U.S. Republicans left scrambling after health

[ExpandMyMind]

21 hours ago, Gromdor said:

The gals on my facebook page are complaining that McCain is getting all the credit for sinking the healthcare bill, but the two Republican female senators that voted against it aren't even mentioned.

Well, yeah. That's because McCain blind sided them. He said he was in support of it which meant that they would have the votes, so the House put it forward to the Senate because they thought it would pass. But because they were then screwed by McCain they now have to wait until the next fiscal year before bringing it up for debate again, due to the votes now needed (59 instead of 51 is it?). You only have one chance to get it through with the lesser votes per bill per fiscal year. 

If they had known what McCain would do then the House would never have passed it and would have been forced to continue to work on the bill. In retrospect, it looks like McCain engineered the whole situation as a way to kill the entire bill. Genius really and a massive F-U to his entire party, but mainly the middle finger to Trump, it seems. Trump probably shouldn't have made that comment about him being a PoW.

Edited July 30, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[Gromdor]

28 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Well, yeah. That's because McCain blind sided them. He said he was in support of it which meant that they would have the votes, so the House put it forward to the Senate because they thought it would pass. But because they were then screwed by McCain they now have to wait until the next fiscal year before bringing it up for debate again, due to the votes now needed (59 instead of 51 is it?). You only have one chance to get it through with the lesser votes per bill per fiscal year. 

If they had known what McCain would do then the House would never have passed it and would have been forced to continue to work on the bill. In retrospect, it looks like McCain engineered the whole situation as a way to kill the entire bill. Genius really and a massive F-U to his entire party, but mainly the middle finger to Trump, it seems. Trump probably shouldn't have made that comment about him being a PoW.

Yeah, I guess you are right.  They used a procedure to allow the 51 votes by tying it to finances, but it has debate and other limitations.  

I am also left to wonder if his sudden diagnosis of brain cancer hasn't changed his view on healthcare as well.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Gromdor

[ExpandMyMind]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Yeah, I guess you are right.  They used a procedure to allow the 51 votes by tying it to finances, but it has debate and other limitations.  

I am also left to wonder if his sudden diagnoses of brain cancer hasn't changed his view on healthcare as well.

Well he probably has less than a year to live, so I'm guessing it's less about healthcare and more about ****ing over Trump as much as he can before he dies.

[Gromdor]

11 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Well he probably has less than a year to live, so I'm guessing it's less about healthcare and more about ****ing over Trump as much as he can before he dies.

I was thinking he changed his mind for more noble reasons.  He never came across to me as completely soulless like many other politicians.

It would truly be a shame if his motivation was something as petty as revenge for a slight.

[ExpandMyMind]

2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I was thinking he changed his mind for more noble reasons.  He never came across to me as completely soulless like many other politicians.

It would truly be a shame if his motivation was something as petty as revenge for a slight.

Maybe I'm wrong and he did. It'd be nicer to think that for sure. But we all know just how much he hates Trump, and not just for that PoW comment.

[Paranormal Panther]

20 hours ago, Agent0range said:

EXACTLY.  What it came down to, literally, was "we'll vote for this as long as the house promises they won't pass it".  Seven years of lip service.

They talk a good game, but they don't play a good game. In fact, it seems like one big shell game at the voters' expense.

[Paranormal Panther]

16 hours ago, Gromdor said:

The parties don't actually like solving the issues we face because their mere existence gives them voters.  Abortion, Obamacare, etc.  all put people on the two teams. 

Being against Obamacare got the Republicans the vote, but they never expected to sweep the house, senate, and presidency.  Suddenly, they were forced to solve a problem that they were touting but never expected to have to resolve.  They were expecting it to be tied up in congress, but with enough of the other team on the field to be able to effectively blame.

I keep picturing McConnell in my mind. It seemed like he and Boehner were two impediments to their own party. It might be time for Mitch to join John at a golf course where they can smoke cigars paid for by their retirement pensions. We need some new blood to make things flow through those clogged veins in Congress.

[Paranormal Panther]

16 hours ago, and then said:

They've been exposed now.  The truth is that even if Trump got his desire and the Senate changed the rules on passing legislation to require only 51 votes, they STILL couldn't pass this repeal because once a welfare benefit is passed they NEVER get repealed.  I believe that every member of Congress understands that our economic situation is untenable and that a collapse is just a matter of time.  That said, why lose their seat when it can't change anything?  

They likely refuse to remove and replace Obamacare, so voters should remove and replace them. There is no good excuse, as well as no good explanation, for their lack of progress. The Republicans are in an ideal situation to change the system, but it's as if the other party is in their situation. Your theory may be right because logic isn't applicable. You mentioned, in past posts, that it might be time to take drastic action in the form of things like instituting new term limits and voting out old politicians. This probably is the one solution that will peacefully change things. Many of the current crop of professional politicians simply won't do their jobs, and it's abundantly clear that they won't gain a new work ethic. We have to elect people who are eager to help us, and that involves voting out all politicians who won't honor their pledges to voters.

[SHaYap]

Its being stashed away as more Political Capital to rouse up the People comes the next dog and pony show ...

~

[Uncle Sam]

Trump just threaten to put all senators on the same health care as the citizens if they do not fix the healthcare bill. Ironically many of the liberals are cheering this on except for the hardcore liberals who hate his guts no matter what he does, I always wondered why the senators have a completely different healthcare system than we do.

Trump threatens to take away congress health care if they do not fix the health care bill.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[SHaYap]

No more nurses in tight little short outfits then ...

~

[ExpandMyMind]

7 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

Trump just threaten to put all senators on the same health care as the citizens if they do not fix the healthcare bill. Ironically many of the liberals are cheering this on except for the hardcore liberals who hate his guts no matter what he does, I always wondered why the senators have a completely different healthcare system than we do.

Trump threatens to take away congress health care if they do not fix the health care bill.

This man is an idiot. One, I don't even think he could do that. And two, if he did, he'd lose the support of his entire government. We'd see how easily he gets impeached if he took away the healthcare of politicians and, I assume, their families who would be on their plan.

[Gromdor]

One would think that millionaire congressmen would have enough money to get their own health care if Trump were to pull their freebee.

[CrimsonKing]

Whewwwwww...

Johnny burns his party again!

Well atleast after 8 years of screaming,complaining,and whipping the fan base into a frenzy over evil Obama and his healthcare plan 'ol johnny boy can say thank you to his base for keeping him in his cushy job.

Here is his middle finger salute as a thank you in what is surely his last term anyway...

[Agent0range]

6 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

Whewwwwww...

Johnny burns his party again!

Well atleast after 8 years of screaming,complaining,and whipping the fan base into a frenzy over evil Obama and his healthcare plan 'ol johnny boy can say thank you to his base for keeping him in his cushy job.

Here is his middle finger salute as a thank you in what is surely his last term anyway...

You know..I said to my wife tonight..."I can't believe only one party cares if other people lose healthcare."  That is true to all but three Republicans.  Is that OK?  In my situation...I have amazing healthcare, that is safe no matter what the vote is.  But how can people be OK with people losing healthcare?  Why does only one party care if people lose healthcare?  Why is a child born with a birth defect doomed to a life of paying far more for a preexisting condition by the same party that won't let their parents have an abortion when a doctor tells them the fetus has defects?  So, should you think McCain is a scumbag for voting against a BS bill, or do you think he is actually voting for what is best for Americans?  My guess is that you don't know what the hell you are talking about anyway.

[Tatetopa]

On 7/18/2017 at 8:44 AM, RavenHawk said:

What scrambling?  They are simply useless.  This vote isn't even to vote it through.  It is just the vote to bring it to the floor for discussion.  Isn't this what you need to happen?  What are they afraid of?  The Progs filibustering?  Let them.  Put it back in their court so when Obamacare does collapse, the GOP can keep their hands clean.

Too late for that.  They already have their fingers in the pie. If it collapses, they will be blamed for letting it fail.

[CrimsonKing]

47 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

You know..I said to my wife tonight..."I can't believe only one party cares if other people lose healthcare."  That is true to all but three Republicans.  Is that OK?  In my situation...I have amazing healthcare, that is safe no matter what the vote is.  But how can people be OK with people losing healthcare?  Why does only one party care if people lose healthcare?  Why is a child born with a birth defect doomed to a life of paying far more for a preexisting condition by the same party that won't let their parents have an abortion when a doctor tells them the fetus has defects?  So, should you think McCain is a scumbag for voting against a BS bill, or do you think he is actually voting for what is best for Americans?  My guess is that you don't know what the hell you are talking about anyway.

I care about when people run for office and tell their voters one specific thing over and over and over again,get their voting base whipped up into a furry against the opposition,too stick by what they told their voting base was unAmerican and unconstitutional...I'm sick and tired of the same 'ol liars telling the same 'ol lies and walking away scot free!

I don't really care what your "guess" is,you are just some mouthy moron spouting out guesses from behind your screen about someone you know nothing about... 

Keep guessing Einstein! 

Eta

Me and you have had this discussion,i am not against a working model for affordable healthcare...i am against someone sowing discord and doing their best to impede something,yet in turn when they get their precious majority they needed across the board they walk away from their promise!

THAT is my problem with McCain!

Edited September 23, 2017 by CrimsonKing

[Kurzweil]

The people of Arizona should be ashamed of continually voting this lunatic into office. To top it off he has a brain debilitating disease and he's making decisions for the people.  Wtf? Need term limits.

[odas]

On 7/30/2017 at 10:10 AM, Gromdor said:

I was thinking he changed his mind for more noble reasons.  He never came across to me as completely soulless like many other politicians.

It would truly be a shame if his motivation was something as petty as revenge for a slight.

I don't think either his vote was a revange vote. I always had great respect for Him. A true patriot.

[AnchorSteam]

On 9/26/2017 at 5:48 AM, Kurzweil said:

The people of Arizona should be ashamed of continually voting this lunatic into office. To top it off he has a brain debilitating disease and he's making decisions for the people.  Wtf? Need term limits.

Everyone has been saying that for decades, and it keeps not happening.

 

At this point, I would settle for a certificate of Mental Health ... maybe we could start with Federal Judges. 

[Agent0range]

Serious question.  What is the platform the Republicans run on in the midterms?  It certainly can't be repealing Obamacare.  

[Gromdor]

2 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Serious question.  What is the platform the Republicans run on in the midterms?  It certainly can't be repealing Obamacare.  

NFL kneeling reform!

[paperdyer]

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 8:54 AM, Wickian said:

I'm still not sure what they were trying to accomplish. 

They didn't have enough votes for any substantial changes, and any minor changes they could make would just taint them with the mess that is the ACA.  I would have just been satisfied with them just removing the mandate thus forcing those who are trying to stop them to help in revamping the whole thing or be blamed for a collapse of the medical insurance system.

If find it somewhat amusing that a Party stating Obamacare was a done deal if they were elected, can't agree to how to do it.  You'd think there would have been some sort of unified plan before they took over. I'd wager every little insurance lobbyist is stirring the pot to try to get even a better way to charge exorbitant premiums.

[AnchorSteam]

7 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Serious question.  What is the platform the Republicans run on in the midterms?  It certainly can't be repealing Obamacare.  

My advice to Republicans; RENO -  Re-Elect NObody.

[Peter B]

On 7/22/2017 at 2:23 AM, aztek said:

it is not even good in a short term, take imperial russia, and 1917 revolution, it was exactly that redistribution, but all the money ended up in hands of communist party , not people, it was never intended to be split between people. 

also redistribution fails in other aspect, i guarantee if you take money from a rich guy and split between 100 poor guys, in no time they will spend their share, and be broke again, rich guy otoh will make more. numerous horror stories from lotto winners support my pov.

people are not poor because they have no way of getting money, it's because they have no skills\desire to make it.  i've seen people starting from 0, and  become very wealthy , i also see opposite. see people blow winning, insurance settlements and still stay broke,

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree with your argument that 100 poor guys will in no time "spend their share and be broke again". Sure you can point to plenty of stories of lottery winners ending up broke. But that's hardly a universal story, is it? I'd suggest the evidence is more nuanced: some people like that will blow the money and end up where they started; and others will grab the opportunity given to them and make a success of life.

In fact you even undermine your own argument when you give your examples of "people starting from 0" - if people can start from 0 and make a success of things, how many more people might succeed if they're given a small amount of seed money?

And I'd also like to challenge your comment about people being poor because they have no skills or desires to make it. Sorry, but the USA is notable for having less social mobility than most other developed nations. In other words, the greatest predictor for being poor in the USA is having poor parents. This suggests that poor people are failing to become rich not because of any inherent personal failing but because the opportunities to become rich are proportionately much less available to poor people than they are to people with more access to money.

But to turn back to health care, can I just ask what's more important to Americans (you or anyone else): remaining faithful to your ideology or finding an affordable healthcare system? As others have pointed out, the healthcare systems in other developed countries (like the UK or Australia) are cheaper per person than the American healthcare system and deliver better outcomes. Sure, they're what you'd call socialist healthcare systems, but I then have to ask whether you think countries like the UK or Australia are socialist countries like those socialist "paradises" of Cold War days such as East Germany or the USSR?