seeder Posted July 23, 2017 #1 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Quote Choose your own gender WITHOUT seeing as doctor: Government to rip up rules on switching sex Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor's diagnosis under government plans People will be able to 'self-identify' as a member of the opposite sex Current rules mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex The need to be assessed and diagnosed by clinicians is regarded as intrusive Government also announced that it will make it easier for gay men to give blood Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4722056/Government-plans-allow-transgender-pick-gender.html#ixzz4neuS9aTf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 23, 2017 #2 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I was sure this was going to be about Doctor Who again. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilly Posted July 23, 2017 #3 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Can I choose my own age, race, ethnic origin as well? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #4 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Lilly said: Can I choose my own age, race, ethnic origin as well? Yes, you can. Rachel Dolezal established transracialism. And then there is this old British guy who lives like a little girl, with, like he puts it, very supportive adoptive parents. I guess that's transageism. Edit: But, oops, it's not what you "choose". You got to be born in the wrong body. Edited July 23, 2017 by FLOMBIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted July 23, 2017 Author #5 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, FLOMBIE said: Yes, you can. Rachel Dolezal established transracialism. She also bought legal action because she was 'white' and felt discriminated against Quote The NAACP official who today resigned in the face of evidence that she masqueraded as black once sued Howard University for denying her teaching posts and a scholarship because she was a white woman, The Smoking Gun has learned. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/bizarre/rachel-dolezal-discrimination-lawsuit-786451 and Quote Rachel Dolezal's definition of 'transracial' isn't just wrong, it's destructive After days of speculation, Rachel Dolezal appeared on the Today show and declared herself transracial – and blamed other people’s misunderstanding of the term on why she came to be identified as black. “I was actually identified when I was doing human rights work in north Idaho as first transracial”, she said – in a construction that conveniently negated her agency in that decision – and explained that she never corrected subsequent media reports that she was biracial or black. “I identify as black”, she said during the interview, though she admits to having identified as white at other points – including when she sued Howard University for racial discrimination because she was white. (She lost.) But transracial does not mean what some white Americans like Dolezal apparently wish it to mean. The term originates from adoptive and academic circles to describe the very lived experience of children raised in homes that are phenotypically and culturally different from their birth – people like my colleague Rebecca Carroll, who is black. She was raised in a white household and her white birth mother attempted to define her as “culturally white, and cosmetically black”. Writer Ellie Freeman clarified the distinction between actual transracial people and those like Dolezal: Being transracial is hardly similar to ‘feeling black’ … It’s not like gender dysphoria either – the politics of race and gender are not interchangeable in this context. Unlike many black Americans, Rachel’s family background does not carry the trauma of slavery and institutionalised racism. Unlike people who really are transracial, Rachel has not been physically torn between two cultures and denied intimate knowledge of her birth culture. Unlike people who are black and transracial adoptees, Rachel has not had to deal with both of these life-affecting experiences at the same time. In other words, Dolezal’s black adopted brothers could be considered transracial, if they chose to define themselves that way – which does not negate their blackness – but Dolezal herself is not. And Dolezal’s insistence that, for it to be “plausible” to be seen as the mother of her adopted brother, Izaiah, of whom she gained custody in 2010, “I certainly can’t be seen as white”, doesn’t make her transracial as that term has always been understood. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/16/transracial-definition-destructive-rachel-dolezal-spokane-naacp Edited July 23, 2017 by seeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted July 23, 2017 #6 Share Posted July 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Lilly said: Can I choose my own age, race, ethnic origin as well? I thought all women chose their own age? Regarding the whole gender/race debate, you are born a certain race but gender isn't so black and white. How Science Is Helping Us Understand Gender Quote Many of us learned in high school biology that sex chromosomes determine a baby’s sex, full stop: XX means it’s a girl; XY means it’s a boy. But on occasion, XX and XY don’t tell the whole story. Today we know that the various elements of what we consider “male” and “female” don’t always line up neatly, with all the XXs—complete with ovaries, vagina, estrogen, female gender identity, and feminine behavior—on one side and all the XYs—testes, penis, testosterone, male gender identity, and masculine behavior—on the other. It’s possible to be XX and mostly male in terms of anatomy, physiology, and psychology, just as it’s possible to be XY and mostly female. Non binary gender is a real thing. It exists. It's not attention seekers or confused people (though it must be confusing at first) or fabricated or a mental condition. While race is set in stone before you're even born. The creator of that video is both black and transgender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #7 Share Posted July 23, 2017 26 minutes ago, seeder said: She also bought legal action because she was 'white' and felt discriminated against and The Guardian is just defending their version of transsexualism and transphobia. They are highly opinionated on this topic. Psychologists said there is no real difference to other feelings of dysphoria. I'll try to dig that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted July 23, 2017 #8 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, FLOMBIE said: Yes, you can. Rachel Dolezal established transracialism. And then there is this old British guy who lives like a little girl, with, like he puts it, very supportive adoptive parents. I guess that's transageism. Edit: But, oops, it's not what you "choose". You got to be born in the wrong body. The difference is that no one chooses to be transgender. And Rachel did not establish transracialism. The term was hijacked to describe her deception. See the above video. Edited July 23, 2017 by ExpandMyMind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 23, 2017 #9 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Am i going to have to look up Rachel Doolazal or whatever her* name was to find out whether it's yet another person** that's actually really really famous among people who follow twitter and things? * I'm assuming ** I'm assuming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #10 Share Posted July 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: The difference is that no one chooses to be transgender. And Rachel did not establish transracialism. The term was hijacked to describe her deception. See the above video. First of all, that "established" post was very tongue in cheek. And Kat Blaque? Really? Why would she have an authority on this? I try to look at it from a psychologist point of view. And there you won't see a different in the dysphoria they feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted July 23, 2017 #11 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, FLOMBIE said: Yes, you can. Rachel Dolezal established transracialism. And then there is this old British guy who lives like a little girl, with, like he puts it, very supportive adoptive parents. I guess that's transageism. No,. that's just creepiness. Particularly if he likes to invite all his little playmates round for tea. Edited July 23, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted July 23, 2017 #12 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said: First of all, that "established" post was very tongue in cheek. And Kat Blaque? Really? Why would she have an authority on this? I try to look at it from a psychologist point of view. And there you won't see a different in the dysphoria they feel. But it's not just a psychological issue, it's primarily a biological one. We are understanding this more and more every year, as the article I linked to above will show. And being both black and transgender, I'd say Kat (who I certainly don't always agree with, to put it mildly) is something of an authority compared to most people. But it basically comes down to this: to "change" your race is a choice, but there is no choice when it comes to your gender, anymore than there is a choice when it comes to sexuality. Edited July 23, 2017 by ExpandMyMind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted July 23, 2017 #13 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I'm not sure how a doctor would know more about how a person feels regarding gender than they do. What would they be able to examine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #14 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Just now, ExpandMyMind said: But it's not just a psychological issue, it's primarily a biological one. We are understanding this more and more every year, as the article I linked to above will show. And being both black and transgender, I'd say Kat (who I certainly don't always agree with, to put it mildly) is something on an authority. But it basically comes down to this: to "change" your race is a choice, but there is no choice when it comes to your gender, anymore than there is a choice when it comes to sexuality. No. Genderdysphoria is a mental illness. And the only way to heal it is transition. Kat Blaque has just as much authority as you and I. Nothing more, nothing less. Being black and transsexual doesn't make an expert on these issues. Is it a choice? Rachel Dolezal claims she always felt black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted July 23, 2017 #15 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Just now, ChaosRose said: I'm not sure how a doctor would know more about how a person feels regarding gender than they do. What would they be able to examine? You've just described the entire problem with psychology. It's basically guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #16 Share Posted July 23, 2017 1 minute ago, ChaosRose said: I'm not sure how a doctor would know more about how a person feels regarding gender than they do. What would they be able to examine? Dysphoria can be psychologically diagnosed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted July 23, 2017 #17 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Give it a few more years and humans will be choosing what animal they want to be, I know some who already rats and there are already a few sheep about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted July 23, 2017 #18 Share Posted July 23, 2017 1 minute ago, FLOMBIE said: Dysphoria can be psychologically diagnosed. Well, they used to think being gay was a mental illness, too. Apparently, they have evolved away from that idea. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted July 23, 2017 #19 Share Posted July 23, 2017 @FLOMBIE Identifying with a race is not the same as being that race. It's not even close to the same thing as being - physically - a different gender than you appear. It is something you choose. You can enjoy their culture all the same without changing your skin. I'm not sure how you can't see the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #20 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Just now, ChaosRose said: Well, they used to think being gay was a mental illness, too. Apparently, they have evolved away from that idea. That is really different. Dyshoria is a mental illness that people suffer under. It's a symptom of being transgender. You can treat it by transitioning. I am not saying transgenderism is a mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #21 Share Posted July 23, 2017 1 minute ago, ExpandMyMind said: @FLOMBIE Identifying with a race is not the same as being that race. It's not even close to the same thing as being - physically - a different gender than you appear. It is something you choose. You can enjoy their culture all the same without changing your skin. I'm not sure how you can't see the difference. I don't see the difference. If you can be born in a different, or wrongly, gendered body, why not in a "misraced" body? And what about otherkin? They are somewhat established in the LGBTQ+ community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #22 Share Posted July 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, freetoroam said: Give it a few more years and humans will be choosing what animal they want to be, I know some who already rats and there are already a few sheep about. They are already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #23 Share Posted July 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: You've just described the entire problem with psychology. It's basically guesswork. LOL. Are you a scientologist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted July 23, 2017 #24 Share Posted July 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said: I don't see the difference. If you can be born in a different, or wrongly, gendered body, why not in a "misraced" body? And what about otherkin? They are somewhat established in the LGBTQ+ community. Because race isn't fluid, it's decided before you are even conceived. Set in stone by our very DNA. The process of gender designation is not. It starts in the womb (all people starting as female) and we now know it continues with some people even after they're born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted July 23, 2017 #25 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Just now, ExpandMyMind said: Because race isn't fluid, it's decided before you are even conceived. Set in stone by our very DNA. The process of gender designation is not. It starts in the womb (all people starting as female) and we now know it continues with some people even after they're born. Gender, or rather sex, isn't fluid either. And skin tones change as well. I don't get your point at all. What you are describing sounds more like a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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