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Gingitsune

Trump and the Russians

18 posts in this topic

I'm sharing two articles I read this week that make sense of the l'affaire russe. Feel free to add more if you find something note worthy.

The first article is title "Seven Theories of the Case: What Do We Really Know about L’Affaire Russe and What Could it All Mean?" and propose a vast array of possible implication from Trump and his family. The theories go from the unlucky coincidences to the full fledged Manchurian candidate. I'll let you read the details, but here's the subtitles:

Theory of the Case #1: It’s All a Giant Set of Coincidences and Disconnected Events
Theory of the Case #2: Trump Attracted Russophiles
Theory of the Case #3: The Russian Operation Wasn’t Really About Trump at All
Theory of the Case #4: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—But Trump Didn’t Know
Theory of the Case #5: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—And Trump Knew or Should Have Known
Theory of the Case #6: Kompromat
Theory of the Case #7: The President of the United States is a Russian Agent

The author says #1 and #7 are unlikely and more than one could turn out to be true. Meaning Trump could attract russophiles while Russian operation wasn't about Trumps at all, plus a few coincidences.

A second article is about how Trump luxury apartments were used to launder Russian mafia's dirty money. It doesn't mean or imply 

https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

Quote

In 1984, a Russian émigré named David Bogatin went shopping for apartments in New York City. The 38-year-old had arrived in America seven years before, with just $3 in his pocket. But for a former pilot in the Soviet Army—his specialty had been shooting down Americans over North Vietnam—he had clearly done quite well for himself. Bogatin wasn’t hunting for a place in Brighton Beach, the Brooklyn enclave known as “Little Odessa” for its large population of immigrants from the Soviet Union. Instead, he was fixated on the glitziest apartment building on Fifth Avenue, a gaudy, 58-story edifice with gold-plated fixtures and a pink-marble atrium: Trump Tower.

A monument to celebrity and conspicuous consumption, the tower was home to the likes of Johnny Carson, Steven Spielberg, and Sophia Loren. Its brash, 38-year-old developer was something of a tabloid celebrity himself. Donald Trump was just coming into his own as a serious player in Manhattan real estate, and Trump Tower was the crown jewel of his growing empire. From the day it opened, the building was a hit—all but a few dozen of its 263 units had sold in the first few months. But Bogatin wasn’t deterred by the limited availability or the sky-high prices. The Russian plunked down $6 million to buy not one or two, but five luxury condos. The big check apparently caught the attention of the owner. According to Wayne Barrett, whoinvestigated the deal for the Village Voice, Trump personally attended the closing, along with Bogatin.

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Turn 15 or 20 political hack lawyers with unlimited resources and time loose on ANYONE and they will find a crime.  What is happening to this president is an outrage and if he is impeached (BIG IF) it better damn well be because of solid evidence of actively working with foreign agents to impact the election.  I'm not talking about the normal run of the mill attempts at disruption that EVERY NATION dabbles in.  I'm talking about PROOF - memos, recordings or other tangible documents that prove TRUMP did what this investigation was begun to investigate.  At best, I believe this will devolve into an attempt to destroy his company and his family when they see that they cannot prove their accusations against him.  All of those who are so eager to remove this man from office without solid proof, NOT INNUENDO, are hypocrites because if the shoe were on HRC's foot, NONE of this would be happening.  The Progressives are "sowing the wind".

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10 hours ago, and then said:

Turn 15 or 20 political hack lawyers with unlimited resources and time loose on ANYONE and they will find a crime.  

This is really the problem in general...anyone can be character assassinated given the motive, resources and time. Both the Ds and the Rs need to knock this off. Here's a novel idea, how about putting all that effort into doing something positive for the American people? People are afraid for their employment and health needs. People see world wide terrorism and the mess in Iraq/Syria, the lunatic in North Korea, the Iranians playing us like fools. People feel their government isn't even remotely concerned with their needs. People are afraid for the future...and this isn't good.

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The point of this thread was to see what is behind the collusion accusation. It doesn't have to be all true, that's why I put the first article which water down the outrage. It could all be that Trump is a russophile which attract other russophile, while the Russian mafia was buying high priced condo to launder money. The two being unrelated.

It is why I put this topic in the conspiracy section, it's just wild speculation for the moment. But I wanted to understand where these claims where coming from.

 

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I think it is a criminal conspiracy. Putin is not only a dictator, we know that he has been involved in lots of illegal activity.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/russian-organized-crime.htm

I think Trump is similar in many ways, and so they have come to an arrangement how to best fleece the people of both nations.

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940. The FBI interfere US president election (12/29/2016) 


The FBI played an active role to interfere the US 2016 president election. It hit Democrate's nominee Hillary Clinton by email gate to help its candidate Donald Trump. The evident scene was in July 5 during Chilcot report. "FBI Director Comey potentially gave Clinton’s political rivals some ammunition, conceding there was "evidence of mishandling” classified information and that an FBI employee who did the same “would face consequences for this.”
 The FBI didn't indict Clinton because they have no evidence that Clinton intended to do wrong with her email setup."(washingtonpost.com) In fact, this is common for others. Powell had done samething. Why they beat the drum this time on Clinton? Because this time the FBI need a candidate of their own to handle a criminal case. So they determined to help Trump to win the election. This was also the time the Feds made a secret deal with Russian to hack Clinton's computer. 

So then Trump started to call for Russian's help. Why not China? Because he knew they had a deal with Russia already. 

Donald J. Trump said on Wednesday that he hoped Russian intelligence services had successfully hacked Hillary Clinton’s email, and encouraged them to publish whatever they may have stolen, essentially urging a foreign adversary to conduct cyberespionage against a former secretary of state.

 —JULY 27, 2016

https://myaccount.nytimes.com/mobile/login/smart/index.html?EXIT_URI=http%3A%2F%2Fmobile.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F07%2F28%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fdonald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html
 

What Russian had hacked? Maybe there was something important. Because in President Debate, Trump intimidated his rival hillary that he'd have special prosecutor and "you'd be in jail". 

On 10/28, the FBI director Comey reopened Clintion email investigation, then dramatically dropped the investigation on 11/6. A powerful department of the nation so openly, actively interfere in president election is unprecedented. 
 

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A russophile :rolleyes:, that's a new word lol

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2 hours ago, katsung47 said:

The FBI didn't indict Clinton because they have no evidence that Clinton intended to do wrong with her email setup."(washingtonpost.com) In fact, this is common for others. Powell had done samething.

The statute she clearly broke says NOTHING about the "intent" of the carelessness.  She was obviously guilty and given a pass by Comey and his bosses.  If not, then why did Comey have a draft letter clearing her of charges MONTHS before all the witnesses were interviewed?  And no, NOONE else had ever set up their own SERVER (not private email) as head of State Dept.  You should really get your facts straight, you're embarrassing yourself at this late date.

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On 7/20/2017 at 7:29 PM, and then said:

At best, I believe this will devolve into an attempt to destroy his company and his family when they see that they cannot prove their accusations against him.

I think thats kind of a given at this point. Well not that it will "devolve" into an orchestrated effort to do so , just that now that investigators are looking they're bound to uncover all sorts of things.

A happy consequence for sure but a natural one all the same. 

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9 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

A russophile :rolleyes:, that's a new word lol

From Merriam Webster:

 

Quote

 

Russophil

noun  Rus·so·phil \ˈrəsəˌfil\
variants: or 

Russophile  \-fīl\

Definition of Russophil

plural  -s
  1. :  one who admires or supports Russia or Russian policy

 

  1. Although I do hear these words like anglophile, francophile, etc. more often in French than English, they are used in both language. -Phile don't have the same meaning as in pedophile, don't get ideas. :P
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941. Payment to Russia for hacking in US election (1/4/2017)

Of course, Russia won't do it for free. There must be a secret deal between the intelligence of the two countries. We outsiders can only see it from some facts.

The secret deal: Hacked email were handed to Wikileaks to issue to hit Hillary Clinton.

The payment of secret deal: 

1. Aleppo falls (or "liberated" from Russia side) on 12/15. Resistance and civil withdraw from East Aleppo by bus. Five years fight ends. A big victory for Russia and its allies.

2. Economic interest.

Japan pledges 300 bil. yen economic package at Abe-Putin summit

December 17, 2016

The total value of Japan's contribution in investment and loans, including through agreements between private sector firms, is around 300 billion yen ($2.54 billion), Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Kotaro Nogami said after the leaders' summit.

http://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20161217/p2g/00m/0bu/023000c#csidx7f0739f16cc5d7e8efc439f0b9b08b7
Copyright

Putin dismissed the notion that he was only interested in getting economic benefits from Japan.

"If anyone thinks we’re interested only in developing economic links and a peace deal is of secondary importance, that’s not the case," he told the same news conference. That's all for the controversial islands. He went Japan just for those business deals.


You may say that's something between Russia and Japan. The Truth is Japan is the pocket slave of the US. If you still remember Trump claims credit for $50 billion investment by Japanese firm and 7 billion from a Taiwan firm. They were puppet nations that have to pay their defense share that Trump demands. Include that payment to Russia for the US sake. 

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If Trump and Putin weren’t both so appalling, this sort of rumour would not move so well.

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The question is why do they think Putin iand Trump are friends after the incident(s) in Syria? Could it be possible that the Democrats hired US based Russian hackers? 

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942. How the FBI helps Donald Trump (1/11/2017)


Trump is the candidate of the FBI. He from the beginning knew the secret deal of email hacking between the FBI and Russian secret police. 
 

Though Trump said hacking had ‘no effect on the outcome of the election’. He can not explain why he 
Called on Russia to Find Hillary Clinton’s Missing Emails. 

By ASHLEY PARKER and DAVID E. SANGER      JULY 27, 2016


“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference here in an apparent reference 


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html?_r=0

The unusual friendship manifested in his tweet that Putin has been praised for many times as being smart and being admired and respected.

The fact that Russian were paid with war interest and economic interest after Trump being elected US president. (see #941)

The fact that Putin remains inaction after President Obama retaliating Russia's hacking with new sanction and diplomats' expelling. (Putin says he is waiting for Trump's administration.)

All these proved there was a secret deal that Russian hacked US in election to the order of Trump and his master. 

Trump also was helped by the FBI in following fields.


1. S.S.G. rally. It's a nation wide informants net. A resource controlled by the Feds. (see #901)


2. Cyber space team, especially in face book. Combine with the fake news created by the disinformation office, they waged a wave in internet community to support Trump and tarnish Clinton. 


3. Media. See #924. "Harvard Study Confirms The Media Tore Down Clinton, Built Up Trump And Sanders
by Carter Maness".

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46 minutes ago, katsung47 said:


942. How the FBI helps Donald Trump (1/11/2017)


Trump is the candidate of the FBI. He from the beginning knew the secret deal of email hacking between the FBI and Russian secret police. 
 

Though Trump said hacking had ‘no effect on the outcome of the election’. He can not explain why he 
Called on Russia to Find Hillary Clinton’s Missing Emails. 

 

 

Really?  This has been going on for a year and no proof has been offered.  There are multiple investigations going on at a cost of millions and so far, NOTHING.  I see that I can skip the prelude and just put you on ignore, prophylactically.  

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On 9/30/2017 at 11:06 AM, Mr.United_Nations said:

The question is why do they think Putin iand Trump are friends after the incident(s) in Syria? Could it be possible that the Democrats hired US based Russian hackers? 

Why wouldn't they be?  Can't two major elites have a friendly game of world chess and sacrifice a few pawns only to have cognac and vodka afterwards? 

The whole Game of Thrones conspiracy thing gets a little old after a while.  If there are motives, and there are, maybe it is what it looks like.  You can spin off in any direction and it does no good.  Maybe team Trump is responsible and planted all of the emails and drugged Hillary into believing she did it.   Maybe they hacked her server and Trump s really Xi Jinping in disguise.  Or maybe we should just stay in this reality.

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What we learned

Sens. Richard Burr and Mark Warner just gave an update on the ongoing probe into Russian meddling in the US election. Below are the key takeaways.

  • Russia tried to create chaos: Burr said the committee trusts the overall intelligence finding that Russia meddled in the 2016 election, and is still trying to "create chaos in our election process."
  • Collusion is still in question: Both senators said multiples times that collusion between Russia and the campaign is a "concern we continue to pursue."
  • Russia used social media: Burr said Russia used paid advertisements and created false accounts to "drive division." Russian-linked Facebook ads targeted at least 12 states.
  • "Hit a wall" on the dossier: The panel has tried to reach the British spy behind the dossieralleging ties between President Trump's campaign and Russia — but he won't meet with them.
  • Comey memo investigation: The committee has concluded its look into the James Comey memos, saying all questions around his firing should be directed to counsel.
  • Trump's "hoax" claims: Less than 2 weeks ago, President Trump said Russia was a hoax. The senators were clear that Russia did, in fact, meddle. 
 

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On 9/30/2017 at 11:06 AM, Mr.United_Nations said:

The question is why do they think Putin iand Trump are friends after the incident(s) in Syria? Could it be possible that the Democrats hired US based Russian hackers? 

Could it be possible that the Democrats hired US based Russian hackers? to help Trump win the election? No wonder Trump is called a "moron". So be his follower with no logic. 

 

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