Mark of the Beast

[GlitterRose]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Some of the things people believe astound me. Not in a good way.

It's the cube, isn't it? Yeah, that got me, too. 

[XenoFish]

Just now, ChaosRose said:

It's the cube, isn't it? Yeah, that got me, too. 

No. It's all of this. Every bit of it. It makes me wonder how some people can function. If you have to look for evidence to validate what you believe, then perhaps what you believe can not be validated. Looking at barcode's for the "devil", people seeing Jesus in a corn flake, even going to the extent of self-delusion. Never thought I'd start becoming a hard atheist but damn. I often ask myself, "Why should I believe in god?" I can not come to an answer because of what god is suppose to be and the lack of evidence of any divine interaction in my life. Hell, I got better results from the Goetia than prayer. And that was all a head trip. 

[+and-then]

On 7/15/2017 at 9:01 AM, XenoFish said:

If you toss away the religious aspect of all this. All of us already have the "mark of the beast", we're given it at birth. Our SSN is one of them. Same for our bank account numbers, hell anything that numerically connects us to anything. 

The distinction of this particular symbol will be that those who take it will do so willingly, as an act of worship and or because they value their lives here more than a life in eternity.  I agree that the form this mark takes isn't the important aspect.  It is the decision to follow one other than God that condemns them. For those who so value their mortal lives, it will seem like a very easy call to make.  For others, those who are not convinced that there is no God, it will be a stressful time and I suspect they will decide based on their emotions.  True believers in Christ will either be few at that time because of the persecutions or they will be gone, altogether because of the Rapture/Harpazo.  

[XenoFish]

Just now, and then said:

The distinction of this particular symbol will be that those who take it will do so willingly, as an act of worship and or because they value their lives here more than a life in eternity.  I agree that the form this mark takes isn't the important aspect.  It is the decision to follow one other than God that condemns them. For those who so value their mortal lives, it will seem like a very easy call to make.  For others, those who are not convinced that there is no God, it will be a stressful time and I suspect they will decide based on their emotions.  True believers in Christ will either be few at that time because of the persecutions or they will be gone, altogether because of the Rapture/Harpazo.  

Good luck to you because I believe in neither the devil or your god. Both are fabrication of man to control others. I can not put faith in a phantom of the mind. Your god might have helped you overcome alcoholism, but that was just a placebo, you did that all on your own. 

[Opus Magnus]

11 minutes ago, and then said:

That sounds like you subscribe to replacement theology (Super Cessionism).  I believe that the Covenant God made with Abraham that was reiterated to Isaac and Jacob is still in effect.  It was not dependent on obedience. The Jews are still God's Chosen people and a remnant of them will inherit the full promises that God made to Abraham.  Those who truly accept the Deity of Jesus Christ understand that he could not have been harmed against his wishes. He laid down his life as a willing sacrifice in obedience to the Father.  His own rejected him, even though they had many prophecies given that made his coming known to them.  Before he left them he told them this about their future: For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.'" 

IOW, Christ told them that when they called to him in belief and for his deliverance he would return to them.  Far from being condemned, the future of the remnant will be glorious indeed.  Just as it will be for ALL who have believed in him.

No, I don't think so, but I think of Matthew 3:7, John the Baptist speaking

7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

 

As also, in the Laws of Moses, the Oath of the Nazarene is a full chapter.  Jesus, was raised in Nazareth so that the prophecy might be fulfilled that he would be called a Nazarene, but I think it's kind of a play on words.  Like, he didn't have to take the oath, but he'd be called a Nazarene for being in Nazareth.

I don't have time right now, but the Laws of the Nazarene was an oath where the man would not cut his hair, or drink any strong drink, or eat of the vine for the time of his seperation as a Nazarene.  Also, if a man fell dead before him, like out of pure coincidence, he'd have to shave his head and start over.  He wasn't to go unto any dead, family or not during his oath.

So, I'm not sure all these things are fair.  But, that's something God does, I guess.

[Opus Magnus]

I mean, John the Baptist, pretty much said God, could make a brand new Israel out of stones, meaning, I think, he'd raise up gentiles who were like the Israelites in bless, and what not.

[GlitterRose]

Maybe the real "Mark of the Beast" is not believing in the Golden Rule. 

It kinda seems like the litmus test to me. If you're not on the side of the Golden Rule, well then...you aren't. 

Edited July 22, 2017 by ChaosRose

[Opus Magnus]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+6

that's the chapter about the Nazarene.

[+and-then]

33 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

matthew 22:

22 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

² The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

³ And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

⁴ Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

⁵ But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

⁶ And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

⁷ But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

⁸ Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

⁹ Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

¹⁰ So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

¹¹ And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

¹² And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

¹³ Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

¹⁴ For many are called, but few are chosen.

I see.  Thanks for the citation.  I believe the key here is that his servants brought both "bad and good" and the mention of his garments is another allusion to the unworthiness of some.  The net effect is that only those who are true believers and doers of the word will be welcomed to the wedding feast.  Actually, one could compare the words of Jesus about salvation and the words of Paul about salvation and get to be quite confused.  All I know is that if a man must be perfect to be acceptable to God and that perfection must be achieved through works, then no one can be saved.  I submit the example of the thief on the cross.  He was promised paradise in the hours before his death.  What works could he show, other than faith?

[Opus Magnus]

Yeah, I think it's also about the true nature of a person.

[GlitterRose]

1 minute ago, Opus Magnus said:

Yeah, I think it's also about the true nature of a person.

Certainly, people can claim to be all about the Golden Rule or even claim Christ, but then their actions speak louder than that. 

In the same token, people can actually believe in the Golden Rule and try to put it into practice, without being literal about scripture. 

Edited July 22, 2017 by ChaosRose

[XenoFish]

I like to think of it this way.

A man/woman goes through their entire life doing right, being just and good. A kind compassionate soul, never knowing god. On the day of their death they find themselves in hell, "Why am I here?" they ask. The devil walks up to him/her and says, "You did not have faith in god. All the good you did was for nothing." 

[GlitterRose]

I think there's a category of people who try to know God, but don't trust the sources we have on it. 

[+and-then]

23 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Some of the things people believe astound me. Not in a good way.

The irony is that many would say the same of your beliefs and neither of you would be at fault.  It is the right of every person to choose what they believe about God.  Some decide to kneel, some decide to shake a fist and most decide just to ignore.  The fringes of the two opposites are very much alike to my mind.  One side will condemn the nonbeliever and think that only a believer is right and therefore is "better".  The other side will do the same except their condemnation and derision is for those of faith, who they see as ignorant or simple minded even when they are doing no real harm and in fact, are attempting to actually follow the commands of Christ to love their fellow man and to do good in the world.  Eventually, we will all know the truth.  Or not.  As I've often said, if you are correct about your belief then I have lost nothing by mine and will never know that I was wrong.  OTOH, if in the moment of your passing you realize you were wrong ...

[Mr Walker]

34 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Why not just have had it that way from the start? 

Thats the bible story it WAS like that at the start (in eden) The new earth will be just the same as eden was, but the original peoples chose evil over good  The moral of this narrative is that this was all a learning experience and next time we will all know better.  Didnt work out so well with noah and the ark, but a god's gotta do the best it can with what it has. 

[XenoFish]

What beliefs? I hold none really. Death is it, I expect nothing out of it. I expect no reward or punishment. Like everyone else I am just one insignificant clump of dna on a dying world. Doing the same thing all life that came before me has done, die. I'm not afraid of it. It can not be avoided. There is no god. We are just an accident. On the cosmic scale, we are nothing. And our lives are meaningless. All our lives. 

[GlitterRose]

Just now, Mr Walker said:

Thats the bible story it WAS like that at the start (in eden) The new earth will be just the same as eden was, but the original peoples chose evil over good  The moral of this narrative is that this was all a learning experience and next time we will all know better.  Didnt work out so well with noah and the ark, but a god's gotta do the best it can with what it has. 

But you had to take all of that literally in order to come to this conclusion. I thought you didn't do that. 

[Mr Walker]

35 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Some of the things people believe astound me. Not in a good way.

yea! Me too.  Some peole believe we can alter the climate of the earth one way and then back again   and tha t his is a desirable thing  Some people believe that growth is essential for human prosperity and that growth will always be sustainable.   

[+and-then]

22 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

No, I don't think so, but I think of Matthew 3:7, John the Baptist speaking

7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

 

As also, in the Laws of Moses, the Oath of the Nazarene is a full chapter.  Jesus, was raised in Nazareth so that the prophecy might be fulfilled that he would be called a Nazarene, but I think it's kind of a play on words.  Like, he didn't have to take the oath, but he'd be called a Nazarene for being in Nazareth.

I don't have time right now, but the Laws of the Nazarene was an oath where the man would not cut his hair, or drink any strong drink, or eat of the vine for the time of his seperation as a Nazarene.  Also, if a man fell dead before him, like out of pure coincidence, he'd have to shave his head and start over.  He wasn't to go unto any dead, family or not during his oath.

So, I'm not sure all these things are fair.  But, that's something God does, I guess.

I think you are using the Law to ascribe actions to Christ.  He was telling the Pharisees and Sadducees that they needed repentance and that the Law and their status as heirs of Abraham would not save them.  He said he came to make "all things new".  They were an example of why that was necessary.  The Covenant God made with Abraham for the land was eternal.  They were dispersed and wandered for centuries, enduring more abuse and hardship than any other people as recompense for their rejection of God, but he keeps his word for the sake of HIS WORD.  Not for the sake of the people.

[GlitterRose]

3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

yea! Me too.  Some peole believe we can alter the climate of the earth one way and then back again   and tha t his is a desirable thing  Some people believe that growth is essential for human prosperity and that growth will always be sustainable.   

Ha...that second part. There's a really scary video called The Most Important Video You'll Ever See. It's about exponential growth. You'll lose sleep over that one. Lol. 

[Mr Walker]

Just now, ChaosRose said:

But you had to take all of that literally in order to come to this conclusion. I thought you didn't do that. 

No i dont take the story literally i am deconstructing the narrative  The last words of the bible are something like"  i am the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end"  The bible is thus a story about birth, death, and rebirth, and about the eventual perfection of humanity . It is constructed deliberately to achieve many purposes but, in the main,  to tell this story, the new earth story was written thousands of years after the genesis story but was deliberately constructed to complete the circle and bring man kind back to the beginning in eden (eden even touches down as the center of the new jerusalem in revelations and, with the return of the tree of life,  edenic conditions return. ) it is a parable or morality tale   explaining the nature of man and the choices he faces  Take god out of the story and it remains the story of man and two possible futures for mankind. .  

[GlitterRose]

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What beliefs? I hold none really. Death is it, I expect nothing out of it. I expect no reward or punishment. Like everyone else I am just one insignificant clump of dna on a dying world. Doing the same thing all life that came before me has done, die. I'm not afraid of it. It can not be avoided. There is no god. We are just an accident. On the cosmic scale, we are nothing. And our lives are meaningless. All our lives. 

A grain of sand on the beach of the multiverse. 

[GlitterRose]

4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No i dont take the story literally i am deconstructing the narrative  The last words of the bible are something like"  i am the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end"  The bible is thus a story about birth, death, and rebirth, and about the eventual perfection of humanity . It is constructed deliberately to achieve many purposes but, in the main,  to tell this story, the new earth story was written thousands of years after the genesis story but was deliberately constructed to complete the circle and bring man kind back to the beginning in eden (eden even touches down as the center of the new jerusalem in revelations and, with the return of the tree of life,  edenic conditions return. ) it is a parable or morality tale   explaining the nature of man and the choices he faces  Take god out of the story and it remains the story of man and two possible futures for mankind. .  

So do you think the perfection of humanity is an attainable thing? Do you think there will be this "New Jerusalem" after all the "undesirables" have been weeded out? 

Edited July 22, 2017 by ChaosRose

[GlitterRose]

10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What beliefs? I hold none really. Death is it, I expect nothing out of it. I expect no reward or punishment. Like everyone else I am just one insignificant clump of dna on a dying world. Doing the same thing all life that came before me has done, die. I'm not afraid of it. It can not be avoided. There is no god. We are just an accident. On the cosmic scale, we are nothing. And our lives are meaningless. All our lives. 

One thing they can't say about us is that we're full of ourselves. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, ChaosRose said:

A grain of sand on the beach of the multiverse. 

And we've created stories and myths in order to find some "significance" in an unforgiving universe.