Pompeii House of the Ephebe

[Hanslune]

41 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

There are some written accounts where pineapple was used in Europe to refer to pinecones prior to contact with the Americas. I believe Colavito cites a specific instance or two in his blog entry about this mosaic.

Yep, I stand corrected on that.

Here is a link to Jason's article on this matter too

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/the-pineapple-of-pompeii

 

[Jarocal]

1 hour ago, Hanslune said:

Yep, I stand corrected on that.

Here is a link to Jason's article on this matter too

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/the-pineapple-of-pompeii

 

I honestly figured the Romans would have preferred steamed thornapple greens. The settlers at Jamestown seemed to enjoy them (once)according to an old journal...

[rashore]

On 7/9/2017 at 3:48 PM, RabidMongoose said:

There is a very famous Roman mosaic floor at the house of the Ephebe show below:

Award yourself 100 points if you can you guess what's wrong with it?

  Reveal hidden contents

Thats right it contains a pineapple which is native to South America not a European fruit. Something totally impossible if we think that these didnt make it to Europe until after the colonisation of the Americas.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/the-pineapple-of-pompeii

 

I keep coming back and looking at this... And I'm kind of thinking maybe we are focusing so much on the pineapple greenery we are not looking at the greenery, lol.

Some random stringing together... If the greenery behind the pineapple is just that.. What if the greens on the table represent things not on the table? On the left is what to me is pretty clearly olive branches. I'm not sure of what grasses were up in Pompeii, but Farro is an ancient grain in the area- perhaps they are representing farro sheaves? The greenery that is dropping off from behind the bowl and the sparrow? is alighting upon looks like that pine tree sprig shape.

 

[back to earth]

4 hours ago, Jarocal said:

I honestly figured the Romans would have preferred steamed thornapple greens. The settlers at Jamestown seemed to enjoy them (once)according to an old journal...

Hmmmmm ... 

my dear old traditional mum used to serve Christmas pud on a plate with holly leaves on it ..... not that we would ever eat them .

 

Not that we would eat the leaves or the berries  nor was holly growing  anywhere near us ... it was plastic holly pud deco      

so maybe pinecones could be used as deco on  a table plate  ? 

 

I remember being flummoxed, then amused, the first time I went to  a house and saw  they had a bowl of plastic fruit on the table . 

 

.... I still am  !  

[Jarocal]

1 hour ago, back to earth said:

 

I remember being flummoxed, then amused, the first time I went to  a house and saw  they had a bowl of plastic fruit on the table . 

 

.... I still am  !  

Plastic fruit or flowers for decoration in a house perplexes me. If you don't have the couple minutes a day to water a plant, you don't have enough time to enjoy viewing the plastic decoration so why bother doing it. Real fruit in a bowl not only can be decorative, it makes a great snack for kids or Jarocal to quickly grab on the go.

[kmt_sesh]

11 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Ah well we must disagree I'm an old fan of pineapple, Canadian ham, mushrooms and garlic on pizza

All of those are excellent on pizzas. But not pineapple. Eww! Pineapple on a pizza is a culinary sin of robust proportions. Just ask Rupert.

[kmt_sesh]

I'll often get a fruit cup for lunch at the museum. It's actually a fairly large serving, and I enjoy few things more than fresh, juicy fruit. I'll grab two forks so I can eat the grapes, melons, cantaloupe, and other goodies. I'll hand the extra fork to my friend so she can eat those nasty pineapple slices for me.

[Jarocal]

10 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

I'll often get a fruit cup for lunch at the museum. It's actually a fairly large serving, and I enjoy few things more than fresh, juicy fruit. I'll grab two forks so I can eat the grapes, melons, cantaloupe, and other goodies. I'll hand the extra fork to my friend so she can eat those nasty pineapple slices for me.

The pineapple tastes better in the fruit cup if you drain the syrup, from the fruit, add enough moonshine to cover the fruit in the container, put the lid back on, then refrigerate it for a couple days. Totally changes the flavor profile...

Edit to add- sooo tempting to bold certain parts of your post. You really should be careful putting "grab, melons, and other goodies" in the same sentence.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Jarocal
Ramps have been debunked

[kmt_sesh]

2 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

The pineapple tastes better in the fruit cup if you drain the syrup, from the fruit, add enough moonshine to cover the fruit in the container, put the lid back on, then refrigerate it for a couple days. Totally changes the flavor profile...

Well, sure. That's doing everything imaginable to wipe out the sour taste of the dreaded pineapple. Even I might be willing to try that.

Regarding the plastic fruit, it's not just that they won't spoil or wilt. This is a ploy by the Cabal to trick the lowly minions into eating plastic. We've laced the plastic with drugs to make the minions more pliant and agreeable.

[Jarocal]

3 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Well, sure. That's doing everything imaginable to wipe out the sour taste of the dreaded pineapple. Even I might be willing to try that.

Regarding the plastic fruit, it's not just that they won't spoil or wilt. This is a ploy by the Cabal to trick the lowly minions into eating plastic. We've laced the plastic with drugs to make the minions more pliant and agreeable.

Well since those pesky consumer advocacy groups got governments to ban lead in paints you have had to find something else.

[MDagger]

19 hours ago, rashore said:

I keep coming back and looking at this... And I'm kind of thinking maybe we are focusing so much on the pineapple greenery we are not looking at the greenery, lol.

Some random stringing together... If the greenery behind the pineapple is just that.. What if the greens on the table represent things not on the table? On the left is what to me is pretty clearly olive branches. I'm not sure of what grasses were up in Pompeii, but Farro is an ancient grain in the area- perhaps they are representing farro sheaves? The greenery that is dropping off from behind the bowl and the sparrow? is alighting upon looks like that pine tree sprig shape.

 

Interesting.  If one would consider the "pineapple tuft" a branch/leaf representation it would, along with the branch the sparrow is on, balance the two olive branches on the left side of the bowl.  The branch the bird is on is a little lower due to its weight

Are there other representations of fruit / food found at Pompeii or or locations that have similar pineapple-looking items?

MDagger

[back to earth]

22 hours ago, Jarocal said:

Plastic fruit or flowers for decoration in a house perplexes me. If you don't have the couple minutes a day to water a plant, you don't have enough time to enjoy viewing the plastic decoration so why bother doing it. Real fruit in a bowl not only can be decorative, it makes a great snack for kids or Jarocal to quickly grab on the go.

One of those moments that 'make it all worthwhile'  ;

I am listening to the kids playing (unknown to them )  on their  200 acres of farm/ forest , bushland, riverfront , gardens, orchids ( with tree houses, rafts , forts, etc .  ; 

" I'm hungry ... let's go to your place for lunch . "  

" I cant be bothered, let's just pick fruit of the trees. "

-  kids choosing, voluntarily to have an organic fruit lunch     

 

However, I do see the issue of having a fruit tree growing out of the dining room table . 

Oh no !   I just remembered .......    plastic bonsai trees !   arrrgh !  

 

... and when I saw the first plastic Christmas tree      ... whaaaaat  !   ... then they brought out silver ones     ....  as a kid, I think that was my first      W ... T ... F   ...    !  ?    

 

[back to earth]

20 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

I'll often get a fruit cup for lunch at the museum. It's actually a fairly large serving, and I enjoy few things more than fresh, juicy fruit. I'll grab two forks so I can eat the grapes, melons, cantaloupe, and other goodies. I'll hand the extra fork to my friend so she can eat those nasty pineapple slices for me.

Wow !   You really do have a problem with them ,  dont you . 

 

Would you like to come inside, lie down on the couch and talk about it  ? 

 

Spoiler

 

[Gingitsune]

On 7/12/2017 at 0:27 PM, Jarocal said:

There are some written accounts where pineapple was used in Europe to refer to pinecones prior to contact with the Americas. I believe Colavito cites a specific instance or two in his blog entry about this mosaic.

It's still used in French as pomme de pin. The pineapple is called ananas, same in German, Spanish, Italian, etc. It seems king Charles II of England named the fruit pineapple because it looked like a pine cone, a.k.a. pineapple.

[Khaemwaset]

Tepache is a Mexican drink made from the fermented skins of the pineapple!  Try it with your dates, grapes, and pomegranites...and whatever that other fruit is.  Some persons may prefer to discard the pineapple flesh because they hate it so much.

[Khaemwaset]

I guess I’m a little confused about the identification of this mosaic floor.  Jason Colavito et al refer to murals in Pompeii.  So, this OP mosaic floor is actually found in Rome in the Palazzo Massimo alla Terme in a gallery dedicated to ancient Roman frescos and mosaics.  It’s dated to the 1st century CE, but I can find no reference to it coming from the House of the Ephebe in Pompeii; however that doesn’t lessen its curiousness.  Perhaps someone with better resources than I have can discover its place of origin.  Here's a view of the floor with the OP image in context:

What does originate from the said Pompeiian house and can still be found there, inside the Lararium on the right as one enters the villa, is the fresco of an offering of what appears to be a pineapple as a sacrifice.  There seems to be only a few images available of this (sorry about the quality):

Now, is it or is it not a pineapple?  And then, does the mosaic floor show a pineapple?

http://www.romeanditaly.com/a-mystery-in-an-ancient-mosaic/

http://www.pompeisepolta.com/english/america.htm

Edited July 25, 2017 by Khaemwaset

[kmt_sesh]

7 hours ago, Khaemwaset said:

Tepache is a Mexican drink made from the fermented skins of the pineapple!  Try it with your dates, grapes, and pomegranites...and whatever that other fruit is.  Some persons may prefer to discard the pineapple flesh because they hate it so much.

Yes, indeed. The dates, grapes, and pomegranates sound delicious.

Pineapple would ruin it. Eww.