ExpandMyMind Posted July 23, 2017 #1 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Wow Quote An American soldier has been charged with attempting to provide material support and military secrets to Isis. Ikaika Erik Kang, a sergeant military air traffic controller, is accused of trying to pass military documents classified as "secret", a small drone and training to people he believed were Isis supporters but were actually undercover FBI agents. He is also said to have sworn allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the founder and self-declared leader of Isis. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/isis-us-solider-ikaika-erik-kang-charged-military-secrets-classified-documents-hawaii-fbi-a7855236.html This might end up being the first case of treason in the US in over half a century. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 24, 2017 #2 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Rats in the walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 24, 2017 #3 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Have to have declared war for it to be treason. Material support to terrorists maybe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 24, 2017 #4 Share Posted July 24, 2017 50 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: Wow http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/isis-us-solider-ikaika-erik-kang-charged-military-secrets-classified-documents-hawaii-fbi-a7855236.html This might end up being the first case of treason in the US in over half a century. Lending significant aid to an enemy we are currently in active combat against is justification for the death penalty. If his crimes are proven he should be shot. It would amaze me if he actually is punished in any significant way. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.ZZ. Posted July 24, 2017 #5 Share Posted July 24, 2017 I think he should face a firing squad, but that's just me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 24, 2017 #6 Share Posted July 24, 2017 3 hours ago, and then said: Lending significant aid to an enemy we are currently in active combat against is justification for the death penalty. If his crimes are proven he should be shot. It would amaze me if he actually is punished in any significant way. We kind of watered down everything by doing "Police Actions" and not having congress declare war. There will be no death penalty. Congress and the presidents have done this on purpose- to protect themselves as much as it protects the traitors amongst us. Probably because in many instances they are the one and the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted July 24, 2017 #7 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Gromdor said: We kind of watered down everything by doing "Police Actions" and not having congress declare war. There will be no death penalty. Congress and the presidents have done this on purpose- to protect themselves as much as it protects the traitors amongst us. Probably because in many instances they are the one and the same. Declaring war or not doesn't really have an effect on treason charges. Treason and it's punishment falls under Section 110 of Article III of the US constitution and is defined as "Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason." The two import parts in that which is relevant to this is levying war and the or which provides a seperate means of being tried for treason. Levying war is an actual legal term coming from English law and is distinct from war being declared. Levying war is defined as "The assembling of a body of men for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable object; and all who perform any part however minute, or however remote from the scene of action, and who are leagued in the general conspiracy, are considered as engaged in levying war, within the meaning of the constitution." http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Levying+war From that definition it is clear that war being declared is not required for one to fall under levying war. As for the or, and everything that comes after it, there is clearly no requirement for war to be declared to aid or comfort enemies. In international law for one to be classified as an enemy there has to be a state of war but under US law the definition of enemy is significantly more broad. Under US law an enemy is defined as "enemy of the United States means any country, government, group, or person that has been engaged in hostilities, whether or not lawfully authorized, with the United States;" https://definitions.uslegal.com/e/enemy-of-the-united-states/ Once again war being declared is not required for one to be defined as an enemy under US law so therefore war being declared also isn't required for one to fall under the second part of a treason charge under US law. Ultimately war being declared or not has absolutely no bearing on if one can be tried for treason or not under US law. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted July 24, 2017 Author #8 Share Posted July 24, 2017 What he said ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 24, 2017 #9 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, DarkHunter said: Declaring war or not doesn't really have an effect on treason charges. Treason and it's punishment falls under Section 110 of Article III of the US constitution and is defined as "Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason." The two import parts in that which is relevant to this is levying war and the or which provides a seperate means of being tried for treason. Levying war is an actual legal term coming from English law and is distinct from war being declared. Levying war is defined as "The assembling of a body of men for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable object; and all who perform any part however minute, or however remote from the scene of action, and who are leagued in the general conspiracy, are considered as engaged in levying war, within the meaning of the constitution." http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Levying+war From that definition it is clear that war being declared is not required for one to fall under levying war. As for the or, and everything that comes after it, there is clearly no requirement for war to be declared to aid or comfort enemies. In international law for one to be classified as an enemy there has to be a state of war but under US law the definition of enemy is significantly more broad. Under US law an enemy is defined as "enemy of the United States means any country, government, group, or person that has been engaged in hostilities, whether or not lawfully authorized, with the United States;" https://definitions.uslegal.com/e/enemy-of-the-united-states/ Once again war being declared is not required for one to be defined as an enemy under US law so therefore war being declared also isn't required for one to fall under the second part of a treason charge under US law. Ultimately war being declared or not has absolutely no bearing on if one can be tried for treason or not under US law. Actually, the lawyers explicitly pointed out during the Don Trump Jr. email investigation that Treason can only happen during a time of war. The guy will be tried under the UCMJ instead of the regular court system as well as he is military. You don't have to believe me if you want. Just wait for the charges to be revealed. Treason won't be one of them. Edited July 24, 2017 by Gromdor Wrong Trump 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted July 24, 2017 #10 Share Posted July 24, 2017 This thread is reminding me how ridiculous it is thst we go to war with people without actually declaring war ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted July 24, 2017 #11 Share Posted July 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Gromdor said: Actually, the lawyers explicitly pointed out during the Don Trump Jr. email investigation that Treason can only happen during a time of war. The guy will be tried under the UCMJ instead of the regular court system as well as he is military. You don't have to believe me if you want. Just wait for the charges to be revealed. Treason won't be one of them. Lawyers are not infallible and can be mistaken, mispoken, or just out right lie in an attempt to sway public opinion. On October 11, 2006 Adam Yahiye Gradahn, an American who joined Al Qaeda and worked as a senior operative, cultural interpreter, spokesman, and media advisor was charged with treason by a federal grand jury under aiding an enemy but was killed in a drone strike a few years later before he could be captured and brought in for trial. As for if he will be charged with treason or not that will depend on if the prosecution will have the needed number of eye witnesses. The law requires two desperate eye witnesses which isn't the easiest thing to get and people have got off of treason charges in the past when only one eye witness has been able to be brought forward. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 24, 2017 #12 Share Posted July 24, 2017 in this case witnesses are feds. should not be a problem to get 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 24, 2017 #13 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Whelp, looks like he got indicted on four charges of attempting to provide material support for terrorism. I guess that settles the treason charge question. Edited July 24, 2017 by Gromdor Corrected charges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 24, 2017 #14 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Gromdor said: Whelp, looks like he got indicted on four charges of attempting to provide material support for terrorism. I guess that settles the treason charge question. If convicted he will spend his time either in an isolation cell or he would be killed by soldiers at Leavenworth. That'll do, pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 24, 2017 #15 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 hour ago, and then said: If convicted he will spend his time either in an isolation cell or he would be killed by soldiers at Leavenworth. That'll do, pig. 80yrs and $1,000,000 fine is what he is looking at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 24, 2017 #16 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Seems fair enough. I have a special type of venom for people who put on the uniform, swear an oath and then betray their comrades. Bergdahl should have been shot, straight up. The average joe that decides to hate his country is in a different class than those who've volunteered to defend her. It's why I gave Assange a pass and desired that hell be rained down on Manning. If a person has a desire to harm this country for our perceived wrongdoing then stay the hell out of the military or government work or they deserve what they get for planning to betray the rest of us. They become the enemy at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 25, 2017 #17 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I don't hate them. Many join because of their ideals and patriotism. The problem happens when their ideals and patriotism clashes with American reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now