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Astra.

Kim Jong Un Fires Off Another Missile.

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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/north-korea-fires-ballistic-missile-toward-east-sea-official-says-n779401

North Korea fired a ballistic missile from its eastern coast toward the East Sea on Tuesday, military officials said.

The launch — one of several this year — was detected at about 9:40 a.m. local time (8:40 p.m. ET Monday), a South Korean military official told NBC News.

U.S. Pacific Command in Hawaii said it detected what it assessed as an intermediate-range ballistic missile near North Korea's Panghyon Airfield. The missile was tracked for 37 minutes and landed in the Sea of Japan, it said.

 

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I guess there's nothing to be said that hasn't been said before. The situation looks pretty untenable though.

If reports on this ICBM test are correct, this puts Alaska within range. I can't imagine America is going to accept "urged restraint" from China indefinitely.

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This time Lil' Kim appears to have really raised the stakes. Fox News is reporting basically the same thing:

 http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/07/04/north-korea-claims-to-have-test-launched-its-first-icbm.html

This isn't good at all. Trump just put the squeeze on a Chinese bank that does business with the North Koreans. Time to take Kim Jong-Un very seriously I'd say.

 

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Quote
Moscow and Beijing have agreed that North Korea should freeze its nuclear and missile programs, while the US and South Korea should abstain from holding war games in the region, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.

We’ve agreed to promote our joint initiative, based on Russian step-by-step Korean settlement plan and Chinese ideas to simultaneously freeze North Korean nuclear and missile activities, and US and South Korean joint military drills,” Putin said at a press conference after meeting with China’s leader, Xi Jinping, in Moscow.

Moscow and Beijing have agreed that North Korea should freeze its nuclear and missile programs, while the US and South Korea should abstain from holding war games in the region, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.

We’ve agreed to promote our joint initiative, based on Russian step-by-step Korean settlement plan and Chinese ideas to simultaneously freeze North Korean nuclear and missile activities, and US and South Korean joint military drills,” Putin said at a press conference after meeting with China’s leader, Xi Jinping, in Moscow.

https://www.rt.com/news/395244-north-korea-nuclear-us-drills-stop/

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Well, really.  They need to stop antagonizing each other.  What do they think will happen if they keep picking at each other?

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It's a new one which no one has seen before

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21 hours ago, glorybebe said:

Well, really.  They need to stop antagonizing each other.  What do they think will happen if they keep picking at each other?

North Korea doesn't care

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14 hours ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

North Korea doesn't care

Un certainly seems unfazed.  If I knew that two U.S. carrier groups were well within strike range of the chair I was sitting in, I think I'd have a care, but that's just me.  

I heard a couple of different pundits make U.S. choices very succinct and clear.  We either accept a nuclear NK with a possibly unhinged thug on the trigger or we go to war.  I don't it has gotten quite that black and white yet.  Fatboy is China's rabid dog and if China wants him caged or put down, they have the capacity to do so.  I think once we have staged our forces to be ready at a moments notice for attacking the north, we should TELL Xi that the clock is ticking and if America has to lose thousands of troops as well as potentially millions of SK allies, they can rest assured that Japan will become a nuclear power nearly overnight and that we are in negotiations with Taiwan for helping them create their own nuke capability.  IOW, if this bloodletting is forced to happen because of a Chinese political p***ing contest, they WILL lose.

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IIRC, China is in a position to benefit from the current NK sanctions; and argue the current sanctions haven't worked because has not everyone has adhered to them.  Not to mention that NK is pushing back against China too.

KJU's bluffing is more to secure his continued rule.  The monument to his father and grand-father depicts the struggle against imperialism.  While that image is maintained so does his rule.

Is THAAD capable of shooting these missiles down?  If that happened Kim's grand image would be tarnished. However, history suggests, that may not be the best idea.  Any "Restoration" I suspect would continue the struggle against the evil imperialist.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/05/a-gift-for-the-american-b*******-north-koreas-kim-fires-back-at-trump

That Dennis Rodman is the still the figurehead for communication between the West and NK communication is just crazy.

Trump's previous talk of meeting Kim personally still seems, IMO, the best idea.  Give Kim the leverage he needs inside NK; and keep the predictable devil you know.

Trump literally wrote the book on this, didn't he?

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8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Give Kim the leverage he needs inside NK

The leverage of having a credible threat of a nuclear strike on U.S. soil?  That leverage?  Because that is exactly what he means to have.  That is a crime family with an army and the dear leader, KJ Fatboy has proven he is completely unpredictable.  No thanks.  Our choice is grim but it only gets worse with time.  This whole episode is just a test of Trump's backbone.  China has to know how far he can be pushed.  I guarantee that if our diplomats talk Trump into any kind of concessions, we'll not only have the Fatboy coming back for more but China and Russia BOTH will start pushing us.  War on the peninsula is apt to be breathtaking in its savagery and loss of life but our only other choice seems to be to kneel before that short, fat manure pile.  I wonder how Xi would react to a phone call that told him we were in negotiations with Taiwan to help them into the nuclear club...  THIS is not the hill Xi wants to see his country die on.

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I wonder what would happen if the US simply took out all of Lil' Kim's missiles? The US has some pretty big non-nuclear bombs, just use a few to literally wipe out NK's missile program.

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44 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I wonder what would happen if the US simply took out all of Lil' Kim's missiles? The US has some pretty big non-nuclear bombs, just use a few to literally wipe out NK's missile program.

Sounds like a plan, but the mobile launchers would be hard to take out.

Of course it was a mobile launcher that was used in this last launch. As much as I would like to see a military resolution, South Korea and Japan would probably get slammed.

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1 hour ago, and then said:

The leverage of . having a credibl, e threat of a nuclear strike on U.S. soil?  That leverage?  Because that is exactly what he means to have.  That is a crime family with an army and the dear leader, KJ Fatboy has proven he is completely unpredictable.  No thanks.  Our choice is grim but it only gets worse with time.  This whole episode is just a test of Trump's backbone.  China has to know how far he can be pushed.  I guarantee that if our diplomats talk Trump into any kind of concessions, we'll not only have the Fatboy coming back for more but China and Russia BOTH will start pushing us.  War on the peninsula is apt to be breathtaking in its savagery and loss of life but our only other choice seems to be to kneel before that short, fat manure pile.  I wonder how Xi would react to a phone call that told him we were in negotiations with Taiwan to help them into the nuclear club...  THIS is not the hill Xi wants to see his country die o. n.

Well Xi will say, fine go ahead arm Taiwan in return we will arm Iran, Cuba, Palestine , Lebanon  and the list goes on

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I suspect that Kim Jong-Un is anally retentive, and the North Korean missile launches are his way of letting off steam.

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6 hours ago, Lilly said:

I wonder what would happen if the US simply took out all of Lil' Kim's missiles? The US has some pretty big non-nuclear bombs, just use a few to literally wipe out NK's missile program.

I'm pretty sure we know where most of his fabrication facilities are located and we can even strike deep underground to hit his nuke bunkers.  The real problem, IMO is that no matter how fast and hard we strike, Seoul is going to get pounded for hours or probably days with a savage artillery bombardment.  If his generals are as crazy as he is, those artillery shells could have Sarin in them.  The loss of life could be horrific, depending on wind and weather during the assault.  Also, if KJ Fatboy is as paranoid as has been reported, he might just decide to use nukes immediately so he won't lose them.  IF he attacks Japan or S.K. with a nuke, no matter the yield, we should reduce Pyongyang and all his major troop formations to radiated ashes.  We should make that plan clear to Xi and Putin in the run-up to this little party they seem to want us to attend.  It causes me to shudder to realize that our Joint Chiefs are actually making such plans in earnest.  I realize that we've always had these war plans but during the cold war I always thought of it as more of a hypothetical.  In this situation, we seem to really be marching toward a conflict where these weapons might actually HAVE to be used.  I get angry every time I think about this being a test by China's leader of our president.  If Trump opts for negotiations and eventually concedes ANYTHING, Russia and China will assess him as another coward like the last U.S. president.  All we'd do by appeasing today is have to fight a stronger enemy tomorrow.

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The world needs to stand and take this tyrant out of power. He is going to continue to rant and boast until he is armed with an intercontinental nuclear warhead. And with all the ranting, boasting and determination, once armed he becomes a real threat. He may have Moe's haircut from the 3 stooges, but this is no laughing matter.

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8 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

 

It wasn't long ago (this year) when they were saying he didn't have a ICBM yet. How did that work out?

 

I found that rather hillarious aswell...

Made me think of claims about "17 intelligence agencies agree about Russia!" :lol:

Sometimes we overestimate ourselves because we believe what we are told without seeing it with our own eyes...

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, and then said:

The leverage of having a credible threat of a nuclear strike on U.S. soil?  That leverage?  Because that is exactly what he means to have.  That is a crime family with an army and the dear leader, KJ Fatboy has proven he is completely unpredictable.  No thanks.  Our choice is grim but it only gets worse with time.  This whole episode is just a test of Trump's backbone.  China has to know how far he can be pushed.  I guarantee that if our diplomats talk Trump into any kind of concessions, we'll not only have the Fatboy coming back for more but China and Russia BOTH will start pushing us.  War on the peninsula is apt to be breathtaking in its savagery and loss of life but our only other choice seems to be to kneel before that short, fat manure pile.  I wonder how Xi would react to a phone call that told him we were in negotiations with Taiwan to help them into the nuclear club...  THIS is not the hill Xi wants to see his country die on.

KJU is a living breathing manifeststion of the Monsu Hill Monument. All his actions are designed to maintain this image and resist internal pressure. KJU knows his power ends if he starts a war.

If USA break the NPT the UNSC dissolves and the USA loses it's power of veto.

If Trump opens trade with NK he's directly challenging China. What's cowardly in that?

USA is still the greatest economy. The talk of protectionism is throwing away your greatest unchecked instrument. 

I mean can you listen to Australia's talk of trade sanctions against China and not need to suck a lemon?

Edited by Golden Duck
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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

What's cowardly in that?

It's been tried and it has failed, repeatedly.  That regime simply cannot be trusted.  If we make yet more concessions then he has achieved his goal at no cost and he gets the bonus of looking strong to his people.  I realize that there is an element in this country that wishes for a different reality and seem willing to keep surrendering to this fat punk just to buy a little more time in peace but they are wrong.  I heard an Air Force general say something pretty shocking yesterday.  He said that NK has had the capability to hit us with a nuke for about 4 to 5 years.  It was that long ago when they achieved the ability to put a satellite in orbit.  It passes over the U.S. twice a day.  All he'd have to do is detonate it as it passes over and America would basically cease to exist as a modern power.  Sure, once we were sure it was Un that did it we would turn his country and him into a pyre that left nothing recognizable but by that time it would be too late.  There are estimates of up to a 90% mortality rate in the U.S. if an EMP does the damage that has been predicted.  Hopefully, if this thing turns hot, we have the capability to destroy his satellites - just in case.

ETA - http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/24/opinion/essay-clinton-s-concessions.html

Edited by and then
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42 minutes ago, and then said:

It's been tried and it has failed, repeatedly.  That regime simply cannot be trusted.  If we make yet more concessions then he has achieved his goal at no cost and he gets the bonus of looking strong to his people.  I realize that there is an element in this country that wishes for a different reality and seem willing to keep surrendering to this fat punk just to buy a little more time in peace but they are wrong.  I heard an Air Force general say something pretty shocking yesterday.  He said that NK has had the capability to hit us with a nuke for about 4 to 5 years.  It was that long ago when they achieved the ability to put a satellite in orbit.  It passes over the U.S. twice a day.  All he'd have to do is detonate it as it passes over and America would basically cease to exist as a modern power.  Sure, once we were sure it was Un that did it we would turn his country and him into a pyre that left nothing recognizable but by that time it would be too late.  There are estimates of up to a 90% mortality rate in the U.S. if an EMP does the damage that has been predicted.  Hopefully, if this thing turns hot, we have the capability to destroy his satellites - just in case.

ETA - http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/24/opinion/essay-clinton-s-concessions.html

So for the last four years NK haven't done anything as audacious Pueblo or Deep Sea 129 incidents.  And your now saying they've developed the ability to destroy USA under the burden of US trade sanctions.  It's clear allowing China to be the major trading partner with NK is not working either.

I don't really expect the USA to open trade with NK. That would be stepping on China's turf. Staying out of China dominated market place is the USA concession.

Quote

North Korea: Kim Jong-un has ties with 164 countries

,,,

China says it enforces U.N. sanctions and since February it has banned imports of North Korean coal—one of Pyongyang’s main sources of hard currency.

However, U.N. sanctions still allow trade that isn’t deemed to benefit North Korea’s nuclear and missile programs, and China’s customs figures show that its exports to North Korea have increased this year. Crucially, China continues to be North Korea’s biggest source of crude oil, according to diplomats and experts on the region.

Much of North Korea’s trade takes place over the 880-mile land border with China, which is porous and sparsely guarded. Small Chinese and North Korean companies quietly ferry coal, iron ore and other resources over the border, far from checkpoints.

U.N. sanctions introduced in March 2016 banned exports of North Korean iron ore unless they were exclusively for “livelihood purposes”—a loophole China continues to exploit.

...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-global-web-that-keeps-north-korea-running-1499358538?tesla=y&mod=e2tw

Seems the economic potency has already been conceded to China and noone has the appetite to wrest it back.

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The wargasmic spasms continues ...

~

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14 hours ago, Lilly said:

I wonder what would happen if the US simply took out all of Lil' Kim's missiles? The US has some pretty big non-nuclear bombs, just use a few to literally wipe out NK's missile program.

It would lead to hundreds of thousands if not millions of South Korean citizens dying.

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10 hours ago, South Alabam said:

The world needs to stand and take this tyrant out of power. He is going to continue to rant and boast until he is armed with an intercontinental nuclear warhead. And with all the ranting, boasting and determination, once armed he becomes a real threat. 

What's the point in decapitating the regime?

There's plenty more where he came from.

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3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

It would lead to hundreds of thousands if not millions of South Korean citizens dying.

If we disabled the majority of his missiles how would there be that large a death toll right off the bat? Lil' Kim would be left with only conventional weapons, and keep in mind the US still has ICBMs that can reach 'Dear Leaders' country. If Lil' Kim moves on SK we flatten the few NK cities that contain his technology base. Most of North Korea is very backward and if we destroy the tech centers I suspect Lil' Kim's command and control won't be all that effective. Basically, this is going to result in people dying...and the onus falls on Lil' Kim not anyone else. Because if we don't capitulate to this dictator (someone who actually is a Hitler wannabe) then the 100s of thousands dead are very likely to be citizens of California and/or Alaska.

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