Still Waters Posted July 26, 2017 #1 Share Posted July 26, 2017 All sales of new petrol and diesel cars will cease in the UK by 2040, under plans to tackle air pollution. But with electric cars currently accounting for less than 1% of new sales, the switch will mean seismic changes, and gives rise to a host of pressing questions. Why are petrol and diesel cars being banned? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40726868 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted July 26, 2017 #2 Share Posted July 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Still Waters said: All sales of new petrol and diesel cars will cease in the UK by 2040, under plans to tackle air pollution. But with electric cars currently accounting for less than 1% of new sales, the switch will mean seismic changes, and gives rise to a host of pressing questions. Why are petrol and diesel cars being banned? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40726868 Not for environmental reasons, I can tell you that. They are always talking about "making cars more efficient" and telling us to take public transit or car pool to help the environment... Didn't we conclude that one private jet flight is equivalent to years and years of the same trip in a car? If they want us peons to take global warming and "green energy" more seriously, they need to start leading by example. "They" are industry leaders, CEO's, celebrities and other elites. What are you doing to cut back carbon emissions in your factories? How are you "going green" with your waste products? Is the majority of your power coming from coal? They know how this looks but I don't think they care. It's a rich man's world. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted July 26, 2017 #3 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Well the Saudis are going to pleased! how are they going to keep buying our arms if we are not buying their fuel? Not sure how they are going to sort out the charging up of cars, there are too many cars on the roads as it is, let alone by 2040, can you imaging them all queuing up to charge their cars. There will have to be an awful lot of charging points. Let alone the amount of electricity which will be used. Too many cars - and far too many lazy people. I witness mothers driving their kids 100 yards to school in their range rover evoke and parking on the white zig zags, people driving to the shops which are less than a half hour walk away. THIS is what needs addressing. Cut down the number of cars and get the lazy b*****s walk. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted July 26, 2017 #4 Share Posted July 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: Not for environmental reasons, I can tell you that. They are always talking about "making cars more efficient" and telling us to take public transit or car pool to help the environment... Didn't we conclude that one private jet flight is equivalent to years and years of the same trip in a car? If they want us peons to take global warming and "green energy" more seriously, they need to start leading by example. "They" are industry leaders, CEO's, celebrities and other elites. What are you doing to cut back carbon emissions in your factories? How are you "going green" with your waste products? Is the majority of your power coming from coal? They know how this looks but I don't think they care. It's a rich man's world. But the UK are ok with this, imagine the numbers of flights by 2040: Quote UK air traffic controllers were expecting to handle more than 8,800 flights on Friday – the busiest day on record for UK airspace – https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2017/jul/21/uk-airspace-faces-busiest-ever-day-as-summer-getaway-begins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted July 26, 2017 #5 Share Posted July 26, 2017 10 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: Didn't we conclude that one private jet flight is equivalent to years and years of the same trip in a car? I dont think that bizz jets are an issue due to the relative small fleet but I say the much, much bigger issue are ships. The very majority of the global fleet is still fueled with MDO (Marine Diesel Oil) which is the dirtiest oil based fuel available and the enviromental limitations and restrictions for ships are still near to zero. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted July 26, 2017 #6 Share Posted July 26, 2017 20 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: Not for environmental reasons, I can tell you that. They are always talking about "making cars more efficient" and telling us to take public transit or car pool to help the environment... Didn't we conclude that one private jet flight is equivalent to years and years of the same trip in a car? If they want us peons to take global warming and "green energy" more seriously, they need to start leading by example. "They" are industry leaders, CEO's, celebrities and other elites. What are you doing to cut back carbon emissions in your factories? How are you "going green" with your waste products? Is the majority of your power coming from coal? They know how this looks but I don't think they care. It's a rich man's world. Agreed. The wealthy fly around the world on private jets, Oil companies pump chemicals into the ground and destroy water tables and can't wait to get into the pristine wilds of the world with drilling equipment, but we peons are at fault here and the way we can solve this problem is to have light bulbs which will give you cancer if you break one and to use the same grocery bag for the rest of your life. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 26, 2017 #7 Share Posted July 26, 2017 lol, you'll have to learn from cuba, how to keep cars running for 50 years, also the ban only applies to new cars, that use gas or diesel not natural gas. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted July 26, 2017 #8 Share Posted July 26, 2017 16 minutes ago, toast said: I dont think that bizz jets are an issue due to the relative small fleet but I say the much, much bigger issue are ships. The very majority of the global fleet is still fueled with MDO (Marine Diesel Oil) which is the dirtiest oil based fuel available and the enviromental limitations and restrictions for ships are still near to zero. I don't bizz jets are the issue, but they make a great example for these kinds of discussions. Private jets are big polluters and a sign of opulence. Agreed on the ships, we could also add long-haul trucks. Millions and millions of big rigs all over the world 8 minutes ago, OverSword said: and the way we can solve this problem is to have light bulbs which will give you cancer if you break one and to use the same grocery bag for the rest of your life. The last bit had me LOL'ng - that's a perfect example lmao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted July 26, 2017 #9 Share Posted July 26, 2017 8 minutes ago, aztek said: lol, you'll have to learn from cuba, how to keep cars running for 50 years, also the ban only applies to new cars, that use gas or diesel not natural gas. I wonder sometimes how much headway we have really made in terms of automotive efficiency. There's no denying we have vastly improved the efficiency of the internal combustion engine by using fuel injectors, more sophisticated ignition systems, piston shapes, etc. When you add on 300lbs of emissions equipment, the exhaust gases are coming out cleaner but is the engine actually performing more efficiently? For example, I get 500KM to the tank, almost like clockwork. My wife drives a totally different class of vehicle, different gas tank size, different engine etc. and she also gets ~500KM from a tank. I get there is an industry standard for fuel efficiency that auto makers like to reach, (probably around that 500/tank mark,) but I feel like cars in the 1980's were getting approx the same mileage. Hell, I've heard of cars from the 1950's staying competitive with modern fuel economy which is what prompted this reply. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 26, 2017 #10 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) prbly not much, my 1996 old 88 did 28-29mpg on a highway, it had 3,8l engine, was full size sedan, my 2016 sonata gets about 30, has 2,4l engine that feels half as powerfull, especially with ac on. my wifes bmw 335 burns more gas, and it's smaller than both cars above Edited July 26, 2017 by aztek 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted July 26, 2017 #11 Share Posted July 26, 2017 18 minutes ago, toast said: I dont think that bizz jets are an issue due to the relative small fleet but I say the much, much bigger issue are ships. The very majority of the global fleet is still fueled with MDO (Marine Diesel Oil) which is the dirtiest oil based fuel available and the enviromental limitations and restrictions for ships are still near to zero. There are also boats on the rivers and canals in the UK, tractors and big farm yard machinery, they can not just scrap them all and make then all electric. It is doable for some boats to run on solar power and charge their batteries up when they reach a marina, We have seen it done, but it can only sail for short periods and is dependent on good weather. BUT as it stands, this ban is for cars. (at the moment) Ships are not affecting people living next to roads, although yes, they are not helping the seas. But forget passenger ships and planes, our imports which come from abroad by the ships, lorries and planes from these countries all use diesel, is England going to ban them arriving here? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted July 26, 2017 #12 Share Posted July 26, 2017 As I understand it once the batteries in electric cars are no good anymore they become some of the more toxic items in a landfill. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skookum Posted July 26, 2017 #13 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) Extended to 2060 by 2028. In the meantime I will continue to drive my 4 litre Grand Cherokee for 6 miles each way to to work during the unsociable hours public transport doesn't run. Why do I need such a big car? I don't but it had 60k miles on it for under 2k and is reliable driving through rural areas at 3-4 am. I produce less pollution than the average motorist and even less when I run on LPG. The only feasible electric car I will travel in in my life time at 45 is an electric hearse. Edited July 26, 2017 by skookum 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 26, 2017 #14 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Just now, OverSword said: As I understand it once the batteries in electric cars are no good anymore they become some of the more toxic items in a landfill. i think there will be more environmental harm building those cells than disposing them, we most likely wont just dump them, we'll recycle the materials as much as we could, i'm sure someone will find a way to make money on recycling li ion cells, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 26, 2017 #15 Share Posted July 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Dark_Grey said: I don't bizz jets are the issue, but they make a great example for these kinds of discussions. Private jets are big polluters and a sign of opulence. Agreed on the ships, we could also add long-haul trucks. Millions and millions of big rigs all over the world I think the other thing that really gets me about private jets is that they're completely unnecessary. They might not contribute as much as commercial flights but they could be removed with very little inconvenience. I'm very much pro green energy but I don't think banning petrol and diesel cars is the solution. Electricity has to come from somewhere too. I'd say first step is make electricity without fossil fuels then use that electricity to power cars. This is backwards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted July 27, 2017 #16 Share Posted July 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Setton said: I think the other thing that really gets me about private jets is that they're completely unnecessary. They might not contribute as much as commercial flights but they could be removed with very little inconvenience. I'm very much pro green energy but I don't think banning petrol and diesel cars is the solution. Electricity has to come from somewhere too. I'd say first step is make electricity without fossil fuels then use that electricity to power cars. This is backwards. Great post. Changing the way we obtain our energy is going to be key. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnchorSteam Posted July 27, 2017 #17 Share Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, freetoroam said: There are also boats on the rivers and canals in the UK, tractors and big farm yard machinery, they can not just scrap them all and make then all electric. It is doable for some boats to run on solar power and charge their batteries up when they reach a marina, We have seen it done, but it can only sail for short periods and is dependent on good weather. BUT as it stands, this ban is for cars. (at the moment) Ships are not affecting people living next to roads, although yes, they are not helping the seas. But forget passenger ships and planes, our imports which come from abroad by the ships, lorries and planes from these countries all use diesel, is England going to ban them arriving here? I think they will either have to admit that they are revoking freedom to travel as you please (if you are a commoner, that is) or just revoke the whole stupid thing someday. Meanwhile, in the here and now, all the creeps that voted this in get to line their pockets with George Soros's money, and fantasize about how much more money they can squeeze out of everyone that wants an 'exemption' for whatever reason. Edited July 27, 2017 by AnchorSteam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugenonegin Posted July 27, 2017 #18 Share Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) Quote Prince Charles- just one man but he has campaigned tirelessly to get the environmental message through. This has sometimes (well, always) , meant taking a private jet all around the world so he can speak at conferences. In his many multi-roomed mansions in the UK, he has spoken to his many out-door staff to try to use their diesel 4x4s less , but obviously they have to make sure his estates are prepared for the shooting season, when his guests will arrive from all over the world to shoot birds. He is hoping to get all of us in the UK to cut down on our shooting parties, banquets, reduce our staff slightly (perhaps a few less pastry cooks, or a few less gamekeepers?), and private jet use to help the environment. Well, I called all my staff together this morning to tell them to tighten their belts, and found I don't have any staff.Not one pastry chef, gamekeeper, maid or housekeeper turned up. Perhaps they are walking to work to save the environment. Edited July 27, 2017 by eugeneonegin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted July 27, 2017 #19 Share Posted July 27, 2017 The car industry is already embracing electric. Its the way forward for a cleaner brighter future, im on-board with the concept. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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