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The Russian Hare

North Korea defector interview Sky News

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http://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-defector-we-follow-kim-jong-un-because-were-scared-10987784

Quote

A defector from North Korea has told Sky News support for the leader is significantly weaker than portrayed by the regime.

He said, despite the televised images of mass public adulation of Kim Jong Un, displays of loyalty are coerced through fear.

The man asked Sky News to hide his identity because his daughter is still inside North Korea, and would be in danger if he is recognised, but he wanted people to know the truth about life under the Kim regime.

He said living conditions had become harder, and privately many people were critical of his leadership, but nobody dared express those views in public.

"If you criticise Kim Jong Un you will go to a prison camp and not come back," he said.

Summary: information about outside world increasing but regime control still strong; everyone knows how much their life sucks relative to the world; most military member's life sucks as well; better to die than end up in prison camp; 

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If only Kim Jong Un could be surgically removed from power, preferably from within.

North Korea would likely change dramatically overnight. If he has any genuine support around him that isn't exclusively gained from fear, I'd imagine it's minimal, and would be easily overthrown.

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Just now, The Russian Hare said:

http://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-defector-we-follow-kim-jong-un-because-were-scared-10987784

Summary: information about outside world increasing but regime control still strong; everyone knows how much their life sucks relative to the world; most military member's life sucks as well; better to die than end up in prison camp; 

UGGG im so damn torn on the NK issue. On the one hand theyre clearly an f'd up nation. On the other however this is eerily reminiscent of the build up to the iraq war and I dont trust anyone. 

Not to mention im not even sold on the fact that fat Kim isnt right to keep arming himself. We have a litany of examples of nations who weakened their positions to appease western powers only to end up "freedomed" anyways. 

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2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

UGGG im so damn torn on the NK issue. On the one hand theyre clearly an f'd up nation. On the other however this is eerily reminiscent of the build up to the iraq war and I dont trust anyone. 

Not to mention im not even sold on the fact that fat Kim isnt right to keep arming himself. We have a litany of examples of nations who weakened their positions to appease western powers only to end up "freedomed" anyways. 

Wasn't the build up to the Iraq war about forging the evidence of WMDs in Iraq? I don't see how that is similar to NK. And you also have a totally enslaved and suffering population, unlike in Iraq. And if NK would be "freed", it would most likely eventually fall under South Korea's jurisdiction. 

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7 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Wasn't the build up to the Iraq war about forging the evidence of WMDs in Iraq? I don't see how that is similar to NK. And you also have a totally enslaved and suffering population, unlike in Iraq. And if NK would be "freed", it would most likely eventually fall under South Korea's jurisdiction. 

They're starving.

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Just now, ChaosRose said:

They're starving.

I know. 

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Just now, FLOMBIE said:

Wasn't the build up to the Iraq war about forging the evidence of WMDs in Iraq? I don't see how that is similar to NK.

In the buildup to Iraq we had many "defectors" telling us stories of Saddam's brutality and WMD capability

Just now, FLOMBIE said:

And you also have a totally enslaved and suffering population, unlike in Iraq.

We heard that same argument about Iraq and the people were suffering , not quite like they have since we deposed Saddam though. 

Just now, FLOMBIE said:

And if NK would be "freed", it would most likely eventually fall under South Korea's jurisdiction. 

We also heard that Iraqis would be so stoked about freedom they would flood the streets and begin their own democracy. 

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

In the buildup to Iraq we had many "defectors" telling us stories of Saddam's brutality and WMD capability

We heard that same argument about Iraq and the people were suffering , not quite like they have since we deposed Saddam though. 

We also heard that Iraqis would be so stoked about freedom they would flood the streets and begin their own democracy. 

But we have proof that NK  has working nuclear warheads and are currently working on intercontinental missiles. The defectors talk about the rest the regime does. And having talked to some of these defectors personally, I do believe them. 

That wasn't nearly similar. And Saddam and his family did a lot of atrocious things to their population. It's not like it was all lies, though there are some really dodgy stories, I agree. 

A lot of them were! The country fell into a civil war with different groups struggling for power. You may blame Islam there as well, as well as the tribal culture, which is very hard to adapt to a democracy. Thankfully Nk doesn't have both. 

I see two very different scenarios here. Especially because it would have to end in a unified Korea. I have experienced the reunification of a country once before, and I would gladly experience it again. Especially since I found my second home in South Korea. 

 

Edited by FLOMBIE
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If there is just that tiny little hint of influences from ye olde enemy that brought about the fall of the Kim Dynasty; it is most assuredly another Dynastic order of despots that will replace them in PyongYang ... they take their Vendettas very very seriously in Korea, North or South ...
 

Quote

 

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Just now, FLOMBIE said:

But we have proof that NK  has working nuclear warheads and are currently working on intercontinental missiles.

Part of where im torn is im not entirely sure thats any of our business. Nor am I sure that he isnt right to arm himself to his fullest ability when you look at our actions across the globe in the last 20 years or so. 

Just now, FLOMBIE said:

I see to very different scenarios here. Especially because it would have to end in a unified Korea. I have experienced the reunification of a country once before, and I would gladly experience it again. Especially since I found my second home in South Korea. 

I agree they are different, but our government's actions are somewhat similiar. Im just looking at it from a fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me kind of perspective. 

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Just now, Farmer77 said:

Part of where im torn is im not entirely sure thats any of our business. Nor am I sure that he isnt right to arm himself to his fullest ability when you look at our actions across the globe in the last 20 years or so. 

I agree they are different, but our government's actions are somewhat similiar. Im just looking at it from a fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me kind of perspective. 

If a country has nuclear weapons, it's everyone's business. Especially if they are at a constant war with another nation and constantly give official statements they would eradicate another.

I don't know about that, as I am not American. I might have a completely different perspective on that.

But hey, I don't really ask for a war here. North and South Korea are tiny. It would always hit both, and I have no doubt that Kimmi-boy will fire everything he got on Seoul as a last resort. But I want the North Koreans to be just as free as their southern brothers and sisters. It's a very complicated situation. But comparing it to the Iraq situation doesn't fit, if you ask me. 

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The Americana in the issue here is that IF it was some other World Power saying that the US will pummel Kim and his people to dust under a pillar of Nuclear Storm, then Kim will laugh it off and puff and huff his little dance and twirl like he always does ... BUT if it was Sparky his self that makes those comments his self, then its a whole different ball game ... its everything and the kitchen sink at Seoul ... just 'cause ... 

~

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Well SAddam's program (which turned out to be mostly non-existent and remnants of the pre-1991 war) was only hinted at while Kim's is loudly demonstrated. Don't know if I would say Kim is right as I think he is monstrous and would like to see him gone but I would say he is rational, Kim clings to nuclear capability as his cornerstone of regime survival, being surrounded by strong countries and no true allies, and his conventional military in spite of its size increasingly obsolete, not enough food/fuel to train much less fight for significant period, and his troops malnourished, poorly supplied (possible exception of his large special operations component.) Not much prospect of giving up the nuclear program voluntarily, I think, that is the final insurance, if he goes he threaten to take as many with him as possible.

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He was groomed from birth for the big boom ... in other words ...

~

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Posted (edited)

For a leader that is constantly surrounded by the military, then why has no one took him out if this defector is to be believed.

Edited by A rather obscure Bassoon
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On 14/08/2017 at 10:15 AM, ChaosRose said:

They're starving.

So is Kim's Army...

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On 9/11/2017 at 9:29 PM, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

For a leader that is constantly surrounded by the military, then why has no one took him out if this defector is to be believed.

If they do it will cause infighting and the people will revolt. 

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5 hours ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

If they do it will cause infighting and the people will revolt. 

Good, the total collapse of NK wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

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On 8/14/2017 at 10:50 AM, Farmer77 said:

In the buildup to Iraq we had many "defectors" telling us stories of Saddam's brutality and WMD capability

We heard that same argument about Iraq and the people were suffering , not quite like they have since we deposed Saddam though. 

We also heard that Iraqis would be so stoked about freedom they would flood the streets and begin their own democracy. 

1.  Iraq and NK have little or nothing in common as NK is lobbing missiles at our allies and threatening the continental US.  Also, NK has nuclear weapons and has exploded thme several times.  I am surprised you aren't aware of this fact or do you think that was all faked to fool you?

2.  Iraq had WMD's as Saddam  used them several times on both Iran and his own population.  To pretend he never had WMD's is childish art best.  Did he have them when Bush II invaded.  Seem as if that is a no.

3.   Why do you think we are invading NK?  Has that EVER been proposed?  Are we building up troops in the area?   I'm confused as to what you find so similar?

4.  I'd be interested to know what your proposal is for handling the situation.  Hillary says we should keep doing what her husband  and Obama did, is that your recommendation and if so, why as those policies seem to have done nothing but make NK stronger.

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