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U.S. Senate will Repeal & Replace ObamaCare


CeresExpo2000

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One step forward, two steps back.

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My healthcare is about to go up again and I might have no insurance because of Obamacare!!!!!!!

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17 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

One step forward, two steps back.

The ACA was intentionally designed to fail so that the country would accept single payer.  The plan the idiots in the Republican party are putting forward will only slow that process.  Everyone who isn't truly wealthy will get used to sub-standard doctors and long wait times.  The US government already provides health care - they call it the VA.  You may have heard of it.

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17 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

One step forward, two steps back.

The ACA was intentionally designed to fail so that the country would accept single payer.  The plan the idiots in the Republican party are putting forward will only slow that process.  Everyone who isn't truly wealthy will get used to sub-standard doctors and long wait times.  The US government already provides health care - they call it the VA.  You may have heard of it.

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18 hours ago, CeresExpo2000 said:

HHS Secretary Tom Price : No choice

"We must replace ObamaCare."

 

 

air traffic2.jpg

What a wonderful discussion you've got there.   Props. 

And this deceptive, vapid OP even made it look like Donald Trump actually signed something.  Something that Ted Cruz actually likes.

You want to start a discussion?   Let's discuss.  

What were the problems with healthcare in the US before Obamacare?    Before Obamacare.  

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9 hours ago, Yamato said:

What a wonderful discussion you've got there.   Props. 

And this deceptive, vapid OP even made it look like Donald Trump actually signed something.  Something that Ted Cruz actually likes.

You want to start a discussion?   Let's discuss.  

What were the problems with healthcare in the US before Obamacare?    Before Obamacare.  

That's the crux of the issue.  What Republicans views as the problems with healthcare is completely different that what Democrats view as the problems.  Basically Republicans care about the cost, whereas the Democrats care about the coverage.  Pre-Obamacare saw both the cost increasing the coverage decreasing.  Obamacare increased coverage but increased cost in the form of taxes to many and forced people to buy.  From what I am seeing with the Republican plan, it cuts costs but leaves more hurting.  It is the more social darwinistic of the two. 

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Just now, Gromdor said:

That's the crux of the issue.  What Republicans views as the problems with healthcare is completely different that what Democrats view as the problems.  Basically Republicans care about the cost, whereas the Democrats care about the coverage.  Pre-Obamacare saw both the cost increasing the coverage decreasing.  Obamacare increased coverage but increased cost in the form of taxes to many and forced people to buy.  From what I am seeing with the Republican plan, it cuts costs but leaves more hurting.  It is the more social darwinistic of the two. 

Funny while you're not wrong , their concerns about cost and coverage arent really about the citizenry, just the profit margins. 

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9 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Funny while you're not wrong , their concerns about cost and coverage arent really about the citizenry, just the profit margins. 

Well, both plans gave profits to insurance companies.  I was focusing on the differences =P

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2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

That's the crux of the issue.  What Republicans views as the problems with healthcare is completely different that what Democrats view as the problems.  Basically Republicans care about the cost, whereas the Democrats care about the coverage.  Pre-Obamacare saw both the cost increasing the coverage decreasing.  Obamacare increased coverage but increased cost in the form of taxes to many and forced people to buy.  From what I am seeing with the Republican plan, it cuts costs but leaves more hurting.  It is the more social darwinistic of the two. 

If that's true, then despite the naive good intentions of some politicians, they're both dead wrong.   The reason why "health care" is so expensive is because it has to cover every minor health affliction that might possibly annoy someone.   Add to that the fact that every "issue" government goes all in to tend to ("the war on terror", "health care", and "education" for three), the costs go through the roof!    It's so easy to fool the entire populations of unenlightened voters in this country, the drug companies have this horrible charade in the bag cash to bank.

But on the almost-meaningless issue of whether to vote for the Republican plan, if I had a 10 foot pole I would beat the plan not vote for it.

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2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Funny while you're not wrong , their concerns about cost and coverage arent really about the citizenry, just the profit margins. 

In the worse and worser cases I agree.   There's some dirty crooked people out there, interested in nothing more than playing the money motive.   Nucky Thompsons if you will.

But even if politicians are altruistic and well-meaning but career-oriented, they'll still fall right into the big hole that Big Pharma dug for them.  

The holes the voters fall into...are six feet deep.   Metaphorically, the voters dig their own holes.  Voters actually believe that what causes those big profits to happen are also the best ideas for their health.   That sir is a serious problem.   Islam can't even begin to keep up.

At least the politicians play dress up and behave like ladies and gentlemen and pretend to go debate the issues on the floor.

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1 hour ago, Yamato said:

In the worse and worser cases I agree.   There's some dirty crooked people out there, interested in nothing more than playing the money motive.   Nucky Thompsons if you will.

But even if politicians are altruistic and well-meaning but career-oriented, they'll still fall right into the big hole that Big Pharma dug for them.  

The holes the voters fall into...are six feet deep.   Metaphorically, the voters dig their own holes.  Voters actually believe that what causes those big profits to happen are also the best ideas for their health.   That sir is a serious problem.   Islam can't even begin to keep up.

At least the politicians play dress up and behave like ladies and gentlemen and pretend to go debate the issues on the floor.

Suddenly you are starting to sound like me now... :\

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On 6/23/2017 at 8:55 AM, ExpandMyMind said:

One step forward, two steps back.

I haven't read up on this newest bill to have a real opinion yet(although it's probably just more of the same crap), but Obamacare was not a step forward.

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Oh, really?

Yeah, sure they will.

One thing you can count on; a Republicant losing their nerve the moment a tough decision comes up.

 

Maggie didn't say "Now is not the time to go all wobbly, George." for nothing, and she didn't say it to a Democrat, either. 

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The Senate has delayed the vote. The proposed bill was an abomination. 

The way I see it, you guys need to be doing something about your entire healthcare industry in general. It's the biggest racket in the US. Weren't they charging like $75 for cotton buds and all sorts of astronomical prices for normal everyday things? It needs sorted from the ground up, first by reining in the insurance companies. 

Universal healthcare is a fundamental human right. For the 'richest' country in the world to have people die simply because they are poor is just disgusting. In the UK our system isn't perfect, mainly because progressive corrupt governments have stripped it bare, but it's still better than what a lot of people in the US have available to them. 

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15 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The Senate has delayed the vote. The proposed bill was an abomination. 

The way I see it, you guys need to be doing something about your entire healthcare industry in general. It's the biggest racket in the US. Weren't they charging like $75 for cotton buds and all sorts of astronomical prices for normal everyday things? It needs sorted from the ground up, first by reining in the insurance companies. 

Universal healthcare is a fundamental human right. For the 'richest' country in the world to have people die simply because they are poor is just disgusting. In the UK our system isn't perfect, mainly because progressive corrupt governments have stripped it bare, but it's still better than what a lot of people in the US have available to them. 

Major problem is nobody understands the system, it is complex beyond all belief. Prices particularly are opaque. MRI cost one thing Monday and another Tuesday. Doctor you never saw before pokes his head in the door of your hospital room and tells you to wiggle your toes, that gets added to your bill. Current "system" is not really a system at all, just an arbitrary accumulation of practices and institutions of the past that now work together poorly. Sweeping, radical change probably is necessary but hard to do because of political inertia. Some resistance to government healthcare just for cultural/traditional reasons, distrust of government etc. But currently the myriad private insurers have recreated all the bureaucracy of other countries' government healthcare systems without providing equivalent coverage! Worst of both worlds. :huh:

Now if I were in charge ... *puts on red MAGA hat* ... I would do one of two things:

1. Study all the best foreign health systems and just copy the one that work best based on most commonly accepted metrics. Singapore has a nice system with some liberal and conservative features, might be good compromise. Canada is also worth study because of its similarity with large geographic area like US and culturally very similar.

Alternatively:

2. Take one of the existing programs, either Medicare (covers the elderly) or Medicaid (covers the poor) and just expand it to cover everyone.

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UPDATE: House passed Torte Reform!

Couldn't do it under Obama.  The Dems are in cahoots with the Trial Lawyers!

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On 6/24/2017 at 2:41 AM, Princess Serenity said:

My healthcare is about to go up again and I might have no insurance because of Obamacare!!!!!!!

Obamacare was 1 Big Lie.

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On 6/23/2017 at 11:41 PM, Princess Serenity said:

My healthcare is about to go up again and I might have no insurance because of Obamacare!!!!!!!

The health care my company buys for me has gone up every year for the past 25.  We keep changing vendors and employee contribution increases every year while benefits go down.  That has been happening a lot longer than the ACA has been around.  I thinkit has a lot more to do with medical, drug, and insurance companies than anything else.

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On 6/24/2017 at 0:59 PM, Gromdor said:

That's the crux of the issue.  What Republicans views as the problems with healthcare is completely different that what Democrats view as the problems.  Basically Republicans care about the cost, whereas the Democrats care about the coverage.  Pre-Obamacare saw both the cost increasing the coverage decreasing.  Obamacare increased coverage but increased cost in the form of taxes to many and forced people to buy.  From what I am seeing with the Republican plan, it cuts costs but leaves more hurting.  It is the more social darwinistic of the two. 

The reason BOTH parties are screwed on health care is that they want to make it an entitlement.  Once that's done, the "government" pays for everything.  The problem with THAT is that then the government will also make all the rules and decide what things cost.  That will destroy healthcare as we've known it.  Eventually, when the smoke clears, there will be a two-tiered system.  The truly wealthy will pay for service and everyone else will wait and wait for whatever the government has determined they are eligible to have.  People actually WILL die while waiting.  Again, if anyone wants to see what government run healthcare will look like - do a little research on the V.A. Medical system.

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8 hours ago, and then said:

The reason BOTH parties are screwed on health care is that they want to make it an entitlement.  Once that's done, the "government" pays for everything.  The problem with THAT is that then the government will also make all the rules and decide what things cost.  That will destroy healthcare as we've known it.  Eventually, when the smoke clears, there will be a two-tiered system.  The truly wealthy will pay for service and everyone else will wait and wait for whatever the government has determined they are eligible to have.  People actually WILL die while waiting.  Again, if anyone wants to see what government run healthcare will look like - do a little research on the V.A. Medical system.

As harsh as it seems, that is the idea I feel is best.  A basic universal healthcare system as a form of national defense.  A disease breeding and spreading among the poor and uninsured could destroy America as easily as any military attack.  It should have waiting lists and be crappy though.  That way people will be incentivized to work and buy private insurance.

 We have a British radio talk show host here in Iowa that complains about how public insurance killed his father.  Every time I hear him though I can't help but think to myself, "Why did he stay on it instead of buying private insurance then?"  At least he had a public insurance to die on.  There is a good possibility that people here in the US won't even have that.

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8 hours ago, and then said:

The reason BOTH parties are screwed on health care is that they want to make it an entitlement.  Once that's done, the "government" pays for everything.  The problem with THAT is that then the government will also make all the rules and decide what things cost.  That will destroy healthcare as we've known it.  Eventually, when the smoke clears, there will be a two-tiered system.  The truly wealthy will pay for service and everyone else will wait and wait for whatever the government has determined they are eligible to have.  People actually WILL die while waiting.  Again, if anyone wants to see what government run healthcare will look like - do a little research on the V.A. Medical system.

Give us anything but the Canadian Single Payer / Public Option.

Free Market Solution

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8 minutes ago, CeresExpo2000 said:

Give us anything but the Canadian Single Payer / Public Option.

Free Market Solution

LOL, that would have been Obamacare.  Free market solution with forced participation.

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Just now, Gromdor said:

LOL, that would have been Obamacare.  Free market solution with forced participation.

Just get rid of the mandates.

Stop pointing a gun at 27 year olds and making them buy health insurance.  OPTIONAL, no mandate = Freedom

 

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We should just go to concierge or membership medicine.  You pay a monthly fee for unlimited routine care.  Then sign up for catastrophic insurance for a few dollars a month.  Have a certain time period so that the new member must go through to become vested (with basic care only) to prevent people from jumping in at the last minute when they have an emergency.  For those that do will be on the hook for the full cost.  But allow that person's federal taxes go to pay off the debt.  And while paying off their debt this way will not be eligible for any other welfare.  Ensure that no person can be exempt from coverage but at the same time allow the insurance companies to dump a certain number their highest risk persons annually onto the government and have the government budget $50 billion to cover those needs.  These will usually be those whose quality of life is near an end and they shouldn’t be cheated of that.  This will allow those that do not want or do not need coverage at this time and not to be forced to pay.  This removes the single payer option and puts responsibility on the individual.

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