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Farmer77

Shakespeare Can kill Obama, But Not Trump

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Ive been talking about the 'victim mentality' that has crept into the right wing since Trump's election and perhaps no issue squarely highlights that than the "outrage" over the Julius Caesar Play . 


Why Shakespeare Can Assassinate Obama, But Not Trump 

Following the backlash from President Trump's supporters, Delta pulled funding from a Julius Caesar remake in which the Caesar character is given a Trump-like representation. Given that the airline sponsored an Obama version of the same play in 2012, the decision to revoke financial support in this instance has been criticized as hypocritical.

What makes the entire situation most baffling, however, is how thoroughly those upset with the existence of Trump-Caesar completely miss the play's point. As Isaac Butler over at Slate points out, the message Julius Caesar attempts to drive home is the ineffectiveness of violence. After all, Caesar's murderers eventually kill themselves after becoming the targets of an angry mob seeking to avenge their leader's death. And despite the mocking tone in which Trump-Caesar is portrayed, he is ultimately a heroic figure in the play. After his death, he is mourned by a devastated people.

 

It’s Outrageous to Suggest That Any Production of Julius Caesar Could Glamorize Assassination 

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I haven't seen any clips of the Obama version, but on the radio one caller said that the black actor looked and acted nothing like Obama while the Trump actor is very obviously representing him. Let me just say I think it's wrong in all cases as evidenced by the recent congressional shootings. Why not portray Caesar as.... Caesar? I condemned the Bush assassination video, along with the T-shirts showing Bush with a gun to his head, I condemned any suggestions of violence against Obama though I didn't see as much of that, and I condemn violence against not only Trump but all of our govt representatives. Wouldn't want to see a play about killing Pelosi even though I think she's useless and cluless.

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Just now, skliss said:

I haven't seen any clips of the Obama version, but on the radio one caller said that the black actor looked and acted nothing like Obama while the Trump actor is very obviously representing him. Let me just say I think it's wrong in all cases as evidenced by the recent congressional shootings. Why not portray Caesar as.... Caesar? I condemned the Bush assassination video, along with the T-shirts showing Bush with a gun to his head, I condemned any suggestions of violence against Obama though I didn't see as much of that, and I condemn violence against not only Trump but all of our govt representatives. Wouldn't want to see a play about killing Pelosi even though I think she's useless and cluless.

I dont really know you , so I cant judge but I imagine everyone screaming about how awful the play was will make the same comment you just did and will probably even believe it, yet most surely cant provide evidence of them making an issue of it when it wasnt their president of choice standing in as Caesar. 

 

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8 minutes ago, skliss said:

I haven't seen any clips of the Obama version, but on the radio one caller said that the black actor looked and acted nothing like Obama while the Trump actor is very obviously representing him. Let me just say I think it's wrong in all cases as evidenced by the recent congressional shootings. Why not portray Caesar as.... Caesar? I condemned the Bush assassination video, along with the T-shirts showing Bush with a gun to his head, I condemned any suggestions of violence against Obama though I didn't see as much of that, and I condemn violence against not only Trump but all of our govt representatives. Wouldn't want to see a play about killing Pelosi even though I think she's useless and cluless.

It seems to have become a tradition to have a play like this,  how close they are perceived to represent the potus each year with the Caesar role will always be up for debate as its ultimately perception based.

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Posted (edited)

I was curious about the 2012 "Obama" version, and followed the links to here:

http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Delta-Sponsored-2012-Guthrie-Theater-Season-Which-Featured-Obama-Inspired-Julius-Caesar-20170612

As to Delta Airlines, while they supported some portion of the Guthrie Theater's 2012 operations, they didn't have any financial connection to the specific Julius Caesar production after all (according to a Guthrie spokesperson quoted in the article).

I laughed at the basis on which the Guthrie Julius was made out to be Obama. The actor was a tall, lanky black man who wore a nicely pressed business suit onstage. Aren't we past that yet?

As to the difference in reception, I think context matters. There was no visible "mainstream" fantasizing about killing Obama. Compare Trump: a famous comedienne offers his severed head on social media, to name one recent example.

Whatever the view "of the play," its assassination scene is fantasy political violence. The prospect of Obama being assassinated would, I think, have been one of horror, even among his political opponents. The prospect of Trump being assassinated, at least in fantasy, has a documented constituency.

That's a difference.

Edited by eight bits
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3 minutes ago, eight bits said:

I was curious about the 2012 "Obama" version, and followed the links to here:

http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Delta-Sponsored-2012-Guthrie-Theater-Season-Which-Featured-Obama-Inspired-Julius-Caesar-20170612

As to Delta Airlines, while they supported some portion of the Guthrie Theater's 2012 operations, they didn't have any financial connection to the specific Julius Caesar production after all (according to a Guthrie spokesperson quoted in the article).

I laughed at the basis on which the Guthrie Julius was made out to be Obama. The actor was a tall, lanky black man who wore a nicely pressed business suit onstage. Aren't we past that yet?

As to the difference in reception, I think context matters. There was no visible "mainstream" fantasizing about killing Obama. Compare Trump: a famous comedienne offers his severed head on social media, to name one recent example.

Whatever the view "of the play," its assassination scene is fantasy political violence. The prospect of Obama being assassinated would, I think, have been one of horror, even among his political opponents. The prospect of Trump being assassinated, at least in fantasy, has a documented constituency.

That's a difference. Neither is "OK."

Isn't the play based on and around political violence?

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2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I dont really know you , so I cant judge but I imagine everyone screaming about how awful the play was will make the same comment you just did and will probably even believe it, yet most surely cant provide evidence of them making an issue of it when it wasnt their president of choice standing in as Caesar. 

 

I hadn't heard about the Obama one but IMO it's just asking for trouble to use any public person in that capacity.  Especially political leaders. I would have been just as against someone holding a replica of Kathy Griffins cut off head. She is a controversial person and engenders negative feelings towards herself on a regular basis. Can someone do these things? Sure, but just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should. You can do a modern day version of the play using a fictional leader from a fictional country and still get your point across.

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They weren't prevented from staging their production, and no one who found it offensive was compelled to watch or finance it. I don't see a problem, myself, just hypersensitivity to criticism on the stage company"s part, perhaps.

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4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

They weren't prevented from staging their production, and no one who found it offensive was compelled to watch or finance it. I don't see a problem, myself, just hypersensitivity to criticism on the stage company"s part, perhaps.

Indeed. THey may even have staged it just to get attention and hoping that they would be attacked for it. They sure seem to be acting as if one woman on the stage was the same thing as being stormed by the US Marines with guns blazing.

I like it when the Left shows us what they really are, what they fantasize about and how they see other people. The gory death of a US President acted out over and over could be a desperate attempt to convince some crazy to do the dirty deed for them... but that would be a matter for the courts to decide.

I for one have more interesting things to deal with.

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2 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Indeed. THey may even have staged it just to get attention and hoping that they would be attacked for it. They sure seem to be acting as if one woman on the stage was the same thing as being stormed by the US Marines with guns blazing.

I like it when the Left shows us what they really are, what they fantasize about and how they see other people. The gory death of a US President acted out over and over could be a desperate attempt to convince some crazy to do the dirty deed for them... but that would be a matter for the courts to decide.

I for one have more interesting things to deal with.

I find it rather amusing, watching the left squirm, when the Right tries to censor their free speech, for a change.

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Ive been talking about the 'victim mentality' that has crept into the right wing since Trump's election and perhaps no issue squarely highlights that than the "outrage" over the Julius Caesar Play . 


Why Shakespeare Can Assassinate Obama, But Not Trump 

Following the backlash from President Trump's supporters, Delta pulled funding from a Julius Caesar remake in which the Caesar character is given a Trump-like representation. Given that the airline sponsored an Obama version of the same play in 2012, the decision to revoke financial support in this instance has been criticized as hypocritical.

What makes the entire situation most baffling, however, is how thoroughly those upset with the existence of Trump-Caesar completely miss the play's point. As Isaac Butler over at Slate points out, the message Julius Caesar attempts to drive home is the ineffectiveness of violence. After all, Caesar's murderers eventually kill themselves after becoming the targets of an angry mob seeking to avenge their leader's death. And despite the mocking tone in which Trump-Caesar is portrayed, he is ultimately a heroic figure in the play. After his death, he is mourned by a devastated people.

 

It’s Outrageous to Suggest That Any Production of Julius Caesar Could Glamorize Assassination 

It isn't okay for any violence to be portrayed about a living person, that is the same as sending a death threat to the person. In my mind politics doesn't matter, but when the media and politicians are screaming for violent resistant, it is going to end in two ways. Either they realize these politicians and media is taking them for fools or they actual go through with it and tear the nation part. It is that simple. If the republicans were screaming for straight up resistant of a democratic party president on a new channel ever since the person decided to ran, I wouldn't be okay with this too. When are people going to get it through their thick skull, Violence Begets Violence, period. There is no justification for either parties to act that way. Liberal/Democratic party is currently going non-stop at this, crossing many lines that should be cross, and actively encouraged a mentally unstable person to attack a republican baseball team! That should tell you that it is too much and things need to calm down. There are some lines you shouldn't cross because it encourages others to cross those lines when you hold a powerful position that could actually influence people. Today our leaders in both parties are immature, arrogant, and straight up ignorant of consequences of their actions.

Edited by Uncle Sam
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What the hell is wrong with setting Julius freaking Caesar in Rome?

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6 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

I like it when the Left shows us what they really are, what they fantasize about and how they see other people. The gory death of a US President acted out over and over could be a desperate attempt to convince some crazy to do the dirty deed for them... but that would be a matter for the courts to decide.

DId you even bother to read the OP? :lol: 

By your logic the gory death of a US president over and over in 2012 (when they play was performed with an actor portraying Obama getting stabbed ) was a desperate attempt to convince some crazy to do the dirty deed for them. 

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I don't like the idea of doing the play with Obama or Trump. I don't like the idea of placing any President of the United States in such a role (not a good idea period).

Perhaps this I because I can personally remember President Kennedy being killed and President Reagan being wounded.

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Posted (edited)

On 6/19/2017 at 9:14 AM, Farmer77 said:

Ive been talking about the 'victim mentality' that has crept into the right wing since Trump's election and perhaps no issue squarely highlights that than the "outrage" over the Julius Caesar Play . 


Why Shakespeare Can Assassinate Obama, But Not Trump 

Following the backlash from President Trump's supporters, Delta pulled funding from a Julius Caesar remake in which the Caesar character is given a Trump-like representation. Given that the airline sponsored an Obama version of the same play in 2012, the decision to revoke financial support in this instance has been criticized as hypocritical.

What makes the entire situation most baffling, however, is how thoroughly those upset with the existence of Trump-Caesar completely miss the play's point. As Isaac Butler over at Slate points out, the message Julius Caesar attempts to drive home is the ineffectiveness of violence. After all, Caesar's murderers eventually kill themselves after becoming the targets of an angry mob seeking to avenge their leader's death. And despite the mocking tone in which Trump-Caesar is portrayed, he is ultimately a heroic figure in the play. After his death, he is mourned by a devastated people.

 

It’s Outrageous to Suggest That Any Production of Julius Caesar Could Glamorize Assassination 

I'm pretty sure, damn near positive, that William Shakespeare never even heard of Obama or Trump. He didn't write about either of them getting assassinated.

Edited by Bama13
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20 minutes ago, Bama13 said:

I'm pretty sure, damn near positive, that William Shakespeare never even heard of Obama or Trump. He didn't write about either of them getting assassinated.

You're right, he didn't.  But, the modernization of old plays to garner more interest among younger crowds certainly isn't something new.  

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