Last time God intervened in the World?

[+Sherapy]

12 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I would agree, except that you have many catholic people calling the changes heresies while  they are supported by an atheist reporter .  i will wait  and see how it evolves over the next 50 -`100  years before passing judgement    I find it ironic and amusing that the current pope has abandoned 2000 years of catholic dogma, and gone back to the biblical truths.  I must commend him for that. 

I am just amazed that it has not even made the news anywhere in the mainstream media, it is such a huge revision of doctrine. 

The point (for me) is Religion is man made influenced by popular demand; popular meaning different things depending on the distribution of power at various times in history. Now, with social media the power resides with the people, and fear by dogma is no longer gonna fly. 

The Catholics had to grow or eventually be extinct. I agree time will tell how it all pans out for them.

California was the first state to teach of the worlds religions as beliefs taken on faith, for two reasons one due to the incredible amount of diversity here and two as a reaction to 9/11, it was our collective response to the harmful effects of dogma, knowledge is power and there is no evidence for Gods of any  kind, we just don't know and have no way at this time to know of any gods, so if one aligns themselves with dogma, or advocates for a particular god, or claims exclusive knowledge for a god in the name of some apparition, or need, or tradition, or by way of personal relationship, etc. etc. they do so of their own accord and they do so on faith, period. 

And they say so, this is honesty, integrity and at the very least the intent to do no harm, and for me, Pope Francis is trying to move towards this. I too shall see what happens. 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

46 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Gosh, the thing is I have seen this fate first hand, and some endings are actually rejoiced when a person is no more, because the person was so self motivated, so selfish, so arrogant that their existence brought only mellow drama and harm to others, and they will come face to face with this. I don't mean like a cause and effect as in the western idea of karma, but the eastern idea of karma which is that which arises, becomes, in otherwords you can't have this without that. 

Do No Harm includes not being righteous, not being arrogant, it includes being responsible for your part in any relationship in life or the Internet understanding that if it has issues it is on you to change yourself until at which time unity has been reached. If the relationship is toxic then you end it, stay away from it etc. etc. 

We  are known by our actions, including our posts. 

Unless one gets the good death fast and quick, the single most desired thing I have seen is to be able to be at peace, if one has to wait for their death. 

I have seen suffering at the end and I can tell you no belief helps, one will reap the rewards of what they have sown, for good or bad  even if you have that one family member or friend or stranger that is kind, and most likely their will be many around,  but for the louse, it will sadly be to late, because in their arrogance they will fool themselves into thinking they can beat the grim reaper. Fear is an insidious thing and those that claim to have overcome it have no idea what they are blathering on about, but they will. Death has a way of getting ones full attention. 

Just my two cents.

I have witnessed death, too, my dear friend and there is--for the living--no beauty in it, only sadness if one loved the deceased. I know for you a certain death was release from bitter bondage, but I would like to think, idealistic old fool that I am, that in your heart there was, at least, a small measure of compassion. 

As for karma, I respect anyone's right to believe what they will. Myself, I'm rather leery of anything that smacks of predestination and abrogation of self-responsibility and determination.

I know I was a bit theatrical in my post; it should be heard in your mind in the voice of Charlton Heston. The idea of someone declaring someone else "not really a Christian" had me seething. 

As for belief being no comfort for the dying--that depends on the individual and the measure of their Faith and whether or not the ills of living out-weighs "flying to others that they know not of." I do not fear death, but I'm not at all enchanted with the thought of dying. Yet, I know it must be.

[+Sherapy]

8 minutes ago, Scudbuster said:

Well said, well spoken, Ms. Sherapy  

Thank you for the kind words. 

[GoldenWolf]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The idea of someone declaring someone else "not really a Christian" had me seething

Now you guy's know how we feel when a Christian calls one of us non-believers a Christian, or a child of "God".

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I have witnessed death, too, my dear friend and there is--for the living--no beauty in it, only sadness if one loved the deceased. I know for you a certain death was release from bitter bondage, but I would like to think, idealistic old fool that I am, that in your heart there was, at least, a small measure of compassion. 

As for karma, I respect anyone's right to believe what they will. Myself, I'm rather leery of anything that smacks of predestination and abrogation of self-responsibility and determination.

I know I was a bit theatrical in my post; it should be heard in your mind in the voice of Charlton Heston. The idea of someone declaring someone else "not really a Christian" had me seething. 

As for belief being no comfort for the dying--that depends on the individual and the measure of their Faith and whether or not the ills of living out-weighs "flying to others that they know not of." I do not fear death, but I'm not at all enchanted with the thought of dying. Yet, I know it must be.

Personally, I think your post was a gift for the intended. Sometimes the words one needs to hear the most are the hardest for them to hear. The intended is judgmental and doesn't see it. It takes courage to speak the truth, how one hears the message, if they do is their call. This applies to the intended too. He probably is doing the best he knows how, would be my guess. 

 

My middle son is full of passion and zeal to help others and in listening to how he wanted to save the world, I told him one thing: which may help you too, or not,  it is your example that speaks the most, be the change you wish to effect and remember how you do or don't inspire another is not your call, or your place, let others tell you how you have helped them or not and how their experience has helped them. We can't speak on behalf of others or for others, only they can. 

There are those that do embrace their death and do so heroically, I have seen this too. 

Death is a personal thing to be dealt with as one sees fit. 

Feeling sorry for someone and extending compassion are two diffent things which Is what I have come to understand. 

I am  not an advocate of western Karma as understood. 

 

[The Narcisse]

On 8/11/2017 at 4:50 PM, Ozymandias said:

When was the last time God stuck his nose into human affairs? I do not mean interfering in one person's or a couple of people's life but did something that effected all humanity.

Why did he bother?

Why hasn't he bothered since?

Never?

[+Sherapy]

15 minutes ago, Mystic Crusader said:

Now you guy's know how we feel when a Christian calls one of us non-believers a Christian, or a child of "God".

Indeed, when my mother used to say I lacked value as a human being because I wasn't Christian well, it hurt deeply.

Her take on the Christian beliefs kept us from a relationship. 

It was tragic, and I am glad you brought this up. 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Personally, I think your post was a gift for the intended. Sometimes the words one needs to hear the most are the hardest for them to hear. The intended is judgmental and doesn't see it. It takes courage to speak the truth, how one hears the message, if they do is their call. This applies to the intended too. He probably is doing the best he knows how, would be my guess. 

 

My middle son is full of passion and zeal to help others and in listening to how he wanted to save the world, I told him one thing: which may help you too, or not,  it is your example that speaks the most, be the change you wish to effect and remember how you do or don't inspire another is not your call, or your place, let others tell you how you have helped them or not and how their experience has helped them. We can't speak on behalf of others or for others, only they can. 

There are those that do embrace their death and do so heroically, I have seen this too. 

Death is a personal thing to be dealt with as one sees fit. 

Feeling sorry for someone and extending compassion are two diffent things which Is what I have come to understand. 

I am  not an advocate of western Karma as understood. 

 

Karma and Fate are poetic concepts to me, beautiful, austere and serene. They imply powers beyond human perception, influencing, directing and controlling our lives, which, to me, are fanciful, romantical notions to be cherished as such.

[MauriOra]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Karma and Fate are poetic concepts to me, beautiful, austere and serene. They imply powers beyond human perception, influencing, directing and controlling our lives, which, to me, are fanciful, romantical notions to be cherished as such.

Whooo... What a Charmer...

 

[GoldenWolf]

[+Sherapy]

4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Karma and Fate are poetic concepts to me, beautiful, austere and serene. They imply powers beyond human perception, influencing, directing and controlling our lives, which, to me, are fanciful, romantical notions to be cherished as such.

There are definitely aspects of life we do not have control over, or a say, and the parts we can choose and influence...well if we are wise we will know what these areas are and make a point of it. There is just some aspects of life that are uncertain and not possible to account for are not always about us exclusively and often involve many factors where we are at the whim of "fate" and this is where faith comes up, in otherwords faith, for me, is pushing through the unknown, the uncertainty, the angst, the fearfulness, I connect to the faith that somewhere deep inside me resides what I need to succeed. I remind myself to look deep within to find the courage to trust in the wisdom of the moment and to push through when I want to quit, or to let go because I have become so arrogantly convinced  "my"way is the only highway and is the only answer, faith for me is the place I am willing to be wrong, willing to be humble, it is the door that opens and how I reconnect to hope once again. Karma, fate, serendipity, faith, magic, god all say the same thing to me. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

19 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Oh, you whited sepulcher, all fair without, but within? Full of dead men's bones and all manner of corruption. Many things you may be, but you are no holy man, so arrogant and stiff-necked with pride. I do not see you as Christian, at all, lacking the essential qualities to make one so. You lack humility but I prophesy unto you that the day is coming when you will be humbled beyond measure, you who think yourself so exalted, such a paragon of virtue you see yourself to be. You will become nothing more than dust upon the wind and no man will know your name.

 That is your perception and a faulty one I am  not considered prideful or arrogant by those who know me but rather quiet and  reserved.Apart  from the difference in our own values and what we see as  desirable traits,  i think that the way tha t i write which is unemotional and direct,  without a lot of "diplomacy",   might contribute to your perception. 

However i see no connection between your post and my comments on the verses you provided. If you have a difernt understanding or difference of opinion,  then outline it, rather than just making snide remarks.   

ps its hilarious that you see me in away that  I do not see myself  Humility is often  a disguise and a lie, and sometimes an excuse for never achieving much ,   and also misleading, as all people have  achievements in which they should take pride and should not be hidden.   One should be honest and direct in all things rather than hide behind fake fronts and pretence.

Holy man ??? ROFLMAO  that is the last thing i am, or want to be. Living the life i do is not holy or religious it is good common sense and contributes to a better life for me and my community It is based on the strong  secular humanist principles of my parents 

.  I will await the day of my humbling with great anticipation but because i am realistic in my assessment of myself and my place in my community  i cant foresee anything which might humble me I don't live any lives or practice any hypocrisies/ i dont have any hidden vices crimes or secrets which might be brought out to humble me. 

PAragon of virtue is almost a s funny a s holy man  i am a good honest man who cares for myself, those around me, humanity and the environment, and tries my hardest to help in all those things and to do no harm.

it is a sad day when a simple honest man is criticised for somehow being a "paragon of virtue" That simple honesty and kindness, is what each and every human should be; kind, loving, honest, and cooperative, making an effort to leave the world a better place and to improve themselves throughout their lives  .  What does that say for all those other ordinary men and women around him  if you see such a person as some form of paragon, rather than the norm. ?  

And who cares if i am remembered, if I know i've made the world a better place, saved lives, educated people, improved their living conditions and so on.

  its the ongoing results of a person's actions in their life, which are a person's legacy not their name. 

[Mr Walker]

7 hours ago, Sherapy said:

The point (for me) is Religion is man made influenced by popular demand; popular meaning different things depending on the distribution of power at various times in history. Now, with social media the power resides with the people, and fear by dogma is no longer gonna fly. 

The Catholics had to grow or eventually be extinct. I agree time will tell how it all pans out for them.

California was the first state to teach of the worlds religions as beliefs taken on faith, for two reasons one due to the incredible amount of diversity here and two as a reaction to 9/11, it was our collective response to the harmful effects of dogma, knowledge is power and there is no evidence for Gods of any  kind, we just don't know and have no way at this time to know of any gods, so if one aligns themselves with dogma, or advocates for a particular god, or claims exclusive knowledge for a god in the name of some apparition, or need, or tradition, or by way of personal relationship, etc. etc. they do so of their own accord and they do so on faith, period. 

And they say so, this is honesty, integrity and at the very least the intent to do no harm, and for me, Pope Francis is trying to move towards this. I too shall see what happens. 

 

 

America is a strange old place Govt schools in Australia have been teaching that religions are faith based since i was a child, at least,  and it s been illegal to teach any form of creationism  here for several decades in a govt school 

But part of your  post  is simply wrong and relies on the limited experiences of those who have never encountered gods 

Such peole claim that gods do not exist becsue the y have never met one, but many humans  KNOW they do because the y have encountered them in various forms  (it is just that you, and others like you,) do not BELIEVE this is possible 

There IS compelling evidence for the existence of entities we call gods  Some of us would be dead without the direct physical intervention of those entities,   and people can know of gods because they encounter them   

Thus it is legitimate for some people to claim knowledge of gods,  and tha t gods do exis,t because they have personal evidences for them 

If it was true tha t california adopted the   principle as you  outline it, then the state would be interfering in the right of individuals to  claim to  know god, by saying this was impossible and gods can only be accepted by faith. I don't believe your state has done that  It would breach the US constitution to start with. 

[+Hammerclaw]

2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

There are definitely aspects of life we do not have control over, or a say, and the parts we can choose and influence...well if we are wise we will know what these areas are and make a point of it. There is just some aspects of life that are uncertain and not possible to account for are not always about us exclusively and often involve many factors where we are at the whim of "fate" and this is where faith comes up, in otherwords faith, for me, is pushing through the unknown, the uncertainty, the angst, the fearfulness, I connect to the faith that somewhere deep inside me resides what I need to succeed. I remind myself to look deep within to find the courage to trust in the wisdom of the moment and to push through when I want to quit, or to let go because I have become so arrogantly convinced  "my"way is the only highway and is the only answer, faith for me is the place I am willing to be wrong, willing to be humble, it is the door that opens and how I reconnect to hope once again. Karma, fate, serendipity, faith, magic, god all say the same thing to me. 

Sounds pretty much like some thing I would write--only better.

[jmccr8]

36 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

 That is your perception and a faulty one I am  not considered prideful or arrogant by those who know me but rather quiet and  reserved.Apart  from the difference in our own values and what we see as  desirable traits,  i think that the way tha t i write which is unemotional and direct,  without a lot of "diplomacy",   might contribute to your perception. 

However i see no connection between your post and my comments on the verses you provided. If you have a difernt understanding or difference of opinion,  then outline it, rather than just making snide remarks.   

ps its hilarious that you see me in away that  I do not see myself  Humility is often  a disguise and a lie, and sometimes an excuse for never achieving much ,   and also misleading, as all people have  achievements in which they should take pride and should not be hidden.   One should be honest and direct in all things rather than hide behind fake fronts and pretence.

Holy man ??? ROFLMAO  that is the last thing i am, or want to be. Living the life i do is not holy or religious it is good common sense and contributes to a better life for me and my community It is based on the strong  secular humanist principles of my parents 

.  I will await the day of my humbling with great anticipation but because i am realistic in my assessment of myself and my place in my community  i cant foresee anything which might humble me I don't live any lives or practice any hypocrisies/ i dont have any hidden vices crimes or secrets which might be brought out to humble me. 

PAragon of virtue is almost a s funny a s holy man  i am a good honest man who cares for myself, those around me, humanity and the environment, and tries my hardest to help in all those things and to do no harm.

it is a sad day when a simple honest man is criticised for somehow being a "paragon of virtue" That simple honesty and kindness, is what each and every human should be; kind, loving, honest, and cooperative, making an effort to leave the world a better place and to improve themselves throughout their lives  .  What does that say for all those other ordinary men and women around him  if you see such a person as some form of paragon, rather than the norm. ?  

And who cares if i am remembered, if I know i've made the world a better place, saved lives, educated people, improved their living conditions and so on.

  its the ongoing results of a person's actions in their life, which are a person's legacy not their name. 

Will this is just an opinion but when someone writes in a tone of being a self-rightious pompas a-- ,and proclaims that they know it all, then the passages make a lot of sense to many others. But that is just an opinion.

jmccr8

Edited December 15, 2017 by jmccr8
Little buttons fat fingers

[+Hammerclaw]

22 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

 That is your perception and a faulty one I am  not considered prideful or arrogant by those who know me but rather quiet and  reserved.Apart  from the difference in our own values and what we see as  desirable traits,  i think that the way tha t i write which is unemotional and direct,  without a lot of "diplomacy",   might contribute to your perception. 

However i see no connection between your post and my comments on the verses you provided. If you have a difernt understanding or difference of opinion,  then outline it, rather than just making snide remarks.   

ps its hilarious that you see me in away that  I do not see myself  Humility is often  a disguise and a lie, and sometimes an excuse for never achieving much ,   and also misleading, as all people have  achievements in which they should take pride and should not be hidden.   One should be honest and direct in all things rather than hide behind fake fronts and pretence.

Holy man ??? ROFLMAO  that is the last thing i am, or want to be. Living the life i do is not holy or religious it is good common sense and contributes to a better life for me and my community It is based on the strong  secular humanist principles of my parents 

.  I will await the day of my humbling with great anticipation but because i am realistic in my assessment of myself and my place in my community  i cant foresee anything which might humble me I don't live any lives or practice any hypocrisies/ i dont have any hidden vices crimes or secrets which might be brought out to humble me. 

PAragon of virtue is almost a s funny a s holy man  i am a good honest man who cares for myself, those around me, humanity and the environment, and tries my hardest to help in all those things and to do no harm.

it is a sad day when a simple honest man is criticised for somehow being a "paragon of virtue" That simple honesty and kindness, is what each and every human should be; kind, loving, honest, and cooperative, making an effort to leave the world a better place and to improve themselves throughout their lives  .  What does that say for all those other ordinary men and women around him  if you see such a person as some form of paragon, rather than the norm. ?  

And who cares if i am remembered, if I know i've made the world a better place, saved lives, educated people, improved their living conditions and so on.

  its the ongoing results of a person's actions in their life, which are a person's legacy not their name. 

You can't even defend yourself against charges of arrogance and vanity without being arrogant and vain. Words of self-praise are a bubbling effervescence spewing unremittedly from your lips. You show nothing but disdain for the thoughts and beliefs of others and then are bewildered when they show equal contempt for your own. Never was there a human being more high on themselves than you. You sir are a piece of work. 

[jmccr8]

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

America is a strange old place Govt schools in Australia have been teaching that religions are faith based since i was a child, at least,  and it s been illegal to teach any form of creationism  here for several decades in a govt school 

But part of your  post  is simply wrong and relies on the limited experiences of those who have never encountered gods 

Such peole claim that gods do not exist becsue the y have never met one, but many humans  KNOW they do because the y have encountered them in various forms  (it is just that you, and others like you,) do not BELIEVE this is possible 

There IS compelling evidence for the existence of entities we call gods  Some of us would be dead without the direct physical intervention of those entities,   and people can know of gods because they encounter them   

Thus it is legitimate for some people to claim knowledge of gods,  and tha t gods do exis,t because they have personal evidences for them 

If it was true tha t california adopted the   principle as you  outline it, then the state would be interfering in the right of individuals to  claim to  know god, by saying this was impossible and gods can only be accepted by faith. I don't believe your state has done that  It would breach the US constitution to start with. 

 Thank you for expressing an opinion.

jmccr8

[+Sherapy]

3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

America is a strange old place Govt schools in Australia have been teaching that religions are faith based since i was a child, at least,  and it s been illegal to teach any form of creationism  here for several decades in a govt school 

But part of your  post  is simply wrong and relies on the limited experiences of those who have never encountered gods 

Such peole claim that gods do not exist becsue the y have never met one, but many humans  KNOW they do because the y have encountered them in various forms  (it is just that you, and others like you,) do not BELIEVE this is possible 

There IS compelling evidence for the existence of entities we call gods  Some of us would be dead without the direct physical intervention of those entities,   and people can know of gods because they encounter them   

Thus it is legitimate for some people to claim knowledge of gods,  and tha t gods do exis,t because they have personal evidences for them 

If it was true tha t california adopted the   principle as you  outline it, then the state would be interfering in the right of individuals to  claim to  know god, by saying this was impossible and gods can only be accepted by faith. I don't believe your state has done that  It would breach the US constitution to start with. 

MW, I think you believe you have a personal relationship with god. It seems to work for you, it seems you cherish this friendship. It really doesn’t matter what I think. Stop defending your right to believe in god and define god how you choose.

I observe you are deeply conditioned in your belief and this is the life you know and have choosen and it has worked out for you. 

I can appreciate that you feel you wouldn’t be alive with out your god; I am glad you had a way to get through the trials in your life. I am glad you have found happiness.

God bless you. 

 

[+Sherapy]

18 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sounds pretty much like some thing I would write--only better.

Awww, thank you kind sir. No one writes as good as you.

[+Hammerclaw]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

MW, I think you believe you have a personal relationship with god. It seems to work for you, it seems you cherish this friendship. It really doesn’t matter what I think. Stop defending your right to believe in god and define god how you choose.

I observe you are deeply conditioned in your belief and this is the life you know and have choosen and it has worked out for you. 

I can appreciate that you feel you wouldn’t be alive with out your god; I am glad you had a way to get through the trials in your life. I am glad you have found happiness.

God bless you. 

 

That's very gracious of you--as always, As for myself, my stock of Christian charity is in short supply.

[+Sherapy]

47 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

 That is your perception and a faulty one I am  not considered prideful or arrogant by those who know me but rather quiet and  reserved.Apart  from the difference in our own values and what we see as  desirable traits,  i think that the way tha t i write which is unemotional and direct,  without a lot of "diplomacy",   might contribute to your perception. 

However i see no connection between your post and my comments on the verses you provided. If you have a difernt understanding or difference of opinion,  then outline it, rather than just making snide remarks.   

ps its hilarious that you see me in away that  I do not see myself  Humility is often  a disguise and a lie, and sometimes an excuse for never achieving much ,   and also misleading, as all people have  achievements in which they should take pride and should not be hidden.   One should be honest and direct in all things rather than hide behind fake fronts and pretence.

Holy man ??? ROFLMAO  that is the last thing i am, or want to be. Living the life i do is not holy or religious it is good common sense and contributes to a better life for me and my community It is based on the strong  secular humanist principles of my parents 

.  I will await the day of my humbling with great anticipation but because i am realistic in my assessment of myself and my place in my community  i cant foresee anything which might humble me I don't live any lives or practice any hypocrisies/ i dont have any hidden vices crimes or secrets which might be brought out to humble me. 

PAragon of virtue is almost a s funny a s holy man  i am a good honest man who cares for myself, those around me, humanity and the environment, and tries my hardest to help in all those things and to do no harm.

it is a sad day when a simple honest man is criticised for somehow being a "paragon of virtue" That simple honesty and kindness, is what each and every human should be; kind, loving, honest, and cooperative, making an effort to leave the world a better place and to improve themselves throughout their lives  .  What does that say for all those other ordinary men and women around him  if you see such a person as some form of paragon, rather than the norm. ?  

And who cares if i am remembered, if I know i've made the world a better place, saved lives, educated people, improved their living conditions and so on.

  its the ongoing results of a person's actions in their life, which are a person's legacy not their name. 

Hammer is just saying that these wonderful qualities you claim do not come across online. And, we would like to know this man too.

What comes across is arrogance and vanity, condescending and holier then thou persona. 

Are you aware you come across as this?

 

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Hammer is just saying that these wonderful qualities you claim do not come across online. And, we would like to know this man too.

What comes across is arrogance and vanity, condescending and holier then thou persona. 

Are you aware you come across as this?

 

When you wear a mask long enough, you forget the person behind it.

[+Hammerclaw]

6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Hammer is just saying that these wonderful qualities you claim do not come across online. And, we would like to know this man too.

What comes across is arrogance and vanity, condescending and holier then thou persona. 

Are you aware you come across as this?

 

Like a Royal Representative to a Crown Colony pretty much sums it up. 

[+Sherapy]

10 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Like a Royal Representative to a Crown Colony pretty much sums it up. 

The thing MW misses is you genuinely see good in him, respect things about him and speak on that too. Don’t ever say you are not a Christian just because you say what needs to be said. 

I know you are trying to help him, this is also Christian charity.

J., was belittled and put down for giving his opinion and told he was not worthy of speaking on behalf of Christians. 

It was not the kind, quiet, sweet, diplomatic MW. Sheesh.

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

When you wear a mask long enough, you forget the person behind it.

So true, so so so true.