+Hammerclaw Posted December 16, 2017 #676 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: And that i think, is the problem No one likes being told their behaviours cause hurt or harm, yet every person has a responsibility to do exactly that IF the hurt and harm is real. We have to learn to do what is right and necessary to combat harm, rather than remain silent or be complicit, just to keep the peace, or remain popular. I am responsible for the INTENT of my words but cannot be responsible for how others perceive them, as i cannot know or understand how another will feel or react . One can do nothing else but innocently express an honest opinion ie a truth, but one must not express a truth DESIGNED to hurt or harm. AND yet , one must express it, even knowing it will cause hurt or harm, if it Is necessary to prevent a greater or more physical harm. So, if it does harm--it's the bullet's fault--you just pulled the trigger. So, this is your excuse for running off at the mouth without considering the impact and consequences of your words. Unacceptable. Whatever lessons you learned in life, conversational etiquette wasn't high on the list if on it at all. You feel you have the right to judge and comment on people's lives? Fine. They have an equal right to do the same regarding you. Make no mistake, if you wrong them, innocently or not, they shall revenge. You'll just have to reap what you sow, like everyone else. There's absolutely nothing special about you. Edited December 16, 2017 by Hammerclaw 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted December 16, 2017 #677 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) On 14/12/2017 at 0:54 AM, Mr Walker said: I would agree, except that you have many catholic people calling the changes heresies while they are supported by an atheist reporter . i will wait and see how it evolves over the next 50 -`100 years before passing judgement I find it ironic and amusing that the current pope has abandoned 2000 years of catholic dogma, and gone back to the biblical truths. I must commend him for that. Bishops and Deacons of the Catholic Church have become dry canals. More concerned with earthly possessions and material gains than spiritual liberation. I'm afraid that Pope Francis, for all his good intentions has a lot of waking up to do. Edited December 16, 2017 by TruthSeeker_ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 16, 2017 #678 Share Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, TruthSeeker_ said: Bishops and Deacons of the Catholic Church have become dry canals. More concerned with earthly possessions and material gains and libation. I'm afraid that Pope Francis, for all his good intentions has a lot of waking up to do. There fixed that for you. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 16, 2017 #679 Share Posted December 16, 2017 4 hours ago, MauriOra said: Awww, not even, chocolate... Lol No thank you ... cocoa please ... ~ 4 hours ago, MauriOra said: How bout a pitch fork.. I have an assortment of colours to suit ya...? Interested?? Lol.. No thank you. I'm off duty now ... ~ 4 hours ago, MauriOra said: You are a Master of words, I love it... Oh good heavens no ... heavens forbid I've just been around the block more times than many believes ... THe CHinese has that adage ... 'Old hand' ... yeah ... better ~ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted December 16, 2017 #680 Share Posted December 16, 2017 27 minutes ago, third_eye said: No thank you ... cocoa please ... ~ No thank you. I'm off duty now ... ~ Oh good heavens no ... heavens forbid I've just been around the block more times than many believes ... THe CHinese has that adage ... 'Old hand' ... yeah ... better ~ Off duty? What do you do? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 16, 2017 #681 Share Posted December 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Sherapy said: Off duty? What do you do? I was just being cheeky ... What I really do (for now) is help run a banana / papaya grove ... harvesting, processing and such ... ~ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted December 16, 2017 #682 Share Posted December 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, third_eye said: I was just being cheeky ... What I really do (for now) is help run a banana / papaya grove ... harvesting, processing and such ... ~ Awesome! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 16, 2017 #683 Share Posted December 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sherapy said: Awesome! Oh no ... if you were to be here you would feel totally and entirely differently ... THere is something that has to be said about four to five tonnes of bananas all stacked up but so far it has escaped me, even now ... ~ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 16, 2017 #684 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said: So, if it does harm--it's the bullet's fault--you just pulled the trigger. So, this is your excuse for running off at the mouth without considering the impact and consequences of your words. Unacceptable. Whatever lessons you learned in life, conversational etiquette wasn't high on the list if on it at all. You feel you have the right to judge and comment on people's lives? Fine. They have an equal right to do the same regarding you. Make no mistake, if you wrong them, innocently or not, they shall revenge. You'll just have to reap what you sow, like everyone else. There's absolutely nothing special about you. That is a flawed analogy A person must do that which is right and ethical or moral, and which will produced the best physical results for the most people Humans have the capacity to know what things will cause physical harm and which will not . However the EFFECTS on people of words etc depends entirely on how that person takes or perceives the words And one cannot be responsible for the effects, only for the intent. So if i tell my wife she is gaining weight, and needs to exercise, and have the intent of helping her by improving her health and fitness, it is not my fault if she takes it as an insult and thinks it was a criticism Suppose i said nothing and she continues to put on weight and eventually has cardio problems resulting in a stroke or heart attack Then I AM responsible because i could foresee that as as a likely result and did nothing to prevent it I don't speak without consideration, which might, in your eyes, make my words even worse. I speak truths which will help people i can do no more than this ie i cant compel them into safer behaviours but equally I cant be held responsible for how the y respond to truths Indeed i MUST not be silenced by consideration of their feelings IF being silent would do more harm. Absolutely i have a right and a duty to point out to people when they harm themselves and others More than that, i have a duty to do so. And more than that in extremes i have a duty and responsibility to physically STOP them putting themselves or others a t risk by their behaviours So if i know a man is beating his wife the i MUST take action to stop this If i know a woman is too drunk to drive i MUST stop her form doing so The only question /dilemma is how to do these things legally and safely. You have the same right and duty, but if you chose not to use it, you are abrogating your responsibly perhaps for peace of mind or convenience And you must bear the responsibility when your failure to warn or to act results in harm. And not only would i expect, i would demand, that i be prevented from harming others If i were likely to harm another i would present myself to the police to be taken into custody. I have spent my life learning to be in control of my behaviours so that i will NEVER hurt another person through loss of control. If someone knew i was, for example, eating or drinking something which would harm me i would expect them to tell me and I'd be very annoyed if they failed to do so, resulting in harm to me, over time. Revenge is stupid and a non productive emotional response No one has ever sought revenge on me for anything because i don't treat people badly. I would avoid attempts at revenge either through intelligent responses or preparedness. I reap what ti sow every day, and thus my life is good, because i sow only good You are half right. I actually learned formal etiquette and good behaviour, but I also learned that certain ethics, moralities, and practicalities, outweigh such etiquette. Neither my parents, nor my wife have any tolerance for lies, half truths, prevarications, or answers so tactful they serve no purpose, or even mislead. Edited December 16, 2017 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 16, 2017 #685 Share Posted December 16, 2017 2 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Do not pretend that you do not speak with malice we have spoken to you many times about your veiled slurs. You feign innocence and make much ado about you and how others are your inferiors and speak out only to discredit you. jmccr9 I dont speak with malice i don't think in malicious or hurtful terms. I am sometimes blunt and forthright but i don't have a malicious bone in my body. It is the malice fear hate or envy in others which causes them to assume malice in me And when have i EVER called others my inferiors. No humans are inferior to me and no humans are superior to me. Each of us are unique individuals with different skills and talents. Some make more use of their skills and talents but basically we are all identical. When you see what you perceive as a 'veiled slur" please call me out on it immediately, and i will look at how or why you might see it that way . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 16, 2017 #686 Share Posted December 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Sherapy said: MW, you are off topic, inappropriate and trolling. PM is for personal beefs and vendettas you have. That was a direct repose to a post from hammer claw. I am happy to let the mods decide who started it, and to take appropriate action. Indeed i would like to see them more pro active with such personal commentary, which i think is offensive and inappropriate as well as time wasting, a lot more often, but i wont be shut up by you or anyone else who makes it personal, and then expects that to silence me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted December 16, 2017 #687 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, jmccr8 said: What about the times you had it out with students was that you being a loving and controlled disciplinairian? jmccr8 Go back and read those accounts. I have been physically attacked only once while teaching, and i defended myself. After having my ribs cracked by a punch to the chest i took hold of the students in a defensive grip which was very painful and immobilising, but would not damage him. I then put my face up to his and said, very quietly and calmly " I am going to let you go. You will leave the room. If you hit me again, I will knock your head off your shoulders" He replied, " You would lose your job " I just grinned and replied, "look me in my eyes. Do I look as if i care?" He left. His mother wanted me disciplined but i said i was happy with that as it would allow me to take him to court and press charges of assault. Given the bruising and confirmed damage to my ribs, the outcome was clear to everyone, and mum backed down This kid had been throwing metal pieces into a metal fan and had them ricocheting all over a packed class room When i told him to stop, he told me to "F...off" and then asked me to make him stop if i could . I was threatened a few times and made it clear that any threat would be met with massive retaliation. I NEVER start a fight, but i don't like being hurt, so i will end one as quickly as possible. Apart from when i was a student my self, and was forced into fighting two bigger and older boys, the only time i have got involved in fights with students was to physically step in between the combatants, and thus cause them to stop hurting each other. I received one long term injury from being struck on the neck, but prevented serious harm to students in a number of cases. In EVERY case my presence between those fighting stopped the fight almost immediately (most teenagers dont REALLY want to be fighting each other, and just need an excuse to stop) and when i was hurt it was accidental and the student was very apologetic And in every case i was totally in control of my emotion.s I was neither afraid nor angry, but calm and thinking .I was thinking, planning strategising and predicting This is the best way to end a fight as quickly as possible, with the minimum of long term harm What was the point of this question again ? Any way, yup! I reckon, absolutely, i have been a loving and VERY controlled disciplinarian Several people told me i should not have placed myself between the fighting students when i did, and just let them fight My response was that it was my duty and responsibility to protect them and stop them hurting each other and this was a stronger imperative than self protection I spent 3 winters with a lot of headaches neck pain, and almost total immobility in my neck, from even the smallest cold breeze, due to damage to the neck, but eventually it recovered. i did this because i LOVED those kids and didn't want them hurt and if i hadn't loved them i wouldn't have acted quite as readily. Duty and responsibility are acts of love and care. Edited December 16, 2017 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted December 16, 2017 #688 Share Posted December 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Sherapy said: MW, you are off topic, inappropriate and trolling. How does that differ from most of the last ten pages or so of this thread which, while potentially interesting, you have to skim through pages and pages of irrelevant bickering and squabbling and people piling up on one particular poster to get to any matter of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted December 16, 2017 #689 Share Posted December 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said: How does that differ from most of the last ten pages or so of this thread which, while potentially interesting, you have to skim through pages and pages of irrelevant bickering and squabbling and people piling up on one particular poster to get to any matter of interest? God? Is that you? Have you come to get the thread back on topic? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriOra Posted December 16, 2017 #690 Share Posted December 16, 2017 9 hours ago, third_eye said: No thank you ... cocoa please ... ~ No thank you. I'm off duty now ... ~ Oh good heavens no ... heavens forbid I've just been around the block more times than many believes ... THe CHinese has that adage ... 'Old hand' ... yeah ... better ~ And the Maori my bro... We got the ad age too . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted December 16, 2017 #691 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Mr Walker said: That is a flawed analogy A person must do that which is right and ethical or moral, and which will produced the best physical results for the most people Humans have the capacity to know what things will cause physical harm and which will not . However the EFFECTS on people of words etc depends entirely on how that person takes or perceives the words And one cannot be responsible for the effects, only for the intent. So if i tell my wife she is gaining weight, and needs to exercise, and have the intent of helping her by improving her health and fitness, it is not my fault if she takes it as an insult and thinks it was a criticism Suppose i said nothing and she continues to put on weight and eventually has cardio problems resulting in a stroke or heart attack Then I AM responsible because i could foresee that as as a likely result and did nothing to prevent it I don't speak without consideration, which might, in your eyes, make my words even worse. I speak truths which will help people i can do no more than this ie i cant compel them into safer behaviours but equally I cant be held responsible for how the y respond to truths Indeed i MUST not be silenced by consideration of their feelings IF being silent would do more harm. Absolutely i have a right and a duty to point out to people when they harm themselves and others More than that, i have a duty to do so. And more than that in extremes i have a duty and responsibility to physically STOP them putting themselves or others a t risk by their behaviours So if i know a man is beating his wife the i MUST take action to stop this If i know a woman is too drunk to drive i MUST stop her form doing so The only question /dilemma is how to do these things legally and safely. You have the same right and duty, but if you chose not to use it, you are abrogating your responsibly perhaps for peace of mind or convenience And you must bear the responsibility when your failure to warn or to act results in harm. And not only would i expect, i would demand, that i be prevented from harming others If i were likely to harm another i would present myself to the police to be taken into custody. I have spent my life learning to be in control of my behaviours so that i will NEVER hurt another person through loss of control. If someone knew i was, for example, eating or drinking something which would harm me i would expect them to tell me and I'd be very annoyed if they failed to do so, resulting in harm to me, over time. Revenge is stupid and a non productive emotional response No one has ever sought revenge on me for anything because i don't treat people badly. I would avoid attempts at revenge either through intelligent responses or preparedness. I reap what ti sow every day, and thus my life is good, because i sow only good You are half right. I actually learned formal etiquette and good behaviour, but I also learned that certain ethics, moralities, and practicalities, outweigh such etiquette. Neither my parents, nor my wife have any tolerance for lies, half truths, prevarications, or answers so tactful they serve no purpose, or even mislead. For me: you do not understand the scope of do no harm. If you tell your wife she is overweight and needs to lose weight it doesn't matter if your intent is for her own good, She will not see it this way and you ( general) will be seen as the holier than thou jerk you are not "intending" to be. You ( general) do not have the right to tell adults what is best for them, natural consequences will or won't speak to them, that is their right like it or not. Look on the bright side: It can be an opportunity for you ( general) to grow beyond being so judgmental. Edited December 16, 2017 by Sherapy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted December 16, 2017 #692 Share Posted December 16, 2017 8 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said: pages and pages of irrelevant bickering and squabbling and people piling up on one particular poster ^^ I think this pretty sums up why there is little point in keeping this thread going. Members are reminded, yet again, not to make things personal - either use the 'ignore' feature or hit the 'report' button if there's a problem. Closed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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