Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Is Donald Trump Making Europe Liberal Again?


Farmer77

Recommended Posts

I found this interesting because it statistically shows that the narrative of a global populist movement might be premature :

Donald Trump Is Making Europe Liberal Again 

On Dec. 4 last year, less than a month after Donald Trump had defeated Hillary Clinton, Austria held a revote in its presidential election, which pitted Alexander Van der Bellen, a liberal who had the backing of the Green Party, against Norbert Hofer of the right-wing Freedom Party. In May 2016, Van der Bellen had defeated Hofer by just more than 30,000 votes — receiving 50.3 percent of the vote to Hofer’s 49.7 percent — but the results had been annulled and a new election had been declared. Hofer had to like his chances: Polls showed a close race, but with him ever so slightly ahead in the polling average. Hofer cited Trump as an inspiration and said that he, like Trump, could overcome headwinds from the political establishment.

So what happened? Van der Bellen won by nearly 8 percentage points. Not only did Hofer receive a smaller share of the vote than in May, but he also had fewer votes despite a higher turnout. Something had caused Austrians to change their minds and decide that Hofer’s brand of populism wasn’t such a good idea after all.

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Something had caused Austrians to change their minds and decide that Hofer’s brand of populism wasn’t such a good idea after all.

 

Hmmm... could that something be the unbelievable cluster**** that is the US right now?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎18‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 8:41 PM, Farmer77 said:

I found this interesting because it statistically shows that the narrative of a global populist movement might be premature :

Donald Trump Is Making Europe Liberal Again 

On Dec. 4 last year, less than a month after Donald Trump had defeated Hillary Clinton, Austria held a revote in its presidential election, which pitted Alexander Van der Bellen, a liberal who had the backing of the Green Party, against Norbert Hofer of the right-wing Freedom Party. In May 2016, Van der Bellen had defeated Hofer by just more than 30,000 votes — receiving 50.3 percent of the vote to Hofer’s 49.7 percent — but the results had been annulled and a new election had been declared. Hofer had to like his chances: Polls showed a close race, but with him ever so slightly ahead in the polling average. Hofer cited Trump as an inspiration and said that he, like Trump, could overcome headwinds from the political establishment.

So what happened? Van der Bellen won by nearly 8 percentage points. Not only did Hofer receive a smaller share of the vote than in May, but he also had fewer votes despite a higher turnout. Something had caused Austrians to change their minds and decide that Hofer’s brand of populism wasn’t such a good idea after all.

 

500,000 Syrian immigrants given the vote....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/21/2017 at 1:53 PM, RabidMongoose said:

500,000 Syrian immigrants given the vote....

:lol: Right.

Where exactly that happened, according to your sources? (May I have the sources too, I enjoy morbid humour?)  

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

:lol: Right.

Where exactly that happened, according to your sources? (May I have the sources too, I enjoy morbid humour?)  

 

As of the moment, that type of madness is actually being suggested in Germany. So much for sovereign.

Martin wants to give refugees the right to vote in German election.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

As of the moment, that type of madness is actually being suggested in Germany. So much for sovereign.

Martin wants to give refugees the right to vote in German election.

First, it was Merkel who allowed influx of refugees not Schulz. At this moment those refugees would vote CDU and not SPD.

Second, this would be imposible because of the German Law. 

This is just empty talk, like the mexwall or better healthcare.

Third, do not worry about Germany. They know what they are doing.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

As of the moment, that type of madness is actually being suggested in Germany. So much for sovereign.

Martin wants to give refugees the right to vote in German election.

That disaster of an... well, an article... is from Feb 22 2017. It regurgitates another fantasy of Alex Jones.  

And even said disaster of an... article... does not imply any refugees voted, only attempts to accuse German 'left' of wanting to destroy their own country.  

I asked you kids for sources for your claims of refugees ****ing voting. Half a million voted, remember? 

Where the **** did they vote, except in Alex Jones' hollow head?  

How far do you think you'll go with blatant lying? 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

That disaster of an... well, an article... is from Feb 22 2017. It regurgitates another fantasy of Alex Jones.  

And even said disaster of an... article... does not imply any refugees voted, only attempts to accuse German 'left' of wanting to destroy their own country.  

I asked you kids for sources for your claims of refugees ****ing voting. Half a million voted, remember? 

Where the **** did they vote, except in Alex Jones' hollow head?  

How far do you think you'll go with blatant lying? 

-_-... I have no idea which german news article is real or not. Me posting a article is lying? Get off your damn high horse, that isn't me lying at all, but relying on a article that I found while searching if they are doing that. I just figure I post it here, bringing it to everyone's attention. Learn the difference between lying and just bringing something to everyone's attention.

Edited by Uncle Sam
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah... umm... the clue is that the article never actually quotes Martin, or offers ANY corroboration for the statement. 

A large number of "alternative" websites carry the same story. But.. that's just it. It IS the same story.... e.g. copy/paste. There doesn't seem to be ANY corroboration ANYWHERE on the internet. 

The View from the Roofgarden is that this is actually a political slander, and that Martin Schlutz never said any such thing.

As for Trump and the Liberalisation of Europe... I doubt there is any connection. Post Hoc ergo Proctor Hoc.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Concerning France's recently announced rapprochement with Russia--is it in conjunction with the rest of the EU, or is France acting unilaterally?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Yeah... umm... the clue is that the article never actually quotes Martin, or offers ANY corroboration for the statement. 

A large number of "alternative" websites carry the same story. But.. that's just it. It IS the same story.... e.g. copy/paste. There doesn't seem to be ANY corroboration ANYWHERE on the internet. 

The View from the Roofgarden is that this is actually a political slander, and that Martin Schlutz never said any such thing.

As for Trump and the Liberalisation of Europe... I doubt there is any connection. Post Hoc ergo Proctor Hoc.

Well I mostly deal with United States politics. IF I give my opinion, it tends to be massive paragraphs and littered with links.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

-_-... I have no idea which german news article is real or not. Me posting a article is lying? Get off your damn high horse, that isn't me lying at all, but relying on a article that I found while searching if they are doing that. I just figure I post it here, bringing it to everyone's attention. Learn the difference between lying and just bringing something to everyone's attention.

If you bring pure BS to everyone's attention you have to tolerate to get slapped for the nonsense. It does not make sense to spread  unexamined rubbish from third-class web tabloids. And, even worse, you didnt posted the article to "bringing it to everyone's attention" only, you falsely felt well informed to judge about Germany+elections:

Quote

As of the moment, that type of madness is actually being suggested in Germany. So much for sovereign.

If you want to discuss or judge about foreign politics and laws, do your homework first and well to avoid to look like an idiot. There are no voting rights for refugees and the will be no voting rights for refugees in Germany. Period.

But back to the story. The kickoff for the article was an article published by the satire magazine "Eine Zeitung" back in 2015, with a headline "Merkel to grant refugees voting rights (as soon as possible)". A lot of IQ75 experts didnt realized that this was satire only and the article had been shared on FB 150K times.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, toast said:

do your homework first and well to avoid to look like an idiot. There are no voting rights for refugees and the will be no voting rights for refugees in Germany. Period.

We in the states are often guilty of not "doing our homework" because, frankly, unless it bears directly on our lives we don't give a crap, it's just kind of interesting.  Exactly the same as citizens in Germany could often care less about the politics in the US.

As to the second statement, I assume you believe you are correct and for the sake of your children's future there, I hope you ARE correct.  Here in the US we uncontrolled immigration that is favored by large segments of BOTH political parties, for different reasons.  On the Left, it is exactly about the potential for all these new people to soon be voters, legal or otherwise.  For the Right, it is about cheap labor and higher profits.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎18‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 8:41 PM, Farmer77 said:

I found this interesting because it statistically shows that the narrative of a global populist movement might be premature :

Donald Trump Is Making Europe Liberal Again 

On Dec. 4 last year, less than a month after Donald Trump had defeated Hillary Clinton, Austria held a revote in its presidential election, which pitted Alexander Van der Bellen, a liberal who had the backing of the Green Party, against Norbert Hofer of the right-wing Freedom Party. In May 2016, Van der Bellen had defeated Hofer by just more than 30,000 votes — receiving 50.3 percent of the vote to Hofer’s 49.7 percent — but the results had been annulled and a new election had been declared. Hofer had to like his chances: Polls showed a close race, but with him ever so slightly ahead in the polling average. Hofer cited Trump as an inspiration and said that he, like Trump, could overcome headwinds from the political establishment.

So what happened? Van der Bellen won by nearly 8 percentage points. Not only did Hofer receive a smaller share of the vote than in May, but he also had fewer votes despite a higher turnout. Something had caused Austrians to change their minds and decide that Hofer’s brand of populism wasn’t such a good idea after all.

 

Trump is making the USA appear, well, let's say, not very intellectual.

The influence he is having on Europe is to make the electorate think long and hard about allowing the less well educated to take control, so that is all good.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

-_-... I have no idea which german news article is real or not. Me posting a article is lying? Get off your damn high horse, that isn't me lying at all, but relying on a article that I found while searching if they are doing that. I just figure I post it here, bringing it to everyone's attention. Learn the difference between lying and just bringing something to everyone's attention.

Check your source prior to contributing.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Likely Guy said:

Check your source prior to contributing.

 

Oh then, what is respectable, non-bias source located in Germany then? Do tell? I have a feeling you will have a little trouble finding one...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

Oh then, what is respectable, non-bias source located in Germany then? Do tell? I have a feeling you will have a little trouble finding one...

Albeit, my original recommendation still stands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, toast said:

If you want to discuss or judge about foreign politics and laws, do your homework first and well to avoid to look like an idiot. There are no voting rights for refugees and the will be no voting rights for refugees in Germany. Period.

For what I understand, correct me if I am wrong, the American system to record the existence of citizens would need some major revamping. They don't seem to have a permanent voter list, there is no real citizen list, information about them are scattered in different government agencies and they don't talk to each other. I heard it's because of a libertarian fear of Big Brother, or a Christian paranoia about Revelations which says each person will have a number and that will be a bad thing. It could be something else entirely, like states vs federal jurisdiction.

Anyway, it seems the American voting system is much easier to abuse than the Western European countries' ones, where every citizen has a proper file, which make their name appear on the proper lists. You can't just spawn out of the thin air there, you need proper papers. It doesn't mean it's foul proof, but you need to be much more skilled to get a fraudulent vote.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm... I'm not so sure that voting in the UK is quite as secure as you might think, @Gingitsune ? I've been registered to vote at a number of addresses in my lifetime, but I don't recall any particular checks. I just had to fill out a form with my name on it. I don't recall it having any particularly rigorous checks on it... no National Insurance number or anything like that.. merely a statement of my name and address. 

I guess alarm bells would ring if multiple people tried to register at the same address, or if the same names appeared at multiple addresses. Even then, in this day and age, I'm not sure how effective that would be. I'd be interested to know just how many Mahmoud Muhammeds where registered to vote. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

How far do you think you'll go with blatant lying? 

If you are blatant enough and don't bat an eye at logical inconsistencies; maybe president or prime minister or chancellor.  We at the very least president.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

Learn the difference between lying and just bringing something to everyone's attention.

Good advice for everyone from janitor to president.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

-_-... I have no idea which german news article is real or not. Me posting a article is lying? Get off your damn high horse, that isn't me lying at all, but relying on a article that I found while searching if they are doing that. I just figure I post it here, bringing it to everyone's attention. Learn the difference between lying and just bringing something to everyone's attention.

I asked for the source of the outrageously stupid claim 500,000 Syrian refugees voted.

You gave me link to the article that is not German, that is dated long before German elections and can be found only on sites that share one common trait: regurgitating Jones. 

toast just explained there was similar satire about Merkel and that's probably where from this idiocy about Schultz came.  

Even that thoroughly stupid and/or malicious article did not claim any refugee voted, it only falsely states that Martin Schultz would be in favour of giving voting rights to refugees. 

 

You gave link to that to prove half a million refugees voted.

So, either you deliberately spread disinformation (that's lying in everyday words), either you are victim of disinformation campaign (that's being not the sharpest tool in the shed). Which one do you like better?    

 

 

And the above is typical for the far right. They feel no particular obligations to tell the truth, or at least well constructed lie. They simply toss excrement around and see what sticks. Without shame, without responsibility, without brains.  

Which is how they betrayed their own ideology, among other things. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Which is how they betrayed their own ideology, among other things. 

That has been perhaps the most perplexing thing for me regarding the Trump phenomenon. If i had to take a label Im probably more an anarchist than anything else at this point  however I used to be an extreme right wing republican. I was active in the republican party for years (late 90's-mid oughts)  and was a true believer. Life and experience changed my views but .........

The party back then took pride in standing on its issues. They were the moral majority, they believed in right and wrong, they had firm positions. Maybe not the folks all the way at the top but the voters and the local staff for sure. IDK how much of that party was left before Trump but for christs sake the man was a democrat like 6 months before running as a republican, he has ZERO firm political stances, and morals? Please   

It seems as though there is no more ideology beyond beat the other guy - but for what? The two sides have become one. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm... I'm not so sure that voting in the UK is quite as secure as you might think, @Gingitsune ? I've been registered to vote at a number of addresses in my lifetime, but I don't recall any particular checks. I just had to fill out a form with my name on it. I don't recall it having any particularly rigorous checks on it... no National Insurance number or anything like that.. merely a statement of my name and address. 

I guess alarm bells would ring if multiple people tried to register at the same address, or if the same names appeared at multiple addresses. Even then, in this day and age, I'm not sure how effective that would be. I'd be interested to know just how many Mahmoud Muhammeds where registered to vote. 

Seriously? There is much more check in Canada at least. Last federal election, the list of voter residing in my house, which we receive by mail, was blank. I send some paperwork to my mother house earlier, so they put my address there. I had to show an identity card, the one which can be used are the state issued medical insurance card, the state issued driver license or the state issued passport, all of them have photos. I think military identity card works as well. To get the passport or the driver license, you need the medical insurance card. And to get medical insurance card, you need to be registered in the database, either at birth or when you emigrated.

One example of how precise the database is, last time I renew my passport, among the usual procedure, the clerk suddenly tell: "oh! You have a twin sister! Her passport is due, too." She probably shouldn't have say that much, but let me tell you, people don't think straight when twins are involved. Still, she could see I had a twin and the status of her passport.

In my last post, I had the Scandinavian countries in mind. From what I get, they don't do much of a census, because a lot of data are automatically put together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.