Waspie_Dwarf Posted July 26, 2017 #1 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Traveling to Mars Will Wreak Havoc on Our Bodies – Can We Prevent It? UCSF Researchers Are Studying How to Sustain Well-Being During Prolonged Space Flights Quote As humans prepare to venture deeper into outer space, including potential trips to Mars, researchers are hard at work trying to understand and mitigate the effects of low gravity and radiation on space travelers’ bodies. “People think of technology as the limiting factor in space flight, but it’s not,” said Thomas Lang, PhD, a professor of radiology and biomedical imaging at UC San Francisco. “Human physiology is the limiting factor.” Read More: University of California San Francisco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted July 26, 2017 #2 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Very interesting. The psychological effects on people would be another significant limiting factor for deep space colonists or explorers. That coupled with the known physiological effects and technological limitations and vast distances between worlds, well the maths speaks for itself. Look up at the stars and behold, look down at the Earth and belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted July 27, 2017 Author #3 Share Posted July 27, 2017 14 hours ago, taniwha said: The psychological effects on people would be another significant limiting factor for deep space colonists or explorers. No it wouldn't be a significant limiting factor. Humans have been exploring vast distance in confined space for millennia. Crossing oceans in tiny boats took months. Unlike modern space explorers a large percentage of those ancient mariners could expect to die during the voyage, often of painful, lingering diseases such as scurvy. Astronauts have already spent periods well in excess of a year in space. They, unlike the explorers of the past, are thoroughly psychologically tested before they are even selected as astronauts. Crews are selected based not only on their skill sets but their compatibilities. In respect of the psychological pressures of confinement and isolation astronauts are far and away in a better position that submariners on a nuclear missile submarine. They can spend months at sea with no contact with their families, no windows to look out of and no idea where they actually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted July 27, 2017 #4 Share Posted July 27, 2017 On 26/07/2017 at 1:51 PM, taniwha said: That coupled with the known physiological effects and technological limitations and vast distances between worlds, well the maths speaks for itself. Look up at the stars and behold, look down at the Earth and belong. So because space exploration bears technological difficulties (which over time would lessen as new advances in various fields are made) as well as physiological/psychological strains (which might also, over time be mitigated by better technology) we should never attempt to leave this planet? That doesn't really add up to me. Personally I'm not interested in going to Mars (I would be if it was a living world with plants and water and junk) but I do consider the possibility to go their as an important stepping stone in humanity's future development. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted July 29, 2017 #5 Share Posted July 29, 2017 On 28/07/2017 at 5:34 AM, Orphalesion said: So because space exploration bears technological difficulties (which over time would lessen as new advances in various fields are made) as well as physiological/psychological strains (which might also, over time be mitigated by better technology) we should never attempt to leave this planet? That doesn't really add up to me. Personally I'm not interested in going to Mars (I would be if it was a living world with plants and water and junk) but I do consider the possibility to go their as an important stepping stone in humanity's future development. Man left the planet plenty of times already. https://www.worldspaceflight.com/bios/stats.php Here is a list of fatalities directly related to the US space programme. http://www.airsafe.com/events/space/astrofat.htm And further related incidents/accidents https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents Safety is the real issue.Humans are ill-evolved for space travel physiologically, psychologically, and technologically. I don't think all the preparation in the world will ever make us 'ready'. Its unnatural to want to leave the planet for good and unrealistic to expect we ever will. We are bound by the universal law of reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted July 29, 2017 #6 Share Posted July 29, 2017 1 hour ago, taniwha said: Man left the planet plenty of times already. https://www.worldspaceflight.com/bios/stats.php Here is a list of fatalities directly related to the US space programme. http://www.airsafe.com/events/space/astrofat.htm And further related incidents/accidents https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents Safety is the real issue. Just to nitpick, but there have been no fatalities in space ever. Seven people have died during launch (Challenger) and eleven people have died during reentry (Columbia, Soyuz 1 and 11). 1 hour ago, taniwha said: Humans are ill-evolved for space travel physiologically, psychologically, and technologically. I don't think all the preparation in the world will ever make us 'ready'. Personally I think we will leave this planet, because we are basically explorers at heart. Just because we aren't evolved to live somewhere doesn't mean we can't, thats what technology is for. 1 hour ago, taniwha said: Its unnatural to want to leave the planet for good and unrealistic to expect we ever will. Isn't it in human nature to explore new places and exploit new opportunities ? If humans weren't like that we wouldn't have spread out all over the World as fast as we did. 1 hour ago, taniwha said: We are bound by the universal law of reality. What is that ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted July 29, 2017 #7 Share Posted July 29, 2017 2 hours ago, taniwha said: Its unnatural to want to leave the planet for good and unrealistic to expect we ever will. No more unnatural than emigrating from England to Australia .... Personally I'd love to get off this crazy over-crowded world. Put me to sleep, wake me in 10,000 years as we land on a new earth-like planet but without any humans and I'd be in paradise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted July 29, 2017 #8 Share Posted July 29, 2017 6 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: Just to nitpick, but there have been no fatalities in space ever. Seven people have died during launch (Challenger) and eleven people have died during reentry (Columbia, Soyuz 1 and 11). Personally I think we will leave this planet, because we are basically explorers at heart. Just because we aren't evolved to live somewhere doesn't mean we can't, thats what technology is for. Isn't it in human nature to explore new places and exploit new opportunities ? If humans weren't like that we wouldn't have spread out all over the World as fast as we did. What is that ? If space travel happens then there will be fatalities, that is one universal reality. The question then is when do we pull the plug? Yes humans are curious and adventurous but in reality we are earth bound creatures. I agree, spreading over the world is natural. This planet has everything we need to survive. Humans are designed to be here for a reason, just as the lifeless wastelands of Mars are designed to be there for a reason. If we could get there it won't be for long and I doubt technology will evolve that we can live there. Perhaps robots could construct habitats but that might take centuries, so again reality is against us. Technology fails. Humans err. The universal law of reality means that something's are not meant to be, and other things are simply impossible. Here's an interesting article from a few years back Quote Why Space Is The Impossible Frontier By Theunis Piersma Dreams of long-haul space travel or even colonisation ignore basic biological constraints that anchor us firmly to the Earth, argues Theunis Piersma https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.newscientist.com/article/mg20827860-100-why-space-is-the-impossible-frontier/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted July 29, 2017 #9 Share Posted July 29, 2017 6 hours ago, Essan said: No more unnatural than emigrating from England to Australia .... Personally I'd love to get off this crazy over-crowded world. Put me to sleep, wake me in 10,000 years as we land on a new earth-like planet but without any humans and I'd be in paradise The difference is that the Earth provides, it's not called Mother Earth for nothing. All the challenges with space travel make emigrating from England to Australia a relative walk in the park. I like science fiction, and dreams are free. There is probably enough worlds out there that each person can have a planet to themselves. Personally good luck I wish everyone farewell. Just leave me. I like it here. You might like to read this first. Quote Interstellar Travel as Delusional Fantasy A popular critique of a voyage to the stars reveals the hazards of becoming hoodwinked by tragically misconstrued “pathological technologies” that promise us possibilities impossible to realize https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/interstellar-travel-as-delusional-fantasy-excerpt/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted July 29, 2017 #10 Share Posted July 29, 2017 I like it fine enough here - Ideally everyone else would b***** off somewhere else ( I am not a people person, despite runng a retail business in which being a people person is one of my main unique selling points .... (and I am quite good at it - but it does wear me out!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted July 29, 2017 #11 Share Posted July 29, 2017 On 27/07/2017 at 2:38 PM, Waspie_Dwarf said: No it wouldn't be a significant limiting factor. Humans have been exploring vast distance in confined space for millennia. Crossing oceans in tiny boats took months. Unlike modern space explorers a large percentage of those ancient mariners could expect to die during the voyage, often of painful, lingering diseases such as scurvy. Astronauts have already spent periods well in excess of a year in space. They, unlike the explorers of the past, are thoroughly psychologically tested before they are even selected as astronauts. Crews are selected based not only on their skill sets but their compatibilities. In respect of the psychological pressures of confinement and isolation astronauts are far and away in a better position that submariners on a nuclear missile submarine. They can spend months at sea with no contact with their families, no windows to look out of and no idea where they actually are. Space is not the ocean, it doesn't compare really but I get your point. I found this article interesting and informative about what's called the Break-off Effect and Overview Effect Quote The Virgin Galactic crash made the mechanical risks of space tourism clearer, but the psychological effects of space travel largely remain unknown https://www.fastcompany.com/3036887/out-of-this-world-the-mysterious-mental-side-effects-of-traveling-into-space-2 And further related... Quote Why the mental health of astronauts is one of the biggest hurdles when it comes to successful space missions https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/05/hallucinations-isolation-astronauts-mental-health-space-missions Pertaining to a manned Mars mission... Quote The psychological effects of space travel... https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.redplanetnutrition.com/psychological-effects-of-space-travel/&ved=0ahUKEwiLrPmmya_VAhXEGZQKHT6_CyAQFgguMAE&usg=AFQjCNGSrJoSiiCN5oa0v_EQ-MFsGeBFIw I'm sure there is plenty more information to be found about the changing psychological behaviour of humans confined inside deep water submarines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Caspian Hare Posted July 30, 2017 #12 Share Posted July 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: Just to nitpick, but there have been no fatalities in space ever. Seven people have died during launch (Challenger) and eleven people have died during reentry (Columbia, Soyuz 1 and 11). Soyuz 11 cosmonauts died in space. Reentry procedure was underway but they were still in space when they die. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted July 30, 2017 #13 Share Posted July 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Russian Hare said: Soyuz 11 cosmonauts died in space. Reentry procedure was underway but they were still in space when they die. Thats true. My bad. Still I don't buy taniwha's idea that we won't go into space because it is dangerous. All astronauts/cosmonauts/taikonauts have known about the risks and yet they still went there. Gus Grissom summed it up quite well: "If we die, we want people to accept it. We are in a risky business, and we hope that if anything happens to us it will not delay the program. The conquest of space is worth the risk of life" Later he did die in an accident. (Apollo 1) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted July 30, 2017 #14 Share Posted July 30, 2017 I think the hardest part would be that you most likely won't ever come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 30, 2017 #15 Share Posted July 30, 2017 "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." Arthur C. Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted July 30, 2017 #16 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, taniwha said: Man left the planet plenty of times already. 1) Why do you assume that I am unaware of space exploration? Your statement was: Quote Look up at the stars and behold, look down at the Earth and belong. So you were suggesting never to leave the planet (again). A mindset which I argued against. Quote Here is a list of fatalities directly related to the US space programme. And now you think I'm not aware of the fatalities associated with the space program... Ever looked at the fatalities that primitive ocean crossings caused? Ever looked at the fatalities modern day sea travel, air travel and crossing the street still cause? I never said it's not dangerous, which is why the brave individuals who are daring enough to allow themselves to be hurled into space in a tiny hull have my admiration. Quote Safety is the real issue.Humans are ill-evolved for space travel physiologically, psychologically, and technologically. I don't think all the preparation in the world will ever make us 'ready'. 1) Depends on your definition of "ready". Will we ever manage to negate all risks and negative side effects? Probably not, but if we only did things without risks we shouldn't even leave the house. 2) In case you didn't notice evolution is still going on at this very moment and if we count technological evolution, then you can be very sure that we're still gonna see a lot of advancements within our lifetimes. A lot of what we have today would have seen magic and wondrous in earlier times. Who knows what we'll manage to come up with eventually? Quote Its unnatural to want to leave the planet for good Pffffft! That isn't even an argument. That's just your opinion. Please tell me what other desires are "unnatural"? Who is deciding that wanting to leave the planet on a permanent basis is "unnatural"? You? God? The Planet Fairy? Quote and unrealistic to expect we ever will. We are bound by the universal law of reality. So because you can't imagine it and (apparently) don't want it. Nobody else is allowed to even desire it, ever. I'm not talking about inter-solar shuttle buses Tau Ceti next year. I'm talking about a future generation being able to do the jump at some point. Again I have no desire to settle on or visit Mars myself, but I'd find humanity visiting it a very important and historical step. Edited July 30, 2017 by Orphalesion typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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