Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Brave Moderate Imam Speaks Out


Lilly

Recommended Posts

They're not. This dude is massively ostracized. I feel sorry or him. Islam is the most cruel and unforgiving religion on earth.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's pretty simple. It's either in the text or it isn't. 

Now, if it's in the text, people can choose whether or not they focus on it, but they can't deny it's there. 

And there are probably many more moderates who are afraid to talk about this. People have a way of ending up dead. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a problem with religious texts that they are often contradictory. It may very well say both things...that the infidel should die, and that no one should kill the innocent. I would question that they are viewing the infidels as innocents. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Reilly. said:

They're not. This dude is massively ostracized. I feel sorry or him. Islam is the most cruel and unforgiving religion on earth.

That is simply not true.

I haven't the time just now to respond fully to statements and to the video, but will leave this article here. The thrust of it is that anyone who says the Quran advocates terrorism obviously hasn't read its lessons on violence. I suggest that you and others read it.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ChaosRose do not believe the lies. The religious texts are not contradictory. Rather, they are clarified by multiple other books other than the Qur'an (like the Sudas, etc.). More to the fact, in the book it says that (and I am paraphrasing) the older stuff is secondary to the newer stuff. Which would be all good and well, except that the Qur'an starts out relatively chill and then becomes the manifesto of a middle eastern warlord who also just happened to be a horrible racist, a rapist of women, a murderer and a pedophile.

The problem is the people worshiping this lunatic justify his horrific crimes and continue to idolize what is ultimately one of the most evil men in literary history. Then again, as the old Islamic saying goes "The only thing Hitler did wrong was that he didn't kill ALL the Jews" so what should we expect from these people? lol

Edited by Reilly.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Claire. said:

That is simply not true.

I haven't the time just now to respond fully to statements and to the video, but will leave this article here. The thrust of it is that anyone who says the Quran advocates terrorism obviously hasn't read its lessons on violence. I suggest that you and others read it.

I've studied the Qur'an for 6 years. I am very familiar with it. Anyone who is not, I would direct to the studies and presentations of Islamic Scholar, Bill Warner.

Edited by Reilly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

It's a problem with religious texts that they are often contradictory. It may very well say both things...that the infidel should die, and that no one should kill the innocent. I would question that they are viewing the infidels as innocents. 

Nope in Islam they are not viewed as innocent rather as people who are misguided and should be brought under fold either by peace or by force . Once an Islamic scholar said no matter what good deeds you do , how peacefully you lead your life you will not be granted heaven until you accept allah and his prophet . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

It's a problem with religious texts that they are often contradictory. It may very well say both things...that the infidel should die, and that no one should kill the innocent. I would question that they are viewing the infidels as innocents. 

Nope in Islam they are not viewed as innocent rather as people who are misguided and should be brought under fold either by peace or by force . Once an Islamic scholar said no matter what good deeds you do , how peacefully you lead your life you will not be granted heaven until you accept allah and his prophet . 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone who leaves Islam is an Apostate and must be executed.

Christians and Jews are allowed to stay within Islamic Society as a Class of people called Dhimmi, but the cost for their "freedom" is a tax. And in the following verse it says that they should be terrorized and kept in check until they come to Allah.

Atheists would of course be considered Apostates and Sharia demands their execution.

Then there is Taquiyya (I'm probably spelling that wrong but it is late) which is the holy right of Islamists to lie and misdirect non-Muslims so they can manipulate them into a position of weakness and vulnerability. This is an evil religion, anyone who says otherwise is just going off the warm and fuzzies and clearly hasen't read the book for themselves.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Claire. said:

That is simply not true.

I haven't the time just now to respond fully to statements and to the video, but will leave this article here. The thrust of it is that anyone who says the Quran advocates terrorism obviously hasn't read its lessons on violence. I suggest that you and others read it.

The entire Koran is oriented towards violent expansion. Taken in totality it all points in that direction.

The Hadiths are even more explicit and arguably worse.

All it takes to get praise lavished upon as a "moderate muslim" is to not want to blow people up. Awfully low bar we set for Islam, isn't it.

That said the guy in the video, I have seen him for a while, he seem sincere, but he is going through mental gymnastics to try to change a religion that is fundamentally violent and intolerant (which he admits readily.)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, The Russian Hare said:

The entire Koran is oriented towards violent expansion. Taken in totality it all points in that direction.

The Hadiths are even more explicit and arguably worse.

All it takes to get praise lavished upon as a "moderate muslim" is to not want to blow people up. Awfully low bar we set for Islam, isn't it.

That said the guy in the video, I have seen him for a while, he seem sincere, but he is going through mental gymnastics to try to change a religion that is fundamentally violent and intolerant (which he admits readily.)

No fair, I was saving the Hadiths as my Trump card for when people started telling me how wrong I am. It was going to be YUGE!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Reilly. said:

No fair, I was saving the Hadiths as my Trump card for when people started telling me how wrong I am. It was going to be YUGE!

I laugh when muslims say "Oh that's no in the Koran."

Koran by itself isn't even a quarter of Islam, and they know it. Except for a small sect called Koranists who reject all hadith as corrupt, and they are treated as heretics. Muslims say Koran is their only holy book but in fact they have several.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, The Russian Hare said:

I laugh when muslims say "Oh that's no in the Koran."

Koran by itself isn't even a quarter of Islam, and they know it. Except for a small sect called Koranists who reject all hadith as corrupt, and they are treated as heretics. Muslims say Koran is their only holy book but in fact they have several.

Exactly, I've got a story for you. So, I start studying Islam because I heard about the racism and I am an old school punk. So, I've been butting heads with Neo-Nazis for... ****... going on 22-24 years?  Anyway, point is I've read skinhead and white power manuals, right. Know the enemy and ****. And so I hear about the Alt-Right and all this racist **** and I'm like, rightio, time to learn Islam. So I just read the hell out of the Qur'an, like three different version. Takes me months. Because each time I finish reading a version of the Qur'an and talk to Muslims about it, they tell me it is the wrong one. So I read the book three times (And the thing says the same ****in' thing each time, right; the differences are tiny like sentence structure). And I am horrified by it. Its worse than the damn white power manuals. And the mental gymnastics involved is insane. But of course, after I finished the third version and spoke to the Imam, he said that my grievances were misunderstandings and I couldn't understand their meaning unless I read it in the original text. 

Apparently, my issue with Mohammad calling blacks "Rasin Heads" and being a genocidal psycho was just all bad translations of the English version of the book, in the three main versions they use to preach and teach in Australia. XD 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Reilly. said:

I've studied the Qur'an for 6 years. I am very familiar with it. Anyone who is not, I would direct to the studies and presentations of Islamic Scholar, Bill Warner.

Six years huh? Your posts here suggest otherwise.

As for Bill Warner, that wouldn't be the same Bill Warner who's listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hardliner anti-Muslim, would it? The answer happens to be yes. Here's the SPLC's brief intelligence report on him. As an FYI to those reading the report, Bill Warner is a pen name. His real name is Bill French.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Claire. said:

Six years huh? Your posts here suggest otherwise.

As for Bill Warner, that wouldn't be the same Bill Warner who's listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hardliner anti-Muslim, would it? The answer happens to be yes. Here's the SPLC's brief intelligence report on him. As an FYI to those reading the report, Bill Warner is a pen name. His real name is Bill French.

That is the one. But people aren't going to find his books looking for his real name. And of course he is a hardliner Anti-Muslim. Anyone who ACTUALLY reads the Qur'an and has half a brain in their head is going to end up an anti-Muslim. Being "Anti-Muslim" does not negate his qualifications or expertise.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

It's a problem with religious texts that they are often contradictory. It may very well say both things...that the infidel should die, and that no one should kill the innocent. I would question that they are viewing the infidels as innocents. 

There are contradictionsin Koran as in most religious books. This confuse Muhammed's followers so to satisfy their questions he gave "the doctrine of abrogation." Which states that later verses (chronologically) supercede earlier ones.  Koran itself is not in chronological order, but ordered from longest to shortest sura (except for the 1st sura which is brief), that's why reading it cover to cover is confusing.

The effect of this is that the earlier suras and verses of Muhammed about peace and tolerance (such as "to you your religion, unto me mine), which took place when he was a street preacher in Mecca and had no political power, are supercede by the later ones when he flee to Medina (with an angry  lynch mob on his heels, as he had made angery all the political leaders of Mecca.) At Medina he became a political and military leader and the earlier verses were replaced by violent ones advocating conquest and expansion.

And then very importantly is this: chronologically the final Sura of the Koran is number 9, the only one that does not begin with the phrase "in the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful" and which contain the famous verse of the sword (around 28 to 32) that command believers to go forth and conquer and subjugate the world.

All Koran is oriented to violent conquest. It is an ideology of tribal warfare. It is an arrow pointed in that direction. That is how Muhammed acted, that is how Koran is structured, that is how the companions of Muhammed who knew him acted in the years after his death. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Claire. said:

Six years huh? Your posts here suggest otherwise.

As for Bill Warner, that wouldn't be the same Bill Warner who's listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hardliner anti-Muslim, would it? The answer happens to be yes. Here's the SPLC's brief intelligence report on him. As an FYI to those reading the report, Bill Warner is a pen name. His real name is Bill French.

SPLC is an absolute fraud.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Reilly. said:

That is the one. But people aren't going to find his books looking for his real name. And of course he is a hardliner Anti-Muslim. Anyone who ACTUALLY reads the Qur'an and has half a brain in their head is going to end up an anti-Muslim. Being "Anti-Muslim" does not negate his qualifications or expertise.

He has no qualifications and no expertise. He is a hate monger pure and simple. And no, anyone who reads the Qu'ran and has half a brain in their head would not be spewing the hate-filled nonsense that you and others here are. It is both ignorant and unacceptable.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Claire. said:

He has no qualifications and no expertise. He is a hate monger pure and simple. And no, anyone who reads the Qu'ran and has half a brain in their head would not be spewing the hate-filled nonsense that you and others here are. It is both ignorant and unacceptable.

The guy is a recognized historian and one of the leading experts in Middle Eastern History in the west. XD

Taqiyya.jpg

Edited by Reilly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Claire. said:

He has no qualifications and no expertise. He is a hate monger pure and simple. And no, anyone who reads the Qu'ran and has half a brain in their head would not be spewing the hate-filled nonsense that you and others here are. It is both ignorant and unacceptable.

What qualification is necessary to understand Koran? Koran says repeatedly in multiple verses that is very clear.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, The Russian Hare said:

What qualification is necessary to understand Koran? Koran says repeatedly in multiple verses that is very clear.

At minimum, a knowledge of language, of history and of context

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Reilly. said:

But of course, after I finished the third version and spoke to the Imam, he said that my grievances were misunderstandings and I couldn't understand their meaning unless I read it in the original text. 

 

 

Guarantee you they do not apply that logic to other religions. Tell them maybe the Jews are right and they need to read Jewish holy texts in the original Hebrew.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Reilly. said:

The guy is a recognized historian and one of the leading experts in Middle Eastern History in the west. XD

His formal training is in mathematics and physics. He is not one of the leading experts in Middle Eastern history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Claire. said:

At minimum, a knowledge of language, of history and of context

Then most muslims, who do not speak ARabic (and Arabs who do not speak classical arabic of Muhammed's day) don't know their own religion. Which is a good thing, because it is awful.

Koran is worse when you put it in context, because the few nice verses get canceled out. And the history of Islam proves how violent its ideology is.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.