The Advantages of Brexit

[eugenonegin]

In this thread we will discuss the advantages we will enjoy when leaving the EU.Obviously, we have not yet left, but negotiations are well ahead and we are almost halfway into the exit process.

[Unusual Tournament]

a tad premature talking about advantages when the Brexit landscape is still forming.

[FLOMBIE]

And what about the disadvantages?

[Grey Area]

Can we just rename the thread to alibingo's Brexit rant MKII?

[Golden Duck]

It will make Australia's participation in Eurovision even more bizarre

[Timothy]

19 hours ago, eugeneonegin said:

In this thread we will discuss the advantages we will enjoy when leaving the EU.Obviously, we have not yet left, but negotiations are well ahead and we are almost halfway into the exit process.

What are the advantages? 

[Ozymandias]

The real negotiations have not even started and the so-called advantages are all aspirational. 

If the UK could not make a success out of 45 years of marriage with Europe - its natural spouse - how does it think it can make a more beneficial relationship with the rest of the world?

Does it believe it can become like an economic sultan with a harem of other countries at its command? That is not how the world works in the modern era. International relations are about give and take, mutual respect and benefit, and compromise.

The UK's 45 year relationship with the European Union that is now ending in divorce shows that Britain cannot, or will not, relate on equal terms. This is a retrograde step by Britain and not very well thought out. 

 

[EBE Hybrid]

I think one of the advantages of the 2016 Brexit referendum is that now, in 2017, without the media hype suggesting that Brexit was almost entirely about "immigrants taking British jobs and taking money from the NHS" we now have a better idea about the true ecconomic implications of Brexit. With that in mind and given the narrow majority by which the referendum was passed, I'm sure that there are a very great number of people who would welcome a second E.U. referendum now that they are better informed.

Edited August 17, 2017 by EBE Hybrid

[stevewinn]

53 minutes ago, EBE Hybrid said:

I think one of the advantages of the 2016 Brexit referendum is that now, in 2017, without the media hype suggesting that Brexit was almost entirely about "immigrants taking British jobs and taking money from the NHS" we now have a better idea about the true ecconomic implications of Brexit. With that in mind and given the narrow majority by which the referendum was passed, I'm sure that there are a very great number of people who would welcome a second E.U. referendum now that they are better informed.

How are people better informed, this is just double speak for those who where on the losing side to try and overturn the democratic process.

If people where truly better informed they'd be for leaving the EU. How any informed person can agree that the UK should continue to hand over sovereignty and subject its citizens to the foreign rule of a foreign political institution that increasingly doesn't serve the interests of all its members, especially a country with such a standing, prestige and institutions as the United Kingdom,  the EU fails to work for us in the same way the one size fits all euro doesn't work for all its members.

The only argument the Remain side have is Trade, when they see the figure of 35% to 48% of UK Trade is with the EU they wrongly think this translates to 35% to 48% of the British economy. Its false, over 93% of the British economy is here within the United Kingdom. When it comes to Trade (globally) only 11% of British Businesses export, less than 4.6% export to the EU. So, when we discuss throwing away our sovereignty and all that entails, handing over our fishing grounds we are doing it just so the 4.6% of 11% of exporters can trade with the EU tariff free.

Its a rotten deal when you consider we have to subject the entire UK economy and 89% of British businesses who DONT export or have dealings with the EU to comply with EU regulations and Laws. and on top of that we pay £12Billion a year for the privilege to trade so its not free trade.

The United States is our single biggest trading partner them being non-eu members and the fact we don't have a trade deal with them hasn't stopped them being our number one trade partner; Outside of the EU our imports from America would be cheaper, and cheaper again if we did strike a trade deal with the US, outside the EU we would no longer be applying the EU external tariff. - shock horror people as a consumer nation importing more than we export it would suit the UK economy far better, world trade prices are lower than those EU's single market. We are for example applying 20% on imported sugar, to protect EU industry meanwhile Tate and Lyle here in the UK are suffering. were applying 4.1% Tariff on Leather goods, Shoes, Clothing to protect the leather industry in Italy and Belgium. the world price average on the same goods is 1%. We have to apply 200% tariff on Garlic to protect EU Garlic growers. where applying a 33% tariff on dairy products and the list goes on and on.

The UK runs a trade surplus with the entire world, except for the EU were we run a trade deficit and we have done since 1999.

I've sailed this world more times than Phileas Fogg and others will support me when i say, believe me there's a world out their beyond the EU, and it's right and proper that the UK returns to its natural position as a outward looking global trading nation. Charles De Gaulle had it right when he vetoed our EU membership bid twice first in 1963 & 1967 when he said; "The British Attitude was one of global ambition, Britain was incompatible with the common market, England in effect is insular, she is maritime, she is linked through her exchanges, her markets, her supply lines to the most diverse and often the most distant countries; she pursues essentially industrial and commercial activities, and only slight agricultural ones. She has in all her doings very marked and very original habits and traditions. In short, the nature, the structure, the very situation that are England’s differ profoundly from those of the continentals.”

 

 

 

 

[Ozymandias]

In the modern world trade and sovereignty are inextricably linked. No country, however great, is trully independent anymore. Britain trades with the world through the EU. It now wants to dismantle and regress 45 years of integration in order to replace it all with better arrangements with the whole world that will be forged over the next 5 years or so. Good luck with that.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Ozymandias

[Grey Area]

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

In the modern world trade and sovereignty are inextricably linked. No country, however great, is trully independent anymore. Britain trades with the world through the EU. It now wants to dismantle and regress 45 years of integration in order to replace it all with better arrangements with the whole world that will be forged over the next 5 years or so. Good luck with that.

So explain yourself, what is it we are regressing? 

Blanket statements are easy, all the brexit threads are full of them, so pinpoint the regressions.

[keithisco]

5 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

In the modern world trade and sovereignty are inextricably linked. No country, however great, is trully independent anymore. Britain trades with the world through the EU. It now wants to dismantle and regress 45 years of integration in order to replace it all with better arrangements with the whole world that will be forged over the next 5 years or so. Good luck with that.

Did you not read Stevewinns post#9??...I mean, not even one sentence of it? It addresses all of your negativity and keeps on-topic.

[itsnotoutthere]

7 hours ago, stevewinn said:

How are people better informed, this is just double speak for those who where on the losing side to try and overturn the democratic process.

If people where truly better informed they'd be for leaving the EU. How any informed person can agree that the UK should continue to hand over sovereignty and subject its citizens to the foreign rule of a foreign political institution that increasingly doesn't serve the interests of all its members, especially a country with such a standing, prestige and institutions as the United Kingdom,  the EU fails to work for us in the same way the one size fits all euro doesn't work for all its members.

The only argument the Remain side have is Trade, when they see the figure of 35% to 48% of UK Trade is with the EU they wrongly think this translates to 35% to 48% of the British economy. Its false, over 93% of the British economy is here within the United Kingdom. When it comes to Trade (globally) only 11% of British Businesses export, less than 4.6% export to the EU. So, when we discuss throwing away our sovereignty and all that entails, handing over our fishing grounds we are doing it just so the 4.6% of 11% of exporters can trade with the EU tariff free.

Its a rotten deal when you consider we have to subject the entire UK economy and 89% of British businesses who DONT export or have dealings with the EU to comply with EU regulations and Laws. and on top of that we pay £12Billion a year for the privilege to trade so its not free trade.

The United States is our single biggest trading partner them being non-eu members and the fact we don't have a trade deal with them hasn't stopped them being our number one trade partner; Outside of the EU our imports from America would be cheaper, and cheaper again if we did strike a trade deal with the US, outside the EU we would no longer be applying the EU external tariff. - shock horror people as a consumer nation importing more than we export it would suit the UK economy far better, world trade prices are lower than those EU's single market. We are for example applying 20% on imported sugar, to protect EU industry meanwhile Tate and Lyle here in the UK are suffering. were applying 4.1% Tariff on Leather goods, Shoes, Clothing to protect the leather industry in Italy and Belgium. the world price average on the same goods is 1%. We have to apply 200% tariff on Garlic to protect EU Garlic growers. where applying a 33% tariff on dairy products and the list goes on and on.

The UK runs a trade surplus with the entire world, except for the EU were we run a trade deficit and we have done since 1999.

I've sailed this world more times than Phileas Fogg and others will support me when i say, believe me there's a world out their beyond the EU, and it's right and proper that the UK returns to its natural position as a outward looking global trading nation. Charles De Gaulle had it right when he vetoed our EU membership bid twice first in 1963 & 1967 when he said; "The British Attitude was one of global ambition, Britain was incompatible with the common market, England in effect is insular, she is maritime, she is linked through her exchanges, her markets, her supply lines to the most diverse and often the most distant countries; she pursues essentially industrial and commercial activities, and only slight agricultural ones. She has in all her doings very marked and very original habits and traditions. In short, the nature, the structure, the very situation that are England’s differ profoundly from those of the continentals.”

 

 

 

 

Nailed it.

[EBE Hybrid]

8 hours ago, stevewinn said:

How are people better informed, this is just double speak for those who where on the losing side to try and overturn the democratic process.

If people where truly better informed they'd be for leaving the EU. How any informed person can agree that the UK should continue to hand over sovereignty and subject its citizens to the foreign rule of a foreign political institution that increasingly doesn't serve the interests of all its members, especially a country with such a standing, prestige and institutions as the United Kingdom,  the EU fails to work for us in the same way the one size fits all euro doesn't work for all its members.

The only argument the Remain side have is Trade, when they see the figure of 35% to 48% of UK Trade is with the EU they wrongly think this translates to 35% to 48% of the British economy. Its false, over 93% of the British economy is here within the United Kingdom. When it comes to Trade (globally) only 11% of British Businesses export, less than 4.6% export to the EU. So, when we discuss throwing away our sovereignty and all that entails, handing over our fishing grounds we are doing it just so the 4.6% of 11% of exporters can trade with the EU tariff free.

Its a rotten deal when you consider we have to subject the entire UK economy and 89% of British businesses who DONT export or have dealings with the EU to comply with EU regulations and Laws. and on top of that we pay £12Billion a year for the privilege to trade so its not free trade.

The United States is our single biggest trading partner them being non-eu members and the fact we don't have a trade deal with them hasn't stopped them being our number one trade partner; Outside of the EU our imports from America would be cheaper, and cheaper again if we did strike a trade deal with the US, outside the EU we would no longer be applying the EU external tariff. - shock horror people as a consumer nation importing more than we export it would suit the UK economy far better, world trade prices are lower than those EU's single market. We are for example applying 20% on imported sugar, to protect EU industry meanwhile Tate and Lyle here in the UK are suffering. were applying 4.1% Tariff on Leather goods, Shoes, Clothing to protect the leather industry in Italy and Belgium. the world price average on the same goods is 1%. We have to apply 200% tariff on Garlic to protect EU Garlic growers. where applying a 33% tariff on dairy products and the list goes on and on.

The UK runs a trade surplus with the entire world, except for the EU were we run a trade deficit and we have done since 1999.

I've sailed this world more times than Phileas Fogg and others will support me when i say, believe me there's a world out their beyond the EU, and it's right and proper that the UK returns to its natural position as a outward looking global trading nation. Charles De Gaulle had it right when he vetoed our EU membership bid twice first in 1963 & 1967 when he said; "The British Attitude was one of global ambition, Britain was incompatible with the common market, England in effect is insular, she is maritime, she is linked through her exchanges, her markets, her supply lines to the most diverse and often the most distant countries; she pursues essentially industrial and commercial activities, and only slight agricultural ones. She has in all her doings very marked and very original habits and traditions. In short, the nature, the structure, the very situation that are England’s differ profoundly from those of the continentals.”

 

 

 

 

A powerful, compelling, informative and well researched post.

Whilst I have an enduring sense of national pride for Britains past achievments (a world beating Navy that mantained order, logistics and infrastructure for our Empire, lead the world into the industrial age, given the world television, lead the world in aviation development (until the unforgivable demise of the TSR2!)), but I can't help but expect that the 21st century will lead to a more unified Europe, no longer under the control of the likes of Junkers, but becoming a fully intergrated democeracy with a properly elected government and if we're not part of it we'll have no influence and won't benefit.

I get it, that if Texas left the USA, the average Texan may have a better quality of life than the average American, but on the other hand i'm sure that their are no shortage of Americans who would be worse off if their home states were to become independant.

The whole Europe thing is a bit like Marmite and polarizes opinion

[itsnotoutthere]

18 hours ago, EBE Hybrid said:

A powerful, compelling, informative and well researched post.

Whilst I have an enduring sense of national pride for Britains past achievments (a world beating Navy that mantained order, logistics and infrastructure for our Empire, lead the world into the industrial age, given the world television, lead the world in aviation development (until the unforgivable demise of the TSR2!)), but I can't help but expect that the 21st century will lead to a more unified Europe, no longer under the control of the likes of Junkers, but becoming a fully intergrated democeracy with a properly elected government and if we're not part of it we'll have no influence and won't benefit.

I get it, that if Texas left the USA, the average Texan may have a better quality of life than the average American, but on the other hand i'm sure that their are no shortage of Americans who would be worse off if their home states were to become independant.

The whole Europe thing is a bit like Marmite and polarizes opinion

The bolded should read ...'The whole European Union thing is a bit like Marmite and polarizes opinion'

We are all Europeans and leaving the E.U. won't change that.