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Running out of steam here...


reportaufo

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1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Your is "it were aliens", well stagger me with one piece of evidence for THAT.

No. I've never said that. 

Anyway I asked you to square your belief with everything we know about the modern UFO era and you can't do that because it does't add up.

 

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14 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I refuse to believe that beings capable of cross the VAST gulf of space crash on this rock with what appears to be shocking regularity. 

You are so worried about crashing Aliens that you can't talk to me rationally! I've never said anything about Aliens!

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42 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I refuse to believe that beings capable of cross the VAST gulf of space crash on this rock with what appears to be shocking regularity. 

1

If the only reason you don't believe they are aliens is that they crash, how many crashes do you know vs how many visits? What if they visited millions of times, but only crashed a few? Not saying there are aliens, but your reasoning is a little flawed. 

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20 hours ago, taniwha said:

Well, I think either they have or they haven't visited earth, that's the only two possibilities. 

No one can prove we have been visited by alien craft, that is just the reality so therefore its more than likely the reality of that means that we are alone and just as likely always have been.

And if that is the truth then those who believe that we have been visited by UFOs or interplanetary aliens without a shred of hard evidence to present are just as strange, if not stranger.

Wanting something to be true does not mean it is true, nevertheless not all things are knowable.

And who amongst us can say what tomorrow will bring?

We all want to believe in something :) There is a lot more evidence to believe aliens visited vs the existence of a god. So we are not the crazy ones.

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20 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Have you personally had a UFO experience?

What sparked your interest in the subject?

Personally I probably would be among the skeptics had I not seen a fly saucer with my own eyes. Actually I probably wouldn't have enough interest in the subject to even be considered a skeptic. 

Now where they came from, or who is flying them, I have no idea. One thing I know for certain is they exist.  

So I'll keep looking up, and hoping one day it will return for a visit. I'd love to be able to show people here that I really saw what I did that summer night back in the early 90's. 

It was probably a once in a lifetime thing though, so I'm not gonna hold my breath.

 

 

I don't particularly remember what sparked my interest, but I have witnessed something I couldn't explain and heard 2 stories from close people. I'll share them:

My story: I used to live in Orlando, FL about 4-5 years ago. One night I was drinking and icy drink sitting on the patio in my house looking up into the night sky. I've done this many times, but only things I saw was airplanes aligning to land at the MCO. This particular night I saw a US penny size white disk suddenly appear way up in the sky and instantly start moving south until it went over my roof and I couldn't track it anymore. To be honest, it scared the **** out of me :) I've never seen anything like that. The small disk was not glowing white it was simply cloudy white color, It was as if the disk was made of vapor with darker center, but it did not fall down, it was as if someone had turned it on and the second it came on/appeared it started to move really fast. This was my story.

Another story came from my programmer. He is Russian and full disclosure - he does have schizophrenia but takes medication for it. I worked with him for 5 years remotely and to be honest, he is one of the best programmers I know, always meticulous and logical in his work. He told me a story way before he knew I was interested in the subject. He says that he and his friends went fishing in Lake Baykal, the fishing season was over, but the guard was their friend so he let them in. I don't remember at what point in time, but the story was that a round glowing object was seen by them about a kilometer from where they were slowly going in and out of the water repeatedly. He said they just stood there in shock and after some time had passed, he turned around to get cigarettes from his jacket, which was hanging on the tree because he was getting a little nervous, and in that second when he turned and looked at the tree, the tree went white. The object shined a huge bright white light at them and then instantly flew away. He was fine, but his friends had to seek medical attention and the doctor prescribed some eye drops and told them they had the same symptoms as if they were starring and a welding process without the goggles. 

In 3-4 years time following the story, we continued to work together. He never told me any similar stories since that one time, even after finding out I was interested in the subject.

The third story I have will have to wait, my dog needs walking and I have work to do )) 

Edited by reportaufo
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49 minutes ago, reportaufo said:

If the only reason you don't believe they are aliens is that they crash, how many crashes do you know vs how many visits? What if they visited millions of times, but only crashed a few? Not saying there are aliens, but your reasoning is a little flawed. 

What visits?

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The man who believes aliens are routinely visiting us tells me I have flawed reasoning? 

 

I have no evidence AT ALL for either side of the question so am just spit balling ideas.

At least Im considering both bloody sides of the question and not stubbornly denying things I dont want to hear.

 

Colud it be little green men? Bog all evidence for it.

Could it be a military cober up? Bog all evidence for that too.

Maybe its faeries having a laugh. Theres bog all evidence for that too, sp its just as likely as little green men.

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10 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The man who believes aliens are routinely visiting us tells me I have flawed reasoning? 

 

I have no evidence AT ALL for either side of the question so am just spit balling ideas.

At least Im considering both bloody sides of the question and not stubbornly denying things I dont want to hear.

 

Colud it be little green men? Bog all evidence for it.

Could it be a military cober up? Bog all evidence for that too.

Maybe its faeries having a laugh. Theres bog all evidence for that too, sp its just as likely as little green men.

Did I say they are visiting routinely? :)  Nope. But for you to say "I refuse to believe that beings capable of cross the VAST gulf of space crash on this rock with what appears to be a shocking regularity." you must have visits vs crash statistics. If they visited us thousands of times and only crashed a couple, I don't thing it looks that bad.

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1 hour ago, reportaufo said:

My story: I used to live in Orlando, FL about 4-5 years ago. One night I was drinking and icy drink sitting on the patio in my house looking up into the night sky. I've done this many times, but only things I saw was airplanes aligning to land at the MCO. This particular night I saw a US penny size white disk ...

Another story came from my programmer. He is Russian and full disclosure - he does have schizophrenia...

 

So, your story, basically you saw something in the sky that you couldn't identify. It could be anything.
Second story, well, mental disease. I had students with schizophrenia before and I have to tell you that they told me some incredible stories about stuff they've seen but it's just product of a disease so I don't know if I would believe in a story like that to be honest.

Btw, personally I don't believe in god either so the whole alien visit vs existence of god evidence is pretty much the same. There's no such evidence about "aliens visiting the earth", like really strong evidence just people talking, stories, blurry photos (most of them faked). Anyway, you got my point. 

Edit: This is not a matter of faith, I would love to see some strong evidence and not just bits of stories. 

 

Edited by MrBene
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1 minute ago, MrBene said:

So, your story, basically you saw something in the sky that you couldn't identify. It could be anything.
Second story, well, mental disease. I had students with schizophrenia before and I have to tell you that they told me some incredible stories about stuff they've seen but it's just product of a disease so I don't know if I would believe in a story like that to be honest.

Btw, personally I don't believe in god either so the whole alien visit vs existence of god evidence is pretty much the same. There's no such evidence about "aliens visiting the earth", like really strong evidence just people talking, stories, blurry photos (most of them faked). Anyway, you got my point. 

Faire enough, I understand your point. Now, how come this website has more skeptics than an actual science forum? :) For people who do not believe in the unexplained, you guys frequent here too much. Why waste time? 

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We don't waste time, actually UM is like a service. When I joined I even believed in ghosts. I educated myself thanks to this forum. If people come here thinking they cannot be educated in simple scientific stuff is because they refuse to accept that they were wrong or they refuse to consider themselves ignorants. I mean, not many people would agree to expose themselves as that and I understand but UM is a great source for answers. There are many people with deep knowledge in all kinds of science here, honestly I learned so much here.

The pun is: the "unexplained" is basically well explained in UM. Some people refuse to accept the truth because they rather believe in a fantasy. We all came here because we wanted the truth and we found it (in many different topics). Some people refuse to accept it, that's all.  

EDIT: I will give you an excellent example. Once here in this forum someone posted a video of a foggy city and some lights in the sky appearing and disappearing. The video wasn't blurry, actually it had really high quality. At first I thought this was like "THE EVIDENCE". But the guys here didn't take it for granted. They made some research and actually one member knew the location and went there. There was a huge crane there in a foggy day. You couldn't see the crane in the video but you could see the lights. If this was so simple, imagine how many unexplained stuff could be explained. That video was taken by so many websites and people that never thought of the possibility of carrying out a simple investigation. They just repeated the same old dead horse over and over again. That's not the search of the truth, that's just being lazy. 

Edited by MrBene
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26 minutes ago, MrBene said:

We don't waste time, actually UM is like a service. When I joined I even believed in ghosts. I educated myself thanks to this forum. If people come here thinking they cannot be educated in simple scientific stuff is because they refuse to accept that they were wrong or they refuse to consider themselves ignorants. I mean, not many people would agree to expose themselves as that and I understand but UM is a great source for answers. There are many people with deep knowledge in all kinds of science here, honestly I learned so much here.

The pun is: the "unexplained" is basically well explained in UM. Some people refuse to accept the truth because they rather believe in a fantasy. We all came here because we wanted the truth and we found it (in many different topics). Some people refuse to accept it, that's all.  

EDIT: I will give you an excellent example. Once here in this forum someone posted a video of a foggy city and some lights in the sky appearing and disappearing. The video wasn't blurry, actually it had really high quality. At first I thought this was like "THE EVIDENCE". But the guys here didn't take it for granted. They made some research and actually one member knew the location and went there. There was a huge crane there in a foggy day. You couldn't see the crane in the video but you could see the lights. If this was so simple, imagine how many unexplained stuff could be explained. That video was taken by so many websites and people that never thought of the possibility of carrying out a simple investigation. They just repeated the same old dead horse over and over again. That's not the search of the truth, that's just being lazy. 

I understand, but I am not that gullible. :)

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8 hours ago, ufoscan said:

Personally, I think there is no chance of that whatsoever.  If they had that type of technology, they wouldn't be parading it over cities and little villages, they would be using it in combat.

You could be right, I really don't know. I do know that what is supposed to be the most advanced aircraft we have, is several decades old. 

I remember thinking as I watched a small saucer craft flying over my house for a half hour, that if man could make such a machine, it would look just like that. 

Though you do make a good point. If it is military I don't understand why they would fly it in places it could be seen. Maybe they want people to think there are aliens. Or maybe they want our enemies to get small glimpses of our capabilities. 

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7 hours ago, ufoscan said:

 

But all along, there have been countless UFO sightings by individuals that have nothing to do with the UFO community and want nothing to do with it.  They've experienced something very strange, but they know well how this society works.  If you speak up, you'll be ridiculed, made a fool of and called crazy.  Most normal people would rather dispense with that and just keep silent about what they observed.

But there is indeed a real UFO phenomenon and it is being seen by many.  And I can say that with some conviction because I experienced it myself.  And the only way you will hear about it is to regularly bring up the subject in social context and you will - sooner or later - hear from people who will take you aside and tell you what they experienced.  But you'll never hear about those people on YouTube.

So the problem here has nothing to do with "the government" hiding secrets about UFOs.  It has to do with society as a whole rejecting the possibility and tearing apart anyone who entertains it.
 

I think being uncertain of what you witnesses is enough in itself to remain silent about it, why would you fuss about something that you can't even identify? 

Of course you may easily make yourself feel like a fool, how do you begin describing something that is in essence unexplainable?  Eyewitness accounts, no matter how sincere can only ever be perceived by others as hazy pareidolia at best. Try describing the full moon to someone who has never seen it, and get them to draw it, it would be interesting to see the picture.

If there is an actual alien ufo phenomenon somewhere in the world at any given moment then how do you explain that they continue to defy modern technology?

Even if you were born on the bayou, most people in the modern world are connected to camera phone, live streaming, Dash cams, surveillance etc, 

My  belief is that modern technology has freed a lot more people via the internet, by exposing widespread ufo hoaxes, scammers and worse for what they really are. Denial then anger then acceptance... the 3 stages of ufo wisdom.

Of course it's not beyond the realms of sci-fi that alien craft are in fact here, occupying a different  dimension due to their faster than light travel but that's another story :P 

 

In the words of the late great BM - 

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds..."

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10 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Or maybe they want our enemies to get small glimpses of our capabilities. 

 

I personally don't think so. If you show the enemies that such propulsion is possible to accomplish, they will throw all their resources to try and develop the same technology. Also, If the phenomena exist, I highly doubt that it has anything to do with our military. If it did, they wouldn't just randomly fly in random countries, simply because if they crash on someone else's territory, they will get access to the technology. 

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4 minutes ago, reportaufo said:

I personally don't think so. If you show the enemies that such propulsion is possible to accomplish, they will throw all their resources to try and develop the same technology. Also, If the phenomena exist, I highly doubt that it has anything to do with our military. If it did, they wouldn't just randomly fly in random countries, simply because if they crash on someone else's territory, they will get access to the technology. 

 

I think  the Military were as confused as anyone about the phenomenon. I would even suggest that parts of the military were convinced that the phenomenon was ET.....

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3 hours ago, reportaufo said:

We all want to believe in something :) There is a lot more evidence to believe aliens visited vs the existence of a god. So we are not the crazy ones.

Do you have a key to the alien tabernacle?

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1 hour ago, reportaufo said:

I personally don't think so. If you show the enemies that such propulsion is possible to accomplish, they will throw all their resources to try and develop the same technology. Also, If the phenomena exist, I highly doubt that it has anything to do with our military. If it did, they wouldn't just randomly fly in random countries, simply because if they crash on someone else's territory, they will get access to the technology. 

For folks like myself, it's disappointing that most people haven't seen a UFO. Especially a really good long sighting like the one I had, where there is no way to mistake what you saw. 

I think these conversations could be a lot more productive when starting from the knowledge that they do in fact exist. And that there are ligit testimonies of their existence. 

It kinda sucks knowing there are people who think it's at least possible that no one has ever really seen anything like it. Not that I could blame them. If the stars didn't align on that one night where I just happen to be in the right place at the right time, I'd be among them. Once you have seen a UFO, in a way that it couldn't be mistaken for anything else, you can never go back. 

I really hope that one day these conversations can start from at least the knowledge that they do exist. Even if we still have no idea where they came from.

As far as my comments on them possibly being military, I don't have a solid stance on it at all. Just shooting in the dark considering possibilities.  Though I think I stand on some solid ground when I say we have craft that are far more advanced then they would have us believe. There is no way our best craft is over 40 years old. 

Edited by preacherman76
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2 hours ago, reportaufo said:

Faire enough, I understand your point. Now, how come this website has more skeptics than an actual science forum? :) For people who do not believe in the unexplained, you guys frequent here too much. Why waste time? 

I think this is some folks' way of killing time after work. It's not an actual scientific pursuit. Before this forum I was on another one but it leaned too far on the conspiracy/downright bull**** side of things. Folks got mad at me because I called bs on people who would say things like they can manipulate thousands of people simultaneously with their mind. I left, I couldn't take it. So I came here and this forum leans on the other side haha. No biggy though I don't get offended.

 

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1 minute ago, internetperson said:

I think this is some folks' way of killing time after work. It's not an actual scientific pursuit. Before this forum I was on another one but it leaned too far on the conspiracy/downright bull**** side of things. Folks got mad at me because I called bs on people who would say things like they can manipulate thousands of people simultaneously with their mind. I left, I couldn't take it. So I came here and this forum leans on the other side haha. No biggy though I don't get offended.

 

Yea it can be frustrating knowing there are people who would say things like that. Personally I don't really have a solid stance on anything paranormal, but I definitely believe there are things that are very possible. I get that from my own personal experiences. 

Id hope that you would at least consider it possible that certain things might be possible, even if there are crazy people who take things way to far. Just cause they exist, and say crazy things, isn't necessarily a reason to throw out the baby with the bath water. 

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32 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Id hope that you would at least consider it possible that certain things might be possible, even if there are crazy people who take things way to far.

I absolutely do. I think we're on the same page with the UFO phenomenon.

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8 hours ago, taniwha said:


 

Quote

I think being uncertain of what you witnesses is enough in itself to remain silent about it, why would you fuss about something that you can't even identify? 

The witnesses I talked to as well as myself were not uncertain at all.  It's not about that but about the ridicule that comes with just saying that you had a UFO sighting.

Quote

Eyewitness accounts, no matter how sincere can only ever be perceived by others as hazy pareidolia at best.

But that's only the case because of the prejudice people have in regards the phenomenon.  Should you describe a new model car, people would not ridicule it because we accept that cars exist.

Quote

My  belief is that modern technology has freed a lot more people via the internet, by exposing widespread ufo hoaxes, scammers and worse for what they really are. Denial then anger then acceptance... the 3 stages of ufo wisdom.

If you've seen my posts here over the years, you would know that most of them are about debunking all the hoaxes perpetrated over the years, beginning with some of the first published pictures to the most recent ones as well as all of the fake UFO claims.  This is why I said that the UFO community is the last place to find legitimate information on the UFO phenomenon.

But yeah, I was the first one to publicly denounce the Gulf Breeze case many years ago in a magazine article, wrote at length on the Meier case and still contribute to a website that meticulously takes that case apart.  I also - over twenty years ago - gave a series of conferences on UFO photographic trickery - and that was all about the fakes that were created in the fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties.  (Just to fill you in:  I have a background in photography...)

 

Quote

If there is an actual alien ufo phenomenon somewhere in the world at any given moment then how do you explain that they continue to defy modern technology?

That's not for the witness to explain.  All one can do is describe what was seen.  But I'll venture a guess that if a civilization is several thousand years in advance over us in technology, they pretty much could do anything they please.  They may have gained a way of controlling the fabric of matter that is totally beyond our understanding.

 

Quote

Of course it's not beyond the realms of sci-fi that alien craft are in fact here, occupying a different  dimension due to their faster than light travel but that's another story :P 

Making absurd comments is definitely one of the ways that keep true witnesses silent.  But to address your point, the more likely explanation is cloaking technology.  The US army is right now working on invisibility shields.  And again, for a civilization having a few thousand years in advance over us, such cloaking would likely not present any problems.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/new-invisibility-cloak-device-can-hide-almost-anything/

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18 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

For folks like myself, it's disappointing that most people haven't seen a UFO. Especially a really good long sighting like the one I had, where there is no way to mistake what you saw. 

I think these conversations could be a lot more productive when starting from the knowledge that they do in fact exist. And that there are ligit testimonies of their existence. 

No one said that I didn't experience or saw a UFO. Actually I did, several times but like the term suggests: it was something that I couldn't identify due to the nature of my ignorance in the sky, stars, astronomy in general, military/plane machinery, rockets etc. How can you say that something it wasn't something when you never saw that something before? Like, how can you state that something wasn't a natural phenomena or a plane when you never saw such things in certain climate/weather/any_variable context? I won't play the alien card. That's for sure. In other topics I've even experienced "ghostly" phenomena like weird stuff, we've seen something really weird on the road at night while touring with my band and again, I wouldn't play the "I saw a ghost" card because it could be anything. When you don't know many things it's easy to just say "it's paranormal" and that's actually quite normal, ancient civilizations made sense of natural phenomena with stories, entities and such. 

There was a woman on Argentinean TV recently giving a lecture about "gnome-logy", like where gnomes live, what do they eat and such. She talks like gnomes really exist. She gets air TV space. She makes money. Facepalm.   

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14 hours ago, ufoscan said:

The witnesses I talked to as well as myself were not uncertain at all.  It's not about that but about the ridicule that comes with just saying that you had a UFO sighting.

Yeah you can let that be a setback or just move onwards. Who ridiculed you anyway?
Maybe your description lacked believe ability?

14 hours ago, ufoscan said:

 

But that's only the case because of the prejudice people have in regards the phenomenon.  Should you describe a new model car, people would not ridicule it because we accept that cars exist.

 

It's true, people don't deny a new model of car exists.

Not many people would go to the extreme of faking a sighting of one though would they?

But it's a big leap to convince people that the new model of car defies shape, speed, colour, size and space limits, can fly in and out and cloak itself invisible and is test driven by alien beings. Yes, without proof even that would be ridiculed, even if you did describe it in expert fashion.

14 hours ago, ufoscan said:

 

If you've seen my posts here over the years, you would know that most of them are about debunking all the hoaxes perpetrated over the years, beginning with some of the first published pictures to the most recent ones as well as all of the fake UFO claims.  This is why I said that the UFO community is the last place to find legitimate information on the UFO phenomenon.

But yeah, I was the first one to publicly denounce the Gulf Breeze case many years ago in a magazine article, wrote at length on the Meier case and still contribute to a website that meticulously takes that case apart.  I also - over twenty years ago - gave a series of conferences on UFO photographic trickery - and that was all about the fakes that were created in the fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties.  (Just to fill you in:  I have a background in photography...)

 

But you are convinced alien craft are flying around our planet right now, correct?

 

14 hours ago, ufoscan said:

 

14 hours ago, ufoscan said:

 

Making absurd comments is definitely one of the ways that keep true witnesses silent.  

Wow. For someone who speaks against prejudice you sure are fluent in it.  Now I get the impression you are either paranoid or something I have said really is absurd enough to keep the true witnesses silent. So what troubles you so much?

Of course now I have to ask who decides who  a true witness is?

Are you considered a true witnesses by anyone other than yourself?

14 hours ago, ufoscan said:

  But to address your point, the more likely explanation is cloaking technology.  The US army is right now working on invisibility shields.  And again, for a civilization having a few thousand years in advance over us, such cloaking would likely not present any problems.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/new-invisibility-cloak-device-can-hide-almost-anything/

Science fact can inspire science fiction and vice versa and sometimes the lines become merged...

 

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