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nephili

Can science prove or disprove "God"?

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Posted (edited)

Is there a branch of science that could prove or disprove "God" beyond speculation? Could a type of technology detect or measure "God"? Is there any proof or otherwise of "God"? Anything at all that is beyond just speculative belief or disbelief?

I personally believe if "God" exists, science and technology will be able to prove or disprove it.

Opinions please.

Edited by nephili
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Posted (edited)

Pretty sure this has been done to death here, and the answer is an overwhelming 'no'.

The big ticket answers are usually: Well, science could prove god exists if his presence was measurable and repeatable, but it obviously isn't. Believers say science doesn't necessarily even apply to god, much like ghosts etc. And science can't prove god doesn't exist, because again, there's nothing to measure or attempt to repeat. 

God is much like Bigfoot, no real evidence, but there are always those who need to believe for whatever reason.

Edited by Timonthy
Changed a word. :D
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11 minutes ago, nephili said:

Is there a branch of science that could prove or disprove "God" beyond speculation? Could a type of technology detect or measure "God"? Is there any proof or otherwise of "God"? Anything at all that is beyond just speculative belief or disbelief?

I personally believe if "God" exists, science and technology will be able to prove or disprove it.

Opinions please.

First we'd need a working definition of god, because there isn't one. 

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It will always be impossible to 'prove' the existence of spiritual things with material tools.

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Timonthy said:

Pretty sure this has been done to death here, and the answer is an overwhelming 'no'.

The big ticket answers are usually: Well, science could prove god exists if his presence was measurable and repeatable, but it obviously isn't. Believers say science doesn't necessarily even apply to god, much like ghosts etc. And science can't prove god doesn't exist, because again, there's nothing to measure or attempt to repeat. 

God is much like Bigfoot, no real evidence, but there are always those who need to believe for whatever reason.

If something such as time travel were invented, couldn't you just go back and affirm something like Moses on the mountain with the burning bush or Jesus walking on water? If we actually saw these events happen or just not happen at all, it should instantly prove or disprove at least biblical descriptions.

I just see no reason why science couldn't pass superstition to end all doubt.

Edited by nephili
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1 minute ago, nephili said:

If something such as time travel were invented, couldn't you just go back and affirm something like Moses on the mountain with the burning bush or Jesus walking on water? If we actually saw these events happen or just not happen at all, it should instantly prove or disprove at least biblical descriptions.

I just see no reason why science couldn't pass superstition to end all doubt.

Do you think you could travel to the zero point in space time? Where time didn't exist, right before the big bang? That would be the point you'd really need to go. To the point where it all started. And we also have another problem. What if Moses didn't exist?

 

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, nephili said:

If something such as time travel were invented, couldn't you just go back and affirm something like Moses on the mountain with the burning bush or Jesus walking on water? If we actually saw these events happen or just not happen at all, it should instantly prove or disprove at least biblical descriptions.

I just see no reason why science couldn't pass superstition to end all doubt.

Even if you time traveled, god would still be some fluff in he sky. 

I'm sure if he presented himself then he could help us with the sciencey stuff, but do you think that will ever happen?

Edited by Timonthy
Typo

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8 minutes ago, simplybill said:

It will always be impossible to 'prove' the existence of spiritual things with material tools.

Such a convenient argument, as always. 

Bravo sir! All hats off to you.

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

And we also have another problem. What if Moses didn't exist?

 

And finding out Moses didn't exist, doesn't that disprove it all? Every religion based on that event would be exposed as completely wrong from the very beginning and have to pack up and call it quits because the whole thing was just fiction.

Or finding out it did happen, just like the old testament says, would that not prove it all?

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Just now, nephili said:

And finding out Moses didn't exist, doesn't that disprove it all? Every religion based on that event would be exposed as completely wrong from the very beginning and have to pack up and call it quits because the whole thing was just fiction.

Or finding out it did happen, just like the old testament says, would that not prove it all?

Depends on who goes back in time, a believer or non-believer. I Moses can not be found who is to say that the believer might take up the role and create the myth. If a non-believer when back and found that Moses didn't exist or that Jesus was actually a Grecian philosopher. Still even if Moses was found what would the real events actually look like? You the time travel might be "god" to them? You came from nowhere, you have advanced technology that looks like magick. It's the same issue as giving Nintendo the blueprints for the super NES before the original nes was ever created, putting them ahead of the game. That's the problem with time travel. 

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If we advanced in brain scan technology to evaluate people who claim communication with "God" to first of detect lying or insanity and second detect outside forces.

We should be able to examine prayer healing, souls exiting a body and things like speaking in tongues very easily. These are held as modern proofs of "God".

It should be simple to determine modern miraculous things with quite simple technology applied correctly.

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2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You the time travel might be "god" to them? You came from nowhere, you have advanced technology that looks like magick.

Now that is a freaking interesting thought.

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4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Depends on who goes back in time, a believer or non-believer.

It in my opinion would be someone sent to collect evidence. Cloaked to not interfere and film and audio surveillance to prevent any doubt.

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Just now, nephili said:

Now that is a freaking interesting thought.

Hang around me long enough and you'll see more interesting thoughts than that.

2 minutes ago, nephili said:

If we advanced in brain scan technology to evaluate people who claim communication with "God" to first of detect lying or insanity and second detect outside forces.

We should be able to examine prayer healing, souls exiting a body and things like speaking in tongues very easily. These are held as modern proofs of "God".

It should be simple to determine modern miraculous things with quite simple technology applied correctly.

So let's say that we do develop this technology. We still have no idea nor definition of god. Every religion defines god differently. Faith healing is really nothing more than a placebo effect that will never replace actually medical treatment. The soul has yet to be discover, it may or may not even exist. Speaking in tongues? I thought that was only for drunk people. 

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1 minute ago, nephili said:

It in my opinion would be someone sent to collect evidence. Cloaked to not interfere and film and audio surveillance to prevent any doubt.

So with the ability to travel in time it would be wasted on proving/disproving the existence of one god from one religion? I could think of a better use for time travel. Like compressing light years to minutes. Making mass colonization possible, but that me. Head up, eyes forward, onto to the next. 

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2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

So with the ability to travel in time it would be wasted on proving/disproving the existence of one god from one religion? I could think of a better use for time travel. Like compressing light years to minutes. Making mass colonization possible, but that me. Head up, eyes forward, onto to the next. 

There is a huge percent of the world who bases their belief on a few common events from the old testament. How much of the world's population is Jewish, Christian or Muslim? That is more than just one religion. I bet it's at least half of the world.

Wouldn't a great first step forward be to put everyone in the same belief system and to eliminate that once and for all? End all doubt. That's just me.

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1 minute ago, nephili said:

There is a huge percent of the world who bases their belief on a few common events from the old testament. How much of the world's population is Jewish, Christian or Muslim? That is more than just one religion. I bet it's at least half of the world.

Wouldn't a great first step forward be to put everyone in the same belief system and to eliminate that once and for all? End all doubt. That's just me.

Even if it was proven/disproven I doubt people would change, they'd claim something. People are addicted to spiritual beliefs regardless of how true they are. From a scientific point of view it would be worth it academically. Hell, all of history could be rewritten in a more factual manner. And if time travel was physically possible in the near future, we could do so much more with it. Time would literally be our plaything. 

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Posted (edited)

23 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

 

We still have no idea nor definition of god

Planets were detected by their effect on other planets long before we could actually see them. Merely just on their gravitational pull. They didn't need a definition to detect them, just their effects.

 

23 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

 

Faith healing is really nothing more than a placebo effect that will never replace actually medical treatment.

That should be easily proved then. I know a few people cured of some terrible things by what they claim was faith healing.

23 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The soul has yet to be discover, it may or may not even exist. 

If we can detect dark matter in the universe we should be able to detect a soul right in front of us. If it's real of course.

 

23 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

 

Speaking in tongues? I thought that was only for drunk people. 

And the Pentecostal :)

But I more mean anyone claiming they are speaking for "God".

Edited by nephili

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No on both counts. 

It's not something that's testable. And as for the disproving, no one can prove a universal negative. Science can't even prove that the Invisible Pink Unicorn doesn't exist. All it can say is there's no evidence of it. 

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How do you disprove the unprovable? There is no empirical scientific evidence proving or disproving the existence of God. That's why a religion is called a faith.

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2 hours ago, nephili said:

Opinions please.

Can science prove or disprove "God"?       

First you would need a definition of God that is testable by science. So, I am going with the 'No' answer at this time. Maybe science of the future will be able to confirm my definition of God/Brahman which is the One consciousness that is the only fundamental constituent of existence.

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''The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.''

-H.P. Lovecraft

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If an invisible man that you can't detect with your senses ran through a room knocking things off tables and shelves, wouldn't you be able to detect this invisible man by the effect of the things he knocks down?

Regardless of the definition or literal description of this invisible man, you should be able to detect and predict certain things about him just by the acts he does. I see no difference with "God". If there is anything at all, it would be detectable.

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12 hours ago, nephili said:

Is there a branch of science that could prove or disprove "God" beyond speculation? Could a type of technology detect or measure "God"? Is there any proof or otherwise of "God"? Anything at all that is beyond just speculative belief or disbelief?

I personally believe if "God" exists, science and technology will be able to prove or disprove it.

Opinions please.

As others have said, I think I remember this particular subject has been done here before. Well, actually I feel, close to what you're asking has been done. For me, I think before, it seems like there was an agenda behind it. I don't feel that with you. I think this is the first time this has been asked unconditionally. 

And I do wonder about how science can prove spiritual things. And I wonder, if God can be proven, is God still God? Or, would my higher power would still be a higher power? 

Actually, and this is my crazy mind reflecting on this, I feel God wouldn't be God anymore, but my higher power would still be a higher power. I guess, it's probably how I look at each, the labels, and feel how it's logically thought of. 

11 hours ago, XenoFish said:

First we'd need a working definition of god, because there isn't one. 

I think this is a very good point. If we're to believe something is to be proven, you have to have a something to compare it too, in the sense that you can actually investigate it to compare it to. 

11 hours ago, simplybill said:

It will always be impossible to 'prove' the existence of spiritual things with material tools.

And I feel, this makes logical sense too. And that's if, we keep to seeing it as spiritual and immeasurable. As some have pointed out, it wouldn't be faith if you didn't believe. Like I wondered, if God is measured, would that take away the god label. 

11 hours ago, nephili said:

If something such as time travel were invented, couldn't you just go back and affirm something like Moses on the mountain with the burning bush or Jesus walking on water? If we actually saw these events happen or just not happen at all, it should instantly prove or disprove at least biblical descriptions.

I just see no reason why science couldn't pass superstition to end all doubt.

Here's the thing I see with this thought. Time travel is also in the point of view of not really existing, so I wonder, if this would actually works.

11 hours ago, nephili said:

And finding out Moses didn't exist, doesn't that disprove it all? Every religion based on that event would be exposed as completely wrong from the very beginning and have to pack up and call it quits because the whole thing was just fiction.

Or finding out it did happen, just like the old testament says, would that not prove it all?

I wonder though, if a believer was able to time travel, thinking they can go back to prove it, what happens when they travel back and found it to be false? 

11 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Depends on who goes back in time, a believer or non-believer. I Moses can not be found who is to say that the believer might take up the role and create the myth. If a non-believer when back and found that Moses didn't exist or that Jesus was actually a Grecian philosopher. Still even if Moses was found what would the real events actually look like? You the time travel might be "god" to them? You came from nowhere, you have advanced technology that looks like magick. It's the same issue as giving Nintendo the blueprints for the super NES before the original nes was ever created, putting them ahead of the game. That's the problem with time travel. 

I feel these are good points to. 

Here's another thing, the paradox. What if someone went back in time, was able to  prove it, and then changed things to allow more people to consider him as real, then what happens to the future? Would it change to show something else, including how people see him and how they are called? Wouldn't the future change to have a new set of point of views? 

11 hours ago, nephili said:
11 hours ago, XenoFish said:

So with the ability to travel in time it would be wasted on proving/disproving the existence of one god from one religion? I could think of a better use for time travel. Like compressing light years to minutes. Making mass colonization possible, but that me. Head up, eyes forward, onto to the next. 

There is a huge percent of the world who bases their belief on a few common events from the old testament. How much of the world's population is Jewish, Christian or Muslim? That is more than just one religion. I bet it's at least half of the world.

Wouldn't a great first step forward be to put everyone in the same belief system and to eliminate that once and for all? End all doubt. That's just me.

Well, then we have a new future or present set of time, and then something else would be seen as myth and than that question would be asked of something else be proven by time travel. 

 

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Even if god is proven. Who is to say that it will be anything like the god of the bible? That god in my opinion is a psychological construct. The term god might not even apply to the first cause, the very thing that made our existence possible. Another problem is the eternal god idea, if something exist outside of space-time it will have no causal effect on our reality. So it basically does nothing. 

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