difernt standard for people who have been taught about god and refuse to accept him, or his authority.   Because we are saved by the grace of god in christian theology , a person who refuses to accept that grace cant receive it.

We have a right to refuse it . Only conscious rejection, not ignorance, counts against a person under this belief system.  And even  this might not cause god to reject them . A person hurt by the church or religion as a child, who then rejects god ,might still be accepted by god if they are not an evil person, BECAUSE  they were not really free to make a  free choice. 

Personally, i don't think there are right and wrong religions, except where they do great good or great harm when followed. Different religions offer very important ,but different,  things to different people with different needs. 

The connection between god and man is personal and individual, and needs no religious framework, at all.

Of course priests would be out of a job if people thought like this, so many religions claim you can only connect with god through the church or priest. 

 

[Mr Walker]

7 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

See I can't help but be a glass half empty girl here, even though I truly wish for the glass to be full. 

So you think it likely that humans will destroy themselves?

It is interesting how some people see life as meaningless, and humanity as insignificant, with themselves  even more insignificant .   I suspect there is a correlation between people with that  pessimistic world view, and with a negative belief and lack of hope for humanity and our future.

I was brought up as a secular humanist, first to believe in myself. Second to believe in humanity and human nature;  intelligence, imagination, creativity etc.  and third, to do all I could to make myself the best i could be, so that i could make the world a better place.   

I recognise the dangers for humanity, but i also see the incredible potential.

If we can get through the next century I reckon our chances go from 50/50  to an increasingly high chance for survival and evolutionary social change You can see signs of it in people today.  As an historian i can look back at the social ,technological, and other evolutionary progressions of human beings, and see huge changes. Unfortunately we developed the abilty to wipe out life on earth before we developed wisdom, but the wisdom is catching up .

I often ask people, " when is the best time to be born?" Basically, historically, the answer is, first, right now, but second, sometime in the future  You and i will hardly recognise the earth or humanity in another 200 years time, just as someone from 200 years ago would hardy recognise our world or  our customs, today.   

[Rlyeh]

On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 8:46 AM, Opus Magnus said:

Morally speaking, when people protested this in the 70's, you'd think they might just make a different guard post, I wouldn't call these men fools, they're obviously smart enough to come up with a way to tweak the code to give some space.  So, they're pretty immoral creatures, call them the Devil if you want to.

Morally? You're confusing superstition for morality. They're no more immoral than anyone else who disregards superstitious whack jobs.

[Opus Magnus]

13 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Morally? You're confusing superstition for morality. They're no more immoral than anyone else who disregards superstitious whack jobs.

Immoral to ignore Ghandi when he protests in fast, or when people are protesting a 2000 year old custom that is being broken in the 1970's.  It's not just superstition, it's a political disgrace.

[Rlyeh]

13 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

Immoral to ignore Ghandi when he protests in fast, or when people are protesting a 2000 year old custom that is being broken in the 1970's.  It's not just superstition, it's a political disgrace.

Oh no! Some one offended your imaginary friend.

[Opus Magnus]

11 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Oh no! Some one offended your imaginary friend.

No, it's God, but actually the people that were offended.

[Rlyeh]

53 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

No, it's God, but actually the people that were offended.

Yes, that's what you call him.
These people were looking for something to be offended at and after some mental gymnastics they found it. As petty as the god they worship.

[GoldenWolf]

18 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Yes, that's what you call him.
These people were looking for something to be offended at and after some mental gymnastics they found it. As petty as the god they worship.

[Mr Walker]

20 hours ago, Mystic Crusader said:

The right hand column typifies people who have a psychological disorder  known as co dependency They typically  feel that meeting the needs of others, is   essential to meeting their own needs.

Co-dependents have low self-esteem and look for anything outside of themselves to make them feel better. They find it hard to “be themselves.” Some try to feel better through alcohol, drugs or nicotine - and become addicted. Others may develop compulsive behaviors like workaholism, gambling, or indiscriminate sexual activity.

They have good intentions. They try to take care of a person who is experiencing difficulty, but the caretaking becomes compulsive and defeating. Co-dependents often take on a martyr’s role and become “benefactors” to an individual in need. A wife may cover for her alcoholic husband; a mother may make excuses for a truant child; or a father may “pull some strings” to keep his child from suffering the consequences of delinquent behavior.

The problem is that these repeated rescue attempts allow the needy individual to continue on a destructive course and to become even more dependent on the unhealthy caretaking of the “benefactor.” As this reliance increases, the co-dependent develops a sense of reward and satisfaction from “being needed.” When the caretaking becomes compulsive, the co-dependent feels choiceless and helpless in the relationship, but is unable to break away from the cycle of behavior that causes it. Co-dependents view themselves as victims and are attracted to that same weakness in the love and friendship relationships.

Characteristics of Co-dependent People Are:

• An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others
• A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to “love” people they can pity and rescue
• A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time
• A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts
• An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment
• An extreme need for approval and recognition
• A sense of guilt when asserting themselves
• A compelling need to control others
• Lack of trust in self and/or others
• Fear of being abandoned or alone
• Difficulty identifying feelings
• Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change
• Problems with intimacy/boundaries
• Chronic anger
• Lying/dishonesty
• Poor communications
• Difficulty making decisions

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/co-dependency

Edited July 27, 2017 by Mr Walker

[+DieChecker]

23 hours ago, Mystic Crusader said:

So you are in favor of the Individual style, rather then the Collective? 

[GoldenWolf]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

So you are in favor of the Individual style, rather then the Collective? 

You're misinterpreting, this is about "God" and how his ugliness has been imprinted onto mankind.

[Will Due]

5 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

You're misinterpreting, this is about "God" and how his ugliness has been imprinted onto mankind.

That's very shortsighted. Look farther and you'll see the beauty of it.

 

[GoldenWolf]

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

That's very shortsighted. Look farther and you'll see the beauty of it.

 

There is no beauty in a malignant narcissist.

[Will Due]

22 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

There is no beauty in a malignant narcissist.

You don't like to wait do you. You're in a hurry right?

 

[GoldenWolf]

9 minutes ago, Will Due said:

You don't like to wait do you. You're in a hurry right?

 

For what? The end of suffering that he created in the first place? The end of world?

[Will Due]

7 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

For what? The end of suffering that he created in the first place? The end of world?

Believe me, I understand what you're talking about. But what evidence do you have that God created the suffering you're referring to?

God created human beings endowed with free will. And not too much experience to gain much wisdom to boot. The suffering came about because of malignant people, not God. 

Would you rather have been born without free will, like a machine?

 

[GoldenWolf]

7 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Believe me, I understand what you're talking about. But what evidence do you have that God created the suffering you're referring to?

God created human beings endowed with free will. And not too much experience to gain much wisdom to boot. The suffering came about because of malignant people, not God. 

Would you rather have been born without free will, like a machine?

 

[Rlyeh]

8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Believe me, I understand what you're talking about. But what evidence do you have that God created the suffering you're referring to?

God created human beings endowed with free will. And not too much experience to gain much wisdom to boot. The suffering came about because of malignant people, not God. 

Would you rather have been born without free will, like a machine?

 

What good is this free will when your god wants humans to behave like machines?

[Will Due]

10 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

What good is this free will when your god wants humans to behave like machines?

Humans act like machines because they want to.

In other words, they themselves, are their god. That's the problem. They make their god in their image.

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Will Due